The Seven Types of Atheism

[wil]

And I know there is a God.

It is interesting. Using magic it has always interested me how folks want simple answers, or sometimes extremely complex answers for what they can't explain or don't understand.

And how 'it's magic' can sometimes fit the bill when folks see the impossible happen. Where for me, one who has performed magic, one who has baffled and amazed with trickery and/or skill... When I watch a magician I either choose to process of elimination suss it out, or sometimes quickly see one of many common ruses used, or simply sit back and enjoy the show.

I've gone thru all those stages in life now it appears, and the one answer I just don't buy is, 'it's magic'

https://strangenotions.com/why-does-the-universe-exist-atheist-sean-carroll-answers/

 

[RJM]

It is interesting. Using magic it has always interested me how folks want simple answers, or sometimes extremely complex answers for what they can't explain or don't understand.

And how 'it's magic' can sometimes fit the bill when folks see the impossible happen. Where for me, one who has performed magic, one who has baffled and amazed with trickery and/or skill... When I watch a magician I either choose to process of elimination suss it out, or sometimes quickly see one of many common ruses used, or simply sit back and enjoy the show.

I've gone thru all those stages in life now it appears, and the one answer I just don't buy is, 'it's magic'

https://strangenotions.com/why-does-the-universe-exist-atheist-sean-carroll-answers/

I didn't say magic. Nor did I ask why. I said it's incredibly huge and wonderful and organised, and anyone who wants to believe that because our science is always learning more about the mechanism governing how it happened obviously therefore means that it happened itself from nothing -- is entitled to their own opinion. As I am to mine.

The problem is we are so used to hearing huge numbers that we no longer appreciate how huge they really are, imo. Sean Carol is entitled to his opinions too. What makes him the authority? Believing in God does not make me a superstitious idiot.

 

[wil]

I don't believe I said that.

Believing in God does not make me a superstitious idiot.

But as you said, we all have a right to our opinions, beliefs, understandings and observations.

I simply express what I have seen/experienced and thoughts/conclusions.

Surely you are not asking me to quit being honest?

 

[RJM]

Implication: belief in higher powers = a silly belief in magic.

But God reveals how it's done, incredible cosmic and natural complexity generated by just a very few laws and forces -- all self sustaining organisation of 'energy' according to laws and forces born from a point infinitely smaller than an atomic nucleus. Becoming a universe. The universe is big. There's no solidity. Only organised energy. Is that magic?

Humility.

Sean Carol is just another arrogant You Tube physicist showing off his own cleverness, imo. Who asked him 'why'? It wasnt me. That's the ultimate. What makes Carol's opinion so valuable? He's just another new atheist hero worshipped by his own adoring acolytes, imo.

But thanks at least for refraining from putting either loudmouth Lawrence Krauss or the hugely irritating Brian Cox on the stage, lol.

edited ...

 

[Bhaktajan II]

belief ...
higher powers
a silly belief in magic.
...incredible cosmic and
natural complexity ...
few laws and forces ...
organisation of 'energy' ...
atomic nucleus. ... a universe.

I am getting indignant!

Why is the proclamation: "God is a Person" make one think aloud how God cannot be a Person"?

Do we think that "No. God can't be a person" because "Person-hood" comes long after billions of years of primordial evolution.

I am relaying that Personality is the primordial impetus for creation and being.

Personality came before:
belief ...
higher powers
a silly belief in magic.
...incredible cosmic and
natural complexity ...
few laws and forces ...
organisation of 'energy' ...
atomic nucleus. ... a universe.

Un-Like the question "which came first the chicken or the egg"...

"which came first, Godhead's personality entoto, or powers cosmic complexity laws forces organisation atoms a universe"?


The mystery behind existence is that God is his own personality and hence all other "things" are in RELATIONSHIP TO THAT PERSON ---either Face to Face reciprocal inter-personal ways with God etc etc ---or we are spirit souls in the Material World experiencing "SEPARATION" whilst sojourning in all manner of phantasmagorical variety of ways...birth after birth...repeating the same pastimes and seeking the same goals as in the last birth.

There is a "Person" at the nucleus of everyone's experience.

Material World [inert elements fluxing in temporal duality set of rules] ---but it is the beholder that is doing the beholding from myriads of POVs.

If ya ain't seeking Moksha, then ya'll just want to know what's next on the menu to sample.

God is a Personality of his own ---and you know what God is famous for, those are his traits and souls in the material world are outside the circle.

God is the supersoul, our souls are minuscule sparks of God's bodily effulgence.

 

[RJM]

I am getting indignant!

Why is the proclamation: God is a Person.

Personality came before:
belief ...
higher powers
a silly belief in magic.
...incredible cosmic and
natural complexity ...
few laws and forces ...
organisation of 'energy' ...
atomic nucleus. ... a universe.

Un-Like the question "which came first the chicken or the egg"...

"which came first, Godhead's personality entoto, or powers cosmic complexity laws forces organisation atoms a universe"?


The mystery behind existence is that God is his own personality and hence all other "things" are in RELATIONSHIP TO THAT PERSON ---either Face to Face reciprocal inter-personal ways with God etc etc ---or we are spirit souls in the Material World experiencing "SEPARATION" whilst sojourning in all manner of phantasmagorical variety of ways...birth after birth...repeating the same pastimes and seeking the same goals as in the last birth.

There is a "Person" at the nucleus of everyone's experience.

Material World [inert elements fluxing in temporal duality set of rules] ---but it is the beholder that is doing the beholding from myriads of POVs.

If ya ain't seeking Moksha, then ya'll just want to know what's next on the menu to sample.

God is a Personality of his own ---and you know what God is famous for, those are his traits and souls in the material world are outside the circle.

God is the supersoul, our souls are minuscule sparks of God's bodily effulgence.

Yes. God is personal. But that is a later extension. First the acceptance that God exists. Then the never-ending and often self-serving (not you) theological discussions filling libraries with words arguing and insisting what people think God should be.

Figurehead = a person who is head of a group, company, etc., in title but actually has no real authority or responsibility: Most modern kings and queens are figureheads.

Godhead = a person that is none other then the personage of God.



There is a always a personality behind the scene:
"The God is a Person Principle"
["Why Atheistic Philosophers can't deny that there is always a personality behind the scene"]:

Q. Who is the personification of the American Dollar Bill?
A. George Washington.

Q. Who is the Living Personification of the American Dollar Bill?
A. Trump.

Q. Who is the personification of the State of New York'?
A. Cuomo

Q. Who is the personification of one of the many regional Counties of New York State?
A. The County Executive.

Q. Who is the personification of one of the many Congressional Districts of New York State?
A. The Congressman/State Representative.

Q. Who is the personification of New York City?
A. The Mayor Belasio.

Q. Who is the personification of one of the many Districts of New York City?
A. The Councilman/Ombudsman.

Q. Who is the personification of any 'Block and Lot' tax-parcel of land?
A. The title barer (The Land owner).

Q. Who is the personification of the any Apartment building?
A. "The Landlord".

Q. Who is the personification of any apartment?
A. The tenant.

Q. Who is the personification of the room with the football and the many toy Trains?
A. One of the male children.

Q. Who is the personification of nursery room?
A. The Baby.

Q. Who is the person reading this named Cino?
A. Your own person.

The point of my illustration is:
"Without the presence of the persona, all paraphernalia is without meaning nor purpose for existing"

I don't think New York City or the dollar bill need personification. I didn't read all the rest of your examples ...

 

[wil]

Anthrpomorphism, its what's for dinner.

 

[wil]

BTW, I believe in magic, I've seen it performed it, and know its potential and predictable effect.

I also believe in Santa Claus, the spirit, the joy, the reality.

And I only believe in one less God than most folk. I don't deny the existence of G!d, I just don't believe in the God most folks argue about on a regular basis.

How many significant different religions? How many nuanced sects and denominations and beliefs within them? Ask a hundred folks and I'll get a hundred opinions on what I should believe or disbelieve.

 

[RJM]

BTW, I believe in magic, I've seen it performed it, and know its potential and predictable effect.

I also believe in Santa Claus, the spirit, the joy, the reality.

And I only believe in one less God than most folk. I don't deny the existence of G!d, I just don't believe in the God most folks argue about on a regular basis.

How many significant different religions? How many nuanced sects and denominations and beliefs within them? Ask a hundred folks and I'll get a hundred opinions on what I should believe or disbelieve.

Well there's a bit of a difference between not accepting the 'God most folks argue about on a regular basis' -- including the type of scripture literalist God promulgated by religious zealots of all types -- and the acceptance of a supremely powerful (and yes, personal) heirarchy of spiritual forces and beings, always approaching closer to, but never quite reaching -- what's the right word to use -- ok, let's just say God?

 

[wil]

ok, let's just say God?

I've got as far as that as a name for a collection of non personal principles of our universe. I believe current conventional thoughts concepts of G!d and or the ToE accurately contain the entirety of reality but are mans attempts for thousands of years.

 

[wil]

Couple decades ago when I returned to church it took me quite a while to be able to hear the word G!d without conjuring up the notions I was raised on. I see that problem in many that eject all religions today.

 

[RJM]

I've got as far as that as a name for a collection of non personal principles of our universe. I believe current conventional thoughts concepts of G!d and or the ToE accurately contain the entirety of reality but are mans attempts for thousands of years.

There's Go(o)d and (D)evil. they're just words? Obviously they cannot contain ' the entirety of reality'. I think spiritual truths go beyond words anyway? They are partly expressed in symbols: the cross, the yin/yang symbol, the quaballist sephorith, even the tarot (which I really dislike).

 

[Cino]

Those who do not know Krsna are in illusion, and so knowledge of Krsna is liberation, and ignorance of Him is bondage.

You must know him well, then. What's the old enchanter up to these days?

 

[RJM]

Couple decades ago when I returned to church it took me quite a while to be able to hear the word G!d without conjuring up the notions I was raised on. I see that problem in many that eject all religions today.

I often think that may be part of the reason.

But @wil to me science is proving the existence of God. Not the other way around? The more that comes out the more wonderfully organised it's shown to be. The debate is whether it happened itself out of nothing. That's the only debate left?

 

[Cino]

The point of my illustration is:
"Without the presence of the persona, all paraphernalia is without meaning nor purpose for existing"

Yes, but think of all the possibilities!

 

[RJM]

You must know him well, then. What's the old enchanter up to these days?

If He touches you for an instant, such power will flow into you that your whole reality will be changed. The effects of that touch will go on and far beyond anything you could dream or imagine. You will never forget it. And you will understand why you could not handle more than a touch. Of such love. But He must be approached in humility or even desperation.

He won't dance to satisfy anyone's curiosity. That's what all scriptures teach.

It's all been said before.

edited ...

 

[Cino]

I would say believe or don't believe it makes no difference one way or the other for we are only minds experiencing something.

Not sure about the "only". I feel we are at least hearts and minds.

 

[RJM]

@wil. Sorry i have just read this article properly, and I understand it is not supporting Carroll. Apologies:

https://strangenotions.com/why-does-the-universe-exist-atheist-sean-carroll-answers/

 

[Cino]

God is the supersoul, our souls are minuscule sparks of God's bodily effulgence.

I get all that. I really do.

And yet, all that said, I am comfortable stating that there is nobody behind all the veils of ignorance.

 

[Cino]

If He touches you for an instant, such power will flow into you that your whole reality will be changed. The effects of that touch will go on and far beyond anything you could dream or imagine. You will never forget it. And you will understand why you could not survive more than a touch. Of that love. But He must be approached in humility or even desperation.

He won't dance to satisfy anyone's curiosity. That's what all scriptures teach.

It's all been said before.

edited ...

I know. I died in that sense. I was not curious, I desperately needed the certainty. And I got it. It just wasn't what I expected.