Metaphysics of abundance

wil said:
Idk the reference
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He mentions cracking a nut, in there somewhere. It's what I believe too: that the words of scripture are like the shell of a nut. They preserve the essence of truth that can't really be expressed in words. It's one reason I don't think scripture can be changed to suit contemporary values.
wil said:
Me too
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He is a genuinely spiritual person, talking about his own journey, imo. There's no sense of him being a career preacher. There are many ways of trying to express spiritual ideas and laws, different words, but they all lead the same way and away from bigotry and intolerance in the name of religion?
wil said:
Nature of a protestant church. He takes what is written (or said a long time ago) and assists folks in understanding how it is applicable to their lives today.
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But this is where there can be problems. For instance where he quotes Jesus as saying: "It is not I but the Father that is in me that does these works" what Jesus really said was: "The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me." There is a difference there. Still, as you say, it shouldn't be a nitpicking exercise. It's about the overall essence of his talks.

In the end there is a bit too much 'God is (only) within' for me but as you say there are many people listening to him who are drawn to God by non-dualistic thought who would not otherwise have any interest or exposure to 'spiritual thought'?
 
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RJM Corbet said:
In the end there is a bit too much 'God is (only) within'
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Intereating observation...I believe he is much more G!d is all their is, but the only way to access is to go within, through the Christ consciousness
RJM Corbet said:
But this is where there can be problems. For instance where he quotes Jesus as saying: "It is not I but the Father that is in me that does these works" what Jesus really said was: "The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me." There is a difference there.
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Pick a bible, any bible, I can't find his exact quote or yours
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 14:10
There is lots of differences
 
wil said:
Intereating observation...I believe he is much more G!d is all their is, but the only way to access is to go within, through the Christ consciousness


Pick a bible, any bible, I can't find his exact quote or yours
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 14:10
There is lots of differences
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John 10:25 is the one I used.

But the whole passage is in the context of the Jews wanting to stone Jesus for claiming equality with God because he said: 'I and the Father are one.' He replied: 'Is it not written in the scripture that 'Ye are gods'?

So Butch's use of the quote is in that sense. No problem really. As you say, he also makes clear that God is all around: the energies are there but we are unable to accept them.

But Jesus was the Christ. It is the parable of the good shepherd. That's the passage. There is a lot more in the passage than the idea that God is within. Imo. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10&version=NIV

From same passage that you link, John 14, Jesus also says:

6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Its when the 'God is within' message becomes 'God can only be accessed from within' and that becomes the main message, that I have to take a step back. I don't know how to explain it. The awe of worship is lost?

Butch himself seems to exhibit some humility before the power of the almighty. I wonder if his listeners go away with that message of humility, though?

We're all different. I believe there's a time to dance but also a time to kneel before Almighty God. I've an idea even the use of the words may amuse some people?

(edited)
 
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It's not an argument or a criticism @wil. How dare I try to instruct anyone how to believe? Each to his own.
 
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I do think everyone who hears these talks comes away with something different. Some may even come away with a completely atheistic idea of 'the indwelling Christ' as a sort of psychological process to revealing the true power of the 'inner man' etc. It's not a belief that works for me.

To me The Christ is far more than that.

EDIT: The power of Christ is he reaches everyone on every level? It's a whole lot of words and so I'd feel uncomfortable out of my depth try to go on with this discussion about this talk by Butch.
 
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RJM Corbet said:
Some may even come away with a completely atheistic idea of 'the indwelling Christ' as a sort of psychological process to revealing the true power of the 'inner man' etc. It's not a belief that works for me.
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Nor me, but it does seem to be how New Thought views Christ, at least according to the entry re Christ in the MBD: 'This Christ, or perfect-man idea existing eternally in Divine ind, is the true, spiritual, higher self of every individual. Each of us has within him the Christ, just as Jesus had, and we must look within to recognize and realize our sonship, our divine origin and birth, even as He did.'

RJM Corbet said:
To me The Christ is far more than that.
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And to me.
 
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verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

....
 
Are you reading that literally, or as an example of Scriptural hyperbole?
 
Thomas said:
how New Thought views Christ, at least according to the entry re Christ in the MBD: 'This Christ, or perfect-man idea existing eternally in Divine ind, is the true, spiritual, higher self of every individual.
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I know. I was quite involved with what was once called the 'new age' movement, now re-named 'non-duality', before even the term 'new age' was used.

In those days it was the natural evolution of the 'spiritual' side of the great mental liberation of the 60's and 70's. It was the days of the Maharishi Yogi and Alan Watts and lots of others -- when a lot of western people got their first taste of eastern spirituality. It was a real liberation from the 50's concept of religion and what was possible, etc.

I don't know exactly how to express it. It was exciting and new and genuinely enlightening.

It seemed right in those days. Since then it has evolved. But no-one has really experienced the full meaning of 'spiritual pride' until they've spent a bit of time with the 'spiritual' non-dualism crowd.

NO reference to anyone here, all of whom have my honest respect.

EDIT: I do not feel it is what is coming from Butch either. I think he is real. But I don't know what other people hear when they listen to him.
 
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RJM Corbet said:
I do not feel it is what is coming from Butch either. I think he is real. But I don't know what other people hear when they listen to him.
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I'm sure his heart's in the right place. It's just a question of the metaphysical paradigm, and the influences that shape it.
 
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https://www.truthunity.net/mbd/christ
... Reveal yourself to yourself by affirming,
"I am the Christ, son of the living God."

I just can't bring myself to say that.

Compare this with the MBD rewriting of the Jesus prayer:
Jesus Christ, son of God, be merciful towards me, a sinner
Becomes:
Jesus Christ, Son of God, I AM That!

But God knows every sincere heart. If that is what works, no-one has the right to say: No, you have to do it my way. God doesn't care about the words. Just the soul. Imo

 
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RJM Corbet said:
@Thomas Thanks, I hadn't read that:
https://www.truthunity.net/mbd/christ
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I find it best to simply read it, and observe what resonates and what doesn't. Continue to click to the next definition thru the blue words... Each turn down the rabbit hole leads to more self exploration of your response to what your actual experiences in life with your readings from the catechism, maharishi mahesh yogi, the bible, Alan watts, this nhan han, paramahansa yogananda,Thomas Merton, Aquinas... The combination makes for a great flavoring in the soup of.life.
 
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