About Homosexuality and Religion

I think you've missed my point: your 'ironies' are misdirected.
 
Thomas said:
Yes, exactly. The sin of S&G was not that of the love of two people of the same gender. It's was more akin to rape: "... the men of the city beset the house both young and old, all the people together. And they called Lot, and said to him: Where are the men that came in to thee at night? bring them out hither that we may know them... " (Genesis 19:4-5).

Note that Lot was willing to hand over his two virgin daughters to the mob (v8) ... go figure ...
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They were a pretty shabby bunch. Imo they were just asking for the nuke, lol
 
KnowSelf said:
Baptist are in staunch opposition regarding homosexuality as mentioned in the Bible, however, I am not so certain that homosexuality is a sin based upon the understanding homosexuality is not a choice toward compatible attraction. in truth I do not know, God's thought on this matter except for what is written in the Bible.
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No, Homosexuality is not a sin in of itself. As I understand it in the Bible what is prohibited is homosexuality intercourse. It is the same in my religion. Of course this means that homosexuals have a harder time than straight people concerning sex. We should have sympathy for them. In my religion sexual relations between any people not married to each other is prohibited. But we can marry each other and have sex. In my opinion people that have sex outside of marriage who are straight are more sinful than homosexuals that have sex outside of marriage. In the Baha'i Faith gay couples that come into our are not required to not live with each other are not supposed to have sex with each other in my understanding, but I may be wrong about that. In any case that is their own business. I am married to a gay person and have no prejudice towards gay people. We should not judge other people, and love them regardless.
 
Thomas said:
LOL, so wrong on so many levels! :D

One: Alluding to James' sexual orientation at all would suggest homophobia on this side of the pond.

Two: James was the sponsor of the project, not the translator, and there's no evidence nor suggestion that his sexual orientation had any bearing on the project whatsoever.

Three: As well as relationships with male courtiers, there are the many children born to his wife, and a mistress, so not really 'gay' in the 20th century sense, it cannot be argued he was 'in the closet' nor that his relations with women were simply to provide an heir and as 'cover' for his homosexuality.

Four: Whilst he shows remarkable public and private affection, that does not necessarily assert the affections were overtly sexual. James might well have been 'camp' (to retrofit another modern term), or he might have been such a predatory heterosexual that it didn't really matter if one wore trousers or a skirt.

Five: Our understanding of sexual orientation today means we should be careful about assuming convenient 'norms' when looking back on past lives. Looking at his exhortations against sodomy one could read the history in such a way to suggest that James — who never knew his father nor really his grandfather – was brought up in a severely dysfunctional household and could have been the victim of grooming and abuse by the much older Esmé Stewart, 1st Duke of Lennox! (Highly unlikely, I'll admit.) Or his relations with older men might simply be affections directed towards an absent father ...
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I don't know that much about James private life, but I found out recently out that I am descended from him.
 
Truthseeker9 said:
In my opinion people that have sex outside of marriage who are straight are more sinful than homosexuals that have sex outside of marriage.
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I agree with that because heterosexual people can get married before having sex but gay people cannot always get married in order to have sex.

Since sex is only allowed between a married man and woman in our religion, that puts gays in an impossible situation even if they are married. However, what people do in private is their private business. I do not consider it a serious sin because sex is not hurting anyone.
Truthseeker9 said:
We should not judge other people, and love them regardless.
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I agree.
 
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Trailblazer said:
Since sex is only allowed between a married man and woman in our religion, that puts gays in an impossible situation even if they are married. However, what people do in private is their private business. I do not consider it a serious sin because sex is not hurting anyone.
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Finding oneself in an impossible situation, as you put it - is that conducive to psychological well-being?
 
Finding oneself in an impossible situation, as you put it - is that conducive to psychological well-being?
Wise words
 
Cino said:
Finding oneself in an impossible situation, as you put it - is that conducive to psychological well-being?
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I have found myself in what seemed like an impossible situation many times in my life, but had it really been impossible I would not still be here.

To me, not being able to have sex is minor compared to so many other problems people face in life, but we are all different. To some people it might seem like the end of the world, and that shows what they value.

It's not an impossible situation. If someone wants to be a Baha'i they can still be homosexual, and what they do in private is only between them and God.

I believe that humans have the ability to hold sexual desires and behavior in check, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Many people just don't want to. It is not really that different from anything else in life. People want to do what they want to do, and it is not always aligned with God's laws. But breaking God's laws is the cause of innumerable societal problems, and the sexual laws are no different than any other laws. People don't want to confront that head on because it might mean they have to sacrifice something they want.

Is it good for our psychological well-being to have everything we want just because we want it? Is it good for society? Is it good for our spiritual well-being?
 
KnowSelf said:
Baptist are in staunch opposition regarding homosexuality as mentioned in the Bible, however, I am not so certain that homosexuality is a sin based upon the understanding homosexuality is not a choice toward compatible attraction. in truth I do not know, God's thought on this matter except for what is written in the Bible.
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I dont see why a supreme being would have any interest in people's sexuality. I suspect it's more to do with the attitudes of the Bible's original authors.
 
To create us as sexual creatures and have no interest in our sexuality ?

I think The Creator is interested in every aspect of creation - far more inerested than any of us and incomparably so.

How - or even if - The Creator "judges" is a different issue imo - but The Supreme, I believe, has a Supreme Interest in everything everywhere and is never disinterested.
 
Arif Ghamiq said:
To create us as sexual creatures and have no interest in our sexuality ?

I think The Creator is interested in every aspect of creation - far more inerested than any of us and incomparably so.

How - or even if - The Creator "judges" is a different issue imo - but The Supreme, I believe, has a Supreme Interest in everything everywhere and is never disinterested.
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But it's the act of judging which creates the problem here, and I still think that in this case it's humans rather than God making the judgement that homosexuality is "wrong".
 
I understand what you're saying - people speaking for "God" has and does create problems.

I only wish to point out that maybe just because "God" doesn't judge something as wrong doesn't necessarily mean "God" is disinterested or doesn't care - it is simply my belief, my opinion I'm sharing - that everything matters to "God" - in ways I can't understand I'm sure.
 
Arif Ghamiq said:
I understand what you're saying - people speaking for "God" has and does create problems.
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I do not know if you are a Muslim, so I do not want to make any assumptions...
However, if you are a Muslim, don't you think that Muhammad can speak for God, as God's Messenger?
What does the Qur'an say about homosexuality?
 
I am Muslim and I believe that The Qur'an (Recitation) is the words of Allah revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam as are many other things, however there are some now interpreting the Quranic story of the People of Lut/Lot in a similar way that some people are of the other two branches of the Abrahamic faiths are doing.

My personal understanding, at this point, is that I - as a Muslim - would be wrong for indulging in homosexuality.

I do not believe that I should demand or command that others live their lives and conform their opinions according to my belief system.

At the same time, I will not be compelled to conform my thoughts and my lifestyle according to the beliefs of others. I require no one to co-sign my thoughts, feelings and actions and I'll not be required to co-sign anyone elses.
 
So wil - do then believe that if there were a Creator "He/She/It" (however you would see it) would have no concern for "His/Her/Its" creation ?

I have heard (perhaps more than the average person) since youth that "God doesn't care" - I certainly ascribed to that belief for a good while, but I don't any more.

I do not believe Allah loves everybody or that Allah is love itself, but I do believe existence is "His" - all of it - and that "He" is far more concerned about it than anyone else.

I think it's humans who have a lack of interest & concern and that we project that apathy upon the Creator - another draw back of our seemingly unavoidable anthropromorphism imo
 
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Arif Ghamiq said:
Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam as are many other things, however there are some now interpreting the Quranic story of the People of Lut/Lot in a similar way that some people are of the other two branches of the Abrahamic faiths are doing.
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You mean like the prophet Ezekiel?
 
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