Finding the Garden of Eden and the City of GOD

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ShemTov

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firstly i am a canadian anglican and just barely anglican. i was not terribly spiritual or anything else.
so i was in quarantine with little to do but read and i came to wonder if GOD has not finally given us the scientific tools to finally find the garden etc.
it is catholic dogma that we are supposed to find it at GODs behest and jewish texts say the same plus they built a landmark [damascus gate] to point to the dwelling place of god. the kaaba is oriented so the descendents of adam can use it as a guide to find the garden again when they are allowed back in.

to me it would seem to be the thing to do with all of our technology and access to texts. has anyone actually tried? i would assume its generally thought of as a pointless exercise?

peace.
 
ShemTov said:
firstly i am a canadian anglican and just barely anglican.
...
the kaaba is oriented so the descendents of adam can use it as a guide to find the garden again when they are allowed back in.

to me it would seem to be the thing to do with all of our technology and access to texts. has anyone actually tried? i would assume its generally thought of as a pointless exercise?
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hi :)
I think the 'garden' is a spiritual concept. I don't think it's possible to
find a place in this world. We won't find the 'garden' without remembering AlmightyGod, as
we are weak, and are easily led away from it. i.e. righteousness
 
muhammad_isa said:
hi :)
I think the 'garden' is a spiritual concept. I don't think it's possible to
find a place in this world. We won't find the 'garden' without remembering AlmightyGod, as
we are weak, and are easily led away from it. i.e. righteousness
Click to expand...

surely GOD made all types of people so he must satisfy them all to make them know him [with what he created as the dogma says]. he must satisfy the scientists since he made them, the spiritualists because he made them, the mythologists since he made them too etc etc.
finding the actual garden might do the trick for everyone? would you personally be happy if science said they actually found THE garden of eden? would that be a spiritual experience for you?
i suppose its GODs fault i have questions.

peace.
 
ShemTov said:
would you personally be happy if science said they actually found THE garden of eden? would that be a spiritual experience for you?
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Welcome to the forums, ShemTov!

To answer your question, I don't think that science is the best frame of reference for the search for the Garden of Eden. In general, archaeological findings based on old texts tend to be surprising and, depending on expectations, disappointing. Schliemann's discovery of ancient Troy, for example, was spectacular, but current scientific scholarship is that he was wrong in identifying the layer he thought was the Homeric city. Also, discoveries of Hittite archives indicate that the account in the Iliad, as received, while based on historical fact, is way off in terms of the actual politics. Same with more recent legends, such as the legends surrounding Theoderic the great, which while based in historical fact, are distorted and mixed up with other figures and events.

My spiritual experiences tend to be very personal and validated by their immediacy, rather than external scholarly authorities.
 
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ShemTov said:
firstly i am a canadian anglican and just barely anglican. i was not terribly spiritual or anything else.
so i was in quarantine with little to do but read and i came to wonder if GOD has not finally given us the scientific tools to finally find the garden etc.
it is catholic dogma that we are supposed to find it at GODs behest and jewish texts say the same plus they built a landmark [damascus gate] to point to the dwelling place of god. the kaaba is oriented so the descendents of adam can use it as a guide to find the garden again when they are allowed back in.

peace.
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I presume you can provide a list of the Jewish texts you are referencing.

Oh, welcome to the forum. Any story behind your choice of user name?
 
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Cino said:
Welcome to the forums, ShemTov!

To answer your question, I don't think that science is the best frame of reference for the search for the Garden of Eden. In general, archaeological findings based on old texts tend to be surprising and, depending on expectations, disappointing. Schliemann's discovery of ancient Troy, for example, was spectacular, but current scientific scholarship is that he was wrong in identifying the layer he thought was the Homeric city. Also, discoveries of Hittite archives indicate that the account in the Iliad, as received, while based on historical fact, is way off in terms of the actual politics. Same with more recent legends, such as the legends surrounding Theoderic the great, which while based in historical fact, are distorted and mixed up with other figures and events.

My dpiritual experiences tend to be very personal and validated by their immediacy, rather than external scholarly authorities.
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thank you for the greeting.
i, a non practicing anglican, never for a moment considered the possibility that the garden was not real and someday we would find it. i must assume that people of a more spiritual nature believe it is ethereal. isn't that strange? it seems somewhat backwards? would it not be in our best interests if it was real and GOD is managing its discovery like the books say? i know in the past it was taken seriously and great efforts were made that lead to nothing but alot has changed in a short time.

now that iarcuri [and the other giant fortresses] has [have] been found it seems very probable that the real trojan war was in romania and the refugees from that were the sea people. some landed at hissarlik for a while on their way south. of course this confirms Rutter (1975, 1990), Walberg (1976), Deger-Jalkotzy (1977, 1983), Small (1990, 1997), Pilides (1994), Bankoff, Meyer, and Stefanovich (1996).

thanks so much
peace
 
A deeper perspective on the Garden of Eden story. Rabbi Manis Friedman. 22 minutes long:

 
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RabbiO said:
I presume you can provide a list of the Jewish texts you are referencing.
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hello
these stand out but i was not collecting them to be honest. i was just reading to pass the time.

The Midrash ha-Gadol (to Gen. 2:8) states that "Eden is a unique place on earth, but no creature is permitted to know its exact location. In the future, during the messianic period God will reveal to Israel the path to Eden."

Midrash Rabba (Eikha Rabba 1:32) states that Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai, during the Roman siege of Jerusalem, requested of Vespasian that he spare the western-most gates of the city that lead to Lydda (Lod). When the city was eventually taken, the Arab auxiliaries who had fought alongside the Romans under their general, Fanjar, also spared the wall from destruction. The chronicler who brings down the historical record adds: "And it was decreed in heaven that it should never be destroyed, seeing that the Divine Presence dwells in the West.
 
RabbiO said:
What dogma?
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this is certainly a memory exercise... thnx

There are 255 infallibly declared dogmas of the Catholic faith including:

-God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things.
-God keeps all created things in existence.
-God through His providence protects and guides all that He has created.
 
ShemTov said:
so adam and eve had to work for GOD or they could work for themselves. the apple was the choice?
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There are so many facets and meanings to the story. Like many verbal descriptions of spiritual mysteries it is couched in symbols. Imo.
 
RJM Corbet said:
There are so many facets and meanings to the story. Like many verbal descriptions of spiritual mysteries it is couched in symbols. Imo.
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would GOD do this to his simple creations? would the things by which we know HIM not be knowable by the most simple amongst us? would it not be something we can walk on and easily understand? would he expect a normal joe to be moved by mysterious spiritual symbols to know GOD?

peace
 
ShemTov said:
would GOD do this to his simple creations? would the things by which we know HIM not be knowable by the most simple amongst us? would it not be something we can walk on and easily understand? would he expect a normal joe to be moved by mysterious spiritual symbols to know GOD?

peace
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I don't know. I just posted a video by a Rabbi. Did you watch it?
 
ShemTov said:
i did. it seemed like he was talking about real events. you mentioned symbols.
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Thanks for watching it.

The crucifixion was a real event loaded with infinite layers of symbolism? The deeper you go, the deeper still to find?
 
ShemTov said:
thank you for the greeting.
i, a non practicing anglican, never for a moment considered the possibility that the garden was not real and someday we would find it. i must assume that people of a more spiritual nature believe it is ethereal. isn't that strange? it seems somewhat backwards? would it not be in our best interests if it was real and GOD is managing its discovery like the books say? i know in the past it was taken seriously and great efforts were made that lead to nothing but alot has changed in a short time.
Click to expand...

If it is your belief that the Garden of Eden is a physical location on planet Earth, then more power to you! It is not my place to judge or debate your beliefs. But we can compare!

If you want to discuss scientific, most likely archaeological discoveries, then a debate can happen. Same goes for scriptural debate.

To me, it's not been very clear where you want to take this conversation.
 
RJM Corbet said:
Thanks for watching it.

The crucifixion was a real event loaded with infinite layers of symbolism? The deeper you go, the deeper you find?
Click to expand...

agreed. what else is a real event. GOD created a garden it says.
 
Cino said:
If it is your belief that the Garden of Eden is a physical location on planet Earth, then more power to you! It is not my place to judge or debate your beliefs. But we can compare!

If you want to discuss scientific, most likely archaeological discoveries, then a debate can happen. Same goes for scriptural debate.

To me, it's not been very clear where you want to take this conversation.
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yes i was goofy and not really clear
"to me it would seem to be the thing to do with all of our technology and access to texts. has anyone actually tried?"

so hopefully...
scientific [archaeology and genetics probably] and scriptural debate and i guess it should include writings and symbology from persians, mesopotamians, indians and greeks...

its probably too much.
 
Well, the Genesis description (at the source of four rivers, two of them Euphrates and Tigris) already are incompatible with an Out of Africa hypothesis.

Norse legend places the first human couple on a sea shore, not the Anatolian highlands or the African Rift valley. Greek texts are unspecific as to the geography, but mention a plain at the foot of a mountain. Finnic myth has a duck pull up solid earth from the bottom of the sea.

Very divergent points to start out from...
 
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