Fluidology

Aupmanyav said:
Buddha said we reincarnate every moment.
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This is interesting because I can also understand how this thought can find time. An allowed mind, at the beginning of this world becomes a single cell organism, which then becomes later a multi-celled organism and through evolution millions of minds to become themselves. I look at these minds like a cornucopia of minds they have allowed inside of themselves to become themselves. Interestingly enough the mind looks like a small galaxy of minds within it that are all becoming themselves. The mind can become anything inside of itself to find time here and to figure itself out or even become something here again if it chooses as anything inside of it, but this is the ability of the mind not who we are.

The thing we must understand is the mind will never become something less then it is, it will always try to become something more, de-evolution would not make sense to the mind. To de-evolve would be to become the last thing you were before this form you are now and that thing would have to be able to become something here to become it, such as a neanderthal.

The rules to this are that it has to be able to become something here many times for it to become something all the time. I think of mixed biology when thinking about why some things can become something again and others cannot, like a lyger, or a mule.

If Buddha had spent time within the mind of his allowed mind he might have understood the minds thoughts on it's ability to become anything inside of itself.

I might have misunderstood your thought I am unsure of the words "every moment".

Powessy
 
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Ella S. said:
I think that would be Gnosticism. It can be a bit confusing because both practiced and influenced Western alchemy, but the Hermetists sought to play their role in nature and saw reincarnation as a good and natural thing, whereas the Gnostics sought to escape nature and liberate themselves from the material world.

Hermetic organizations like the Scottish Rite Lodge and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn do believe in salvation, since they are heavily Christian, although Freemasons tend toward the belief that it's their job to bring Christendom here on earth and the Golden Dawn didn't really have any doctrines on the afterlife, seeing their practices more as a form of perfecting their service of God on earth. As such, their practices still don't really revolve around attaining liberation, as far as I know.

That said, there are some New Age movements that call themselves Hermetic and are based on Theosophy or the Kybalion. I don't know very much about them. Thelema and Wicca certainly don't pursue liberation from nature, at least not according to Crowley or Gardner.
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Thanks for this.
Would it be fair to class the Tarot as Hermetic?
 
muhammad_isa said:
..but that is the case.
Nobody goes "to hell" except for the unrepentant.
Even when in hell, many can escape from it eventually.
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It's not just about going to hell or not. If you have done bad stuff to someone or the world in general, then it would be constructive to change that into something positive. For example, if you have willfully wounded people, you could try to make up for it by reincarnating and becoming a nurse. As a form of repair.

An internal 'karmic balance' (so to speak) is not the only thing that is relevant. Having actually done more good than bad to others and the world is important too. As you then reach higher heavens over time, it can be perceived as merit. Should you be there with an idea of "I have hurt others but have not made up, who cares", then you have no inner peace. And progress becomes harder.

You can not repair, experience, or learn everything in the afterlife. There are practical life lessons that can only be learned during an incarnated state. Obviously you can't learn everything in one such life. If you think it over, reincarnation makes a lot of sense.
 
Paulus said:
You can not repair, experience, or learn everything in the afterlife. There are practical life lessons that can only be learned during an incarnated state. Obviously you can't learn everything in one such life. If you think it over, reincarnation makes a lot of sense.
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Well, I don't claim to know what happens after my death.
I am sure of only one thing. That when I die, that is not the end of the story :)
 
powessy said:
The thing we must understand is the mind will never become something less then it is, it will always try to become something more, de-evolution would not make sense to the mind. To de-evolve would be to become the last thing you were before this form you are now and that thing would have to be able to become something here to become it, such as a neanderthal.
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This question is probably misguided and probably should be asked elsewhere in the forum, but anyway: does this movie qualify as a demonstration of what de-evolution would look like, if there was a reason for it to happen?
 
Paulus said:
Obviously you can't learn everything in one such life. If you think it over, reincarnation makes a lot of sense.
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I hear this often, but am not sure what the 'everything' comprises of, that takes so many lives to learn?
 
RJM Corbet said:
Thanks for this.
Would it be fair to class the Tarot as Hermetic?
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There are certainly a lot of Hermetic tarot decks, such as the famous Raider-Waite deck and the Thoth deck, and these tend to be what most people think of when they think of Tarot.

Technically, though, not all Tarot decks are Hermetic and a lot of older decks have the "wrong" amount of major arcana cards, or different kinds of suites, and were used primarily as playing cards.
 
plouton6 said:
This question is probably misguided and probably should be asked elsewhere in the forum, but anyway: does this movie qualify as a demonstration of what de-evolution would look like, if there was a reason for it to happen?
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This movie would be what I am talking about "Altered States" as de-evolution. To become what we can become is anything in our path of evolution going back to the beginning of this world our timeline as humans. The thing to understand also is that not allowed minds do not have this extensive timeline so they can only de-evolve to what they are now.

You can now see the benefit of de-evolution for allowed minds, if this world were to go extinct except for the little minds, we could come back much faster from this because we already know the timeline order of life.

Powessy
 
(Obviously you can't learn everything in one such life.)

Thomas said:
I hear this often, but am not sure what the 'everything' comprises of, that takes so many lives to learn?
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Possibly:
- known what it is like to have been (raised) in several flavours of family / society / country / culture / religion
- know what it is to be in a loving family, so you can be good to others
- know what it is to grow up alone and learn to develop survival instinct / intuition
- know what it feels like to be male or female
- know what it is like to lead a primitive life versus a life with good facilities
- experience trials where the easy choice for yourself is not the most ethical one -- develop morality
- experience several forms of pain, both physical and emotional (exclusion, abuse), so you understand other peoples pain and can develop empathy
- learn to get along with people outside your spiritual bubble (in the afterlife same-spirited souls attract)
- develop intellect (you need to plan stuff here to get somewhere; the afterlife is easier in that respect)
- learn to distinguish peoples agenda behind their mask (there are no 'masks' in the afterlife)
- learn to distinguish between good and bad in all sorts of obvious and less obvious forms
- resist many forms of wrongdoing
- try to keep your spirit up in difficult conditions
- experience fraudulent situations; learn to appreciate integrity by not taking truthful behaviour for granted
- encounter several political situations and try to deal with them in the best possible manner
- develop an intuition for health by listening to your body and recognise what's good for you
- learn to know and appreciate real friends in hard times
- learn creative arts of all sorts. These talents add up unconsciously by the way, which explains why some people have specific talents at birth. Actually, all experience accumulates :)
- etc...

This is an arbitrary incomplete list. As an example you could take a history book and randomly select a period and a place. You can learn things in each situation (by EXPERIENCE). You don't have to go through everything, but living contrasting lives grows the soul.
 
May be an arbitrary incomplete list but a nice post.
But this is the only life, one does not get any other (disappointing to most people). The stark truth is that it is dissolution in the elements after death. And what one wants to know is not difficult to know. The only condition is that one must start with a clean slate, an absolutely clean slate.
 
Paulus said:
As an example you could take a history book and randomly select a period and a place. You can learn things in each situation (by EXPERIENCE). You don't have to go through everything, but living contrasting lives grows the soul.
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That's why I think writing and acting are beautiful careers. Writers and actors get to live several lives in one.
 
Aupmanyav said:
But this is the only life, one does not get any other (disappointing to most people). The stark truth is that it is dissolution in the elements after death.
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I'm not going to argue about it. You seem to be materialistic while I am dualistic (in the matter/spirit sense). I guess time will tell. But I can't help to wonder what in your view is the point of it all, if you live a life and then *poof* it's over?
 
Paulus said:
I'm not going to argue about it. You seem to be materialistic while I am dualistic (in the matter/spirit sense). I guess time will tell. But I can't help to wonder what in your view is the point of it all, if you live a life and then *poof* it's over?
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Answering for myself: I really never understood, at a deep level, what the "meaning of life" question is about. To me, meaning is something we manufacture by consent, to facilitate communication. Meaning came into my life long after I was born, as I learned my way around society. To me, it is endless possibilities, not pre-existing, pre-ordained. But then, I'm a materialist: Existence precedes essence, in my personal experience of life.

All of this doesn't mean I don't have goals, or purpose for this life, or that I never procrastinate and wish I could solve issues in such a dim future that it might just as well be a future life :)

I'd like to ask in return what you'd like to carry across the *poof* moment, and what you'd rather leave behind, and how that choice is informed by the meaning you find in life?
 
Thanks for your view! You got me with returning the question, it made me think it over.

First what I leave behind:
- my body, for the worms or for science
- my belongings for friends or the needy
- hopefully some pleasant memories for those I've met

What I'd like to (and will) take with me:
- inevitably my soul/spirit/self; hard to describe but a very real 'subject'
- all the knowledge I have collected over time, both intellectually and intuitively
- my bond with friends, it wont be broken by death
- memories don't decay either, but luckily can be kept away from attention focus :D

As for purpose, I think it all boils down to be(come) happy. A simple answer perhaps, but I really can't think of anything more worthwhile than that. And I think it is universal. Everyone in the end wants to be happy and that search keeps us going forward. Without hope for happiness there simpy is no point to it all. You don't do things just for the mechanical fact. Why would you?

What makes one happy can differ per person, but at the core are values like love, beauty, having your place etc. Many that have visited the afterlife, me included, can report a greater intensity of those values. Add to that the fact that you can't die, by then a plain fact, and you have a reason to live for.

Back to earth, life is not always that rosy. I have been through a lot of struggle, but that short beyond-death moment has kept me on my feet all the time. I guess the meaning of life for me is reaching that heavenly state, without floatiness, and try to bring a spark of it here. Simply by having some fun while being considerate of others, and by trying to do some good, no matter how small.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Yeah, IMHO it is just that. So enjoy, keep away from evil deeds for the sake of society. Be responsible, for you derive you pleasures from the society. Follow 'Dharma'. :)
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Ok, thanks for your viewpoint.
 
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