Salvation and Belief

[muhammad_isa]

I gave the context. It was a Sermon (The Sermon on the Mount) He was addressing either just His disciples or "the multitude/crowds" - the text seems unclear) Thus He was giving a series of teachings/instructions. Do not judge lest ye be judged.

In he King James version of the Bible the text reads:

• For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:

• and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The wiki article on this verse says:

This verse simply states that he who judges will himself be judged. If you impose standards upon others, those same standards will be applied to you
...
Ulrich Luz advances the explanation that this verse states that if you search to find faults with others, that God will then search to find fault with you, and since all humans are infinitely flawed you would then easily be condemned

Happy with that?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Why? I have expounded/explained in great detail what my understanding of Grace is. Both on this thread and on another titled Grace". You constantly ask questions and assert things which are countered by my replies..

Oh well .. I'm sorry that I can't grasp what you are talking about .. thanks for the discourse

A bit like Brexit.
EU: how can we ensure free-trade over the Irish Border without the backstop?
Boris: well, we won't be making any customs checks .. will you?
EU: If we have no agreement, then we have no choice
......that's why we don't want a no-deal
Boris: well remove the backstop then
EU: until we have sorted out a trade agreement, we can't do that

 

[CobblersApprentice]

"Judge not lest ye be judged" NT Gospels.

The best way is not difficult
It only excludes picking and choosing
Once you stop loving and hating
It will enlighten itself.

(First lines of "Hsin Hsin Ming" or "Faith in Mind")

Some would see both of the above quotes as belonging to the same family tree. One, perhaps "personal", the second "philosophical".

One, the direct "Word of God", the second mere opinion.

I believe the two blend.

(If the Moderators wish to move this, please do. I feel it is relevant to this thread)

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Some would see both of the above quotes as belonging to the same family tree. One, perhaps "personal", the second "philosophical".

One, the direct "Word of God", the second mere opinion.
I believe the two blend.

I'm sure they do.
I don't see what that has got to do with grace..
As the EU would say, I call it cherry-picking.

In my eyes you are being disingenuous. Deliberately so, knowingly so

I can assure you that I'm not.
My mastery of language is obviously not as good as yours .. or perhaps you are using the term "grace" in a specific way.

From your thread on "grace":

For me, Grace is that in which I "live and move and have my being". If that sounds very "mystical" or whatever, I would just say that I am a very vulnerable person. And very secular. I do not move a few feet above the ground....

I would contrast my own "way" with what I would see as a way of understanding Grace that is grounded in a strict duality. Of a "divinity" that offers it, where terms are attached, conditions set, where the believer in effect lives a life seeking a "pass mark", however conceived.
...
for me Grace, Reality-as-is, God, are interchangeable words, and each ultimately incomprehensible.

Makes no sense to me.
..so grace means G-d? G-d is reality? Whose reality?

Wait a moment .. G-d is the Most Gracious..
Is that what you refer to?

I still don't see how somebody can rely on the "grace of G-d", but follow doctrine that is unreliable or not even claiming to be from G-d.
This is where you and I differ. You equate G-d with reality/nature, rather than the author (i.e. Creator) of what we see around us. Is that where my confusion arises? Perhaps..

 

[CobblersApprentice]

"Judge not lest ye be judged" NT Gospels.

The best way is not difficult
It only excludes picking and choosing
Once you stop loving and hating
It will enlighten itself.

(First lines of "Hsin Hsin Ming" or "Faith in Mind")

Some would see both of the above quotes as belonging to the same family tree. One, perhaps "personal", the second "philosophical".

One, the direct "Word of God", the second mere opinion.

I believe the two blend.

(If the Moderators wish to move this, please do. I feel it is relevant to this thread)

EDIT:-I shall open a new thread on another section of the forum.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

No warranty, just trial and error

 

[muhammad_isa]

..It does seem barely credible to me that having had what you have called a Christian upbringing and education, that you have then actually molded yourself upon the NT version of the Pharisee. No offence meant. But you choose Law over Mercy and Grace.

Yes, I indeed did have a Christian upbringing. My mother passed away recently and I buried her in the local churchyard. I was a choir boy in an Anglican church in Bournemouth, and went to the local grammar school. More luck than anything else.
RE was of good quality, but different than today .. we called it Divinity. It was purely about the Christian Bible.

..so there you have it

 

[CobblersApprentice]

..so there you have it

I do!