Evolution is Unscientific

[wil]

Personally, I disagree. Man-made philosophy cannot match divine guidance on divine matters – the human intellect cannot match revelation – but empathy, compassion, the Golden Rule, etc., are practical, common sense rules, really, even if purely utilitarian.

I cannot separate human intellect/philosophy from the divine.

 

[Thomas]

I cannot separate human intellect/philosophy from the divine.

Can you not? Where do you locate Auschwitz?

Are we then puppets of the divine?

 

[Thomas]

Morês existed within the tribe for the benefit and success of the tribe. A person from outside the tribe was not entitled to the same treatment.

I'm not sure that's an absolute statement – but my point would be, we've brought that tribalism with us into religion.

Christ made 'love your neighbour' universal in the parable of the good Samaritan and other teachings.

Indeed, but for a thousand years that was not the exegesis of the parable. In antiquity its interpretation was more mystical than moral – we are the beaten man, Christ is the Samaritan, the whole thing's a parable of the church and the sacraments. We've lost that supernatural meaning and replaced it with a moral dilemma: What would you do?

Again, my point would be that a humanist would say 'help the fallen man'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Christ made 'love your neighbour' universal in the parable of the good Samaritan and other teachings.

There were so many people before Jesus who said love your neighbor. Remember Buddha and Mahavira.

 

[RJM]

There were so many people before Jesus who said love your neighbor. Remember Buddha and Mahavira.

But without them there was no thought to extend 'love your neighbour' to beyond the tribe or group? It was a concept that had to sink in a bit?

we've brought that tribalism with us into religion.

Very much. The 'we Christians' or 'we Muslims' clubs, and tribes within tribes ...

OK. To me, empathy is not uncommon, nor is it learned, nor is it dependent on scripture.

In fact, too easily and too often, we use scripture to validate a lack of empathy, to validate war, cruelty, etc.

Just as you say, imo

 

[stranger]

What would you do?
Again, my point would be that a humanist would say 'help the fallen man'.

Yes, that is the heart of the matter.

To experiment on human beings is, in a sense, to experiment on God, seeing that our fellow human beings carry within them the spark of the divine.

There are experiments which are done in a lab, and there are experiments that are done in the wild. The lab is safer and more contained, whereas the wild is expansive and has, within it, factors which are beyond our control. The wild is unpredictable and dangerous for all who participate.

I was almost destroyed once by such a wild and uncontrolled experiment. How is it exactly that a god helps a fallen man? Who is the fallen man and who is the god? Perhaps such matters should be left in more capable hands, but what is done is done.

What does it mean to "help the fallen man" anyway? Stay tuned, perhaps we will all find out. Will love rule the day? (Will all be healed?) Is destruction love, or love destruction? Matters beyond my paygrade, and I'm glad of it. I have no plan other than to let things play out.

 

[juantoo3]

Science adds seconds as and when required.

December 31, 2016
The last leap second was December 31, 2016. Since leap seconds are always added on the last day of June or December, the next possible date for a leap second is June 30, 2021. Leap seconds have been added 27 times since 1972.
Google Search

OK, so approx half a minute in 50 years. Would that extrapolate to a minute a century?, an hour in 6000 years?

In the same way Vedic people changed the beginning of their year three times in the course of 6,000 years by a month (in total three months), which was the slippage of seasons due to precession of equinox. That is why Christmas or 'natalis dies solis invicti' is in December and not in April along with vernal equinox and the Indo-European New Year (Navroz).

I wasn't aware of the Vedic correction, but I'm tolerably familiar with the Gregorian Correction to the Calendar. The calculations were performed by a Jesuit Priest named Christopher Clavius, and a crater on the Moon was named in his honor by the Apollo Astronauts.

The Gregorian calendar is the calendar used in most of the world.[1] It was introduced in October 1582 by Pope Gregory XIII as a minor modification of the Julian calendar, reducing the average year from 365.25 days to 365.2425 days, and adjusting for the drift in the 'tropical' or 'solar' year that the inaccuracy had caused during the intervening centuries.

The calendar spaces leap years to make its average year 365.2425 days long, approximating the 365.2422-day tropical year that is determined by the Earth's revolution around the Sun. The rule for leap years is:

Every year that is exactly divisible by four is a leap year, except for years that are exactly divisible by 100, but these centurial years are leap years if they are exactly divisible by 400. For example, the years 1700, 1800, and 1900 are not leap years, but the years 1600 and 2000 are.[2]

— United States Naval Observatory

Wiki: Gregorian calendar - Wikipedia

This is why Orthodox Christmas (season) continues to January 6. It is also where Leap Year (and Leap Century) come from.

 

[juantoo3]

There were so many people before Jesus who said love your neighbor. Remember Buddha and Mahavira.

Yes...but this is rather the point, not the opposite of it.

An embryonic morality can be observed among herding and pack mammals. I get the feeling a lot of religious teachers over time served to remind us of the need and value of moral structures.

 

[RJM]

OK, so approx half a minute in 50 years. Would that extrapolate to a minute a century?, an hour in 6000 years?

One would imagine the people calculating the age of the universe are aware of the fact, lol?

 

[Aupmanyav]

But without them there was no thought to extend 'love your neighbour' to beyond the tribe or group? It was a concept that had to sink in a bit?

It will never sink in, Buddha or no Buddha, Jesus or no Jesus. We will always fight for our individual interests. Most suffering in the world has been because of Christians and Muslims. They have found more skeletons in Canadian Christian schools.

I get the feeling a lot of religious teachers over time served to remind us of the need and value of moral structures.

And what does it result in?

 

[Aupmanyav]

OK, so approx half a minute in 50 years. Would that extrapolate to a minute a century?, an hour in 6000 years?

I wasn't aware of the Vedic correction, but I'm tolerably familiar with the Gregorian Correction to the Calendar. The calculations were performed by a Jesuit Priest named Christopher Clavius, and a crater on the Moon was named in his honor by the Apollo Astronauts. This is why Orthodox Christmas (season) continues to January 6. It is also where Leap Year (and Leap Century) come from.

No, slowing of the speed of rotation of earth and the speed with which earth goes around the sun are two different things.

Rotation, Reolution.

The first correction in the Western calendar was done by Emperor Nemo of Rome in 700 BCE, when he introduced the months of November and December. The ancient Roman calendar contained only 304 days. That was a relic of the Indo-European time-keeping from Pontic steppes, in which the two months of winter were not included in the year. Indian had their own way of time-keeping in the lunar and luni-solar calendars by adding a month or removing and adding days, which was quite accurate. The big change came when Indians abandoned calculations by asterisms (Nakshatras) to zodiac (Rashis). I do not know when that happened, perhaps sometimes before the Christian Era, may be after contact with Greeks.

 

[juantoo3]

And what does it (reminder of moral structures) result in?

To an observant person it results in the point that people on the whole are pig-headed self absorbed dullards that need to be reminded from time to time that playing nice together is beneficial for themselves (and obliquely for others as well).

 

[juantoo3]

No, slowing of the speed of rotation of earth and the speed with which earth goes around the sun are two different things.

Rotation, Re(v)olution.

I agree, and why I said what I did which you quoted earlier:

However, I've not heard if a year is any longer or shorter than it was a thousand, a million, ten million years ago. A trip around the sun is a year, and that trip is independent of how many hours/minutes/seconds as we currently measure time.

It doesn't answer the question, and since the answer likely isn't linear anyway I have no way to resolve the variables. As a round figure with the numbers already presented it would seem that time as we currently calculate it loses about one hour every 6000 revolutions around Sol.

Therefore within recorded historical time we can safely say the world has lost about 90 minutes. (This is apart and aside from the Gregorian correction, which depending which country and time of adoption ranged from 10 to 14 days or so.)

At the time of Gregory's reform there had already been a drift of 10 days since the Council of Nicaea, resulting in the vernal equinox falling on 10 or 11 March instead of the ecclesiastically fixed date of 21 March, and if unreformed it would have drifted further.
-and-
The Julian calendar day Thursday, 4 October 1582 was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 (the cycle of weekdays was not affected).

Wiki: Gregorian calendar - Wikipedia

The Wiki goes on to note that this only affected the Papal States at first. The King of Spain adopted the correction which effectively spread it across most of the Catholic world at the time, but other nations resisted as a "Catholic Conspiracy." England didn't adopt the correction until the 1750s, and then they put their own spin on it so as to leave the Catholic association out of it. That then spread the correction across the British Colonies. The Wiki notes Turkey specifically adopting the correction in 1917 for fiscal purposes, at that time the Islamic Lunar calendar was still in use for general purposes, and in 1926 Turkey adopted the correction for all calendrical purposes.

The first correction in the Western calendar was done by Emperor Nemo of Rome in 700 BCE, when he introduced the months of November and December. The ancient Roman calendar contained only 304 days. That was a relic of the Indo-European time-keeping from Pontic steppes, in which the two months of winter were not included in the year. Indian had their own way of time-keeping in the lunar and luni-solar calendars by adding a month or removing and adding days, which was quite accurate. The big change came when Indians abandoned calculations by asterisms (Nakshatras) to zodiac (Rashis). I do not know when that happened, perhaps sometimes before the Christian Era, may be after contact with Greeks.

I do not find an Emperor Nemo of Rome, the closest being Nero, though his reign was during the early Christian era.

Did you perhaps intend the Julian calendar? That is named for Julius Caesar, when he changed the name of July to honor himself. It is an interesting quirk that several of the months do have "Latin number" associations, but they are two months off from current reckoning, i.e.: "Sept"ember (7), "Oct"ober (8), "Nov"ember (9) and "Dec"ember (10). I've seen this discussed as an artifact of having the calendar previously start the year in March at the Equinox, the traditional beginning of Spring.

I am not familiar with the Vedic calendar. The only other I have passing familiarity with is the Celtic calendar, consisting of 12 months of 30 days, and 5 or 6 "days out of time" around the Winter Solstice. Base 12 (duodecimal) has connections back to Babylon, whereas base 10 (decimal) math has Hindu-Arabic origins.

Also of note from the Wiki, is the start of the year observed in various countries over the centuries:

The year used in dates during the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire was the consular year, which began on the day when consuls first entered office—probably 1 May before AUC532 (222BC), 15 March from AUC532 (222BC) and 1 January from AUC601 (153BC).[34] The Julian calendar, which began in AUC709 (45BC), continued to use 1 January as the first day of the new year. Even though the year used for dates changed, the civil year always displayed its months in the order January to December from the Roman Republican period until the present.

During the Middle Ages, under the influence of the Catholic Church, many Western European countries moved the start of the year to one of several important Christian festivals—25 December (supposed Nativity of Jesus), 25 March (Annunciation), or Easter (France),[35] while the Byzantine Empire began its year on 1 September and Russia did so on 1 March until 1492 when the new year was moved to 1 September.[36]

In common usage, 1 January was regarded as New Year's Day and celebrated as such,[37] but from the 12th century until 1751 the legal year in England began on 25 March (Lady Day).[38] So, for example, the Parliamentary record lists the execution of Charles I on 30 January as occurring in 1648 (as the year did not end until 24 March),[39] although later histories adjust the start of the year to 1 January and record the execution as occurring in 1649.[40]

Most Western European countries changed the start of the year to 1 January before they adopted the Gregorian calendar. For example, Scotland changed the start of the Scottish New Year to 1 January in 1600 (this means that 1599 was a short year). England, Ireland and the British colonies changed the start of the year to 1 January in 1752 (so 1751 was a short year with only 282 days). Later in 1752 in September the Gregorian calendar was introduced throughout Britain and the British colonies (see the section Adoption). These two reforms were implemented by the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750.[41]

In some countries, an official decree or law specified that the start of the year should be 1 January. For such countries, a specific year when a 1 January-year became the norm can be identified. In other countries, the customs varied, and the start of the year moved back and forth as fashion and influence from other countries dictated various customs.

January 1 has not always been the start of the New Year.

 

[Aupmanyav]

To an observant person it results in the point that people on the whole are pig-headed self absorbed dullards ..

An observant person will know that even without being reminded by anyone.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It doesn't answer the question, and since the answer likely isn't linear anyway I have no way to resolve the variables. As a round figure with the numbers already presented it would seem that time as we currently calculate it loses about one hour every 6000 revolutions around Sol.

I do not find an Emperor Nemo of Rome, the closest being Nero, though his reign was during the early Christian era.

The only other I have passing familiarity with is the Celtic calendar, consisting of 12 months of 30 days, and 5 or 6 "days out of time" around the Winter Solstice. Base 12 (duodecimal) has connections back to Babylon, whereas base 10 (decimal) math has Hindu-Arabic origins.

Your concepts are still not clear. There are three factors involved:
1. Earth gains one second approximately every four years because of the slowing down of its rotation.
2. Gregorian correction takes care of 0.25 day in the revolution of earth around the sun, that being 365.25 days.
3. "Axial precession is a gravity-induced, slow, and continuous change in the inclination of an astronomical body's rotational axis." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession). You can say 'movement of the poles', 'the wobble'. All heavenly bodies will have it.

For Earth, the last is a cycle of 26000 years. That gives about a month of slippage in the period of 2,000 years. It has been observed all through the history since the days of Hipparchus in the Western world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#History) and in RigVeda for the last 6,000 years.

Indo-European new year began on the day of vernal equinox. The seasons were important to them for their rituals, and they adjusted for any difference that arose. They noticed the asterism in which the sun rose on the day of vernal equinox. At one time it was Orion, then the Pleiades and lastly Aries. Each change meant the calendar had to be advanced by one month. The Indo-Europeans who moved to West from the steppes (who influenced the modern day European conventions) did not keep this tradition. That is why the new year now begins in January.

I mis-spelt the name of the Roman Emperor. It was Numa in the 7th Century BCE (and not Nemo) who corrected the 304 day old Roman calendar by adding January and February.

I am aware of the Celtic calendar beginning from Winter solstice. That was a still older version of the Indo-European calendar. It survives in India in the Sanskrit blessing - "Jive twam sharadām shatam" (May you live for a hundred winters).

Twelve cannot be ascribed only to Babylonians. Return of seasons after 12+ lunar months is a universal phenomenon. Babylonians chose 12 because it was divisible by 2, 3 and 4.

 

[Aupmanyav]

By tradition, Numa promulgated a calendar reform, which divided the year into twelve months according to the lunar course, but adjusted to be in accordance with the solstitial revolution. It was during this time that the months of January and February were introduced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numa_Pompilius#Institutions_attributed_to_Numa

Traditionally, the original Roman calendar consisted of 10 months totaling 304 days, winter being considered a month-less period. Around 713 BC, the semi-mythical successor of Romulus, King Numa Pompilius, is supposed to have added the months of January and February, so that the calendar covered a standard lunar year (354 days). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January#History

 

[juantoo3]

Twelve cannot be ascribed only to Babylonians. Return of seasons after 12+ lunar months is a universal phenomenon. Babylonians chose 12 because it was divisible by 2, 3 and 4.

and 6, correct.

And 360 (12X30) is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10

 

[juantoo3]

By tradition, Numa promulgated a calendar reform, which divided the year into twelve months according to the lunar course, but adjusted to be in accordance with the solstitial revolution. It was during this time that the months of January and February were introduced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numa_Pompilius#Institutions_attributed_to_Numa

Traditionally, the original Roman calendar consisted of 10 months totaling 304 days, winter being considered a month-less period. Around 713 BC, the semi-mythical successor of Romulus, King Numa Pompilius, is supposed to have added the months of January and February, so that the calendar covered a standard lunar year (354 days). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January#History

Good to know about Numa, a bit early in the Roman history I've looked into.

Gyroscopes are a lot of fun, played with them extensively in the military...

I have two vintage gyroscope toys very similar to the one shown (except painted), I haven't looked at them in some years now, tucked away in some corner around here someplace.

Magnus Effect is another intriguing natural phenomenon.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Reminds me of Schick's 49 yards goal.

 

[juantoo3]

An alternative application of the same priniciple: