I think religion is dangerous for the very reasons I see written here. When you create a religion you automatically exclude other concepts and ideas. Even if not done maliciously or judgementally. The Spirit of God or Enlightenment is all inclusive and loving. When we finally realize that we are more alike than different then we'll see some exciting things happen. Religion may well be the last great hurdle for mankind to get over before we truly come together and great progress is made.
Nonesense! People often say religion is the cause of war but that is ignorance. The truth if religion is not the course of war then something else will be. Anyway more to the point, religion is not something that separates us people, infact its what brings us togther. Look at Christmas for example. The ones that separate themselves from other using religion are the ignorant ones. Most (if not all) religions tell us to live at peace with one another, so tell me this! If you go against idea then you are the cause for separation!
I myself i am a christian so i quote you this from my 'cause for separation religion' "To live, indeed, is not in our power, but to live rightly is"
Case closed!
I myself i am a christian so i quote you this from my 'cause for separation religion' "To live, indeed, is not in our power, but to live rightly is"
Case closed!
bgruagach
eclectic Wiccan
Azure24 said:
I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that no conflict throughout history was ever triggered or justified by religious claims?
Wars and other political conflicts are rarely ever simple with just one clear cause. Religion is certainly not the sole cause for any war but it is most definitely one of the key factors in many conflicts.
Sectarian violence in Ireland, just as one example, is clearly based on lines drawn between Catholic and Protestant factions. We don't have to look very far to find other examples around the world in the past and even in the present day.
Azure24 said:
So for people to be brought together by religion it means everyone has to participate, correct?
Do you attend all the various events sponsored by all the different religious groups just in your own area? Do you faithfully participate in Jewish Sabbaths, in Muslim prayers at temple, in Hindu rituals? Do you attend the ceremonies at all the different Christian churches in your area?
If you're not then you must be wilfully rejecting some of those religions. Is someone who doesn't participate in other religions' ceremonies ignorant and purposefully separating themselves from others on religious grounds?
Azure24 said:
Many religious groups throughout history have interpreted their religious claim to "live in peace" as only applying to people who are in their own religious community. This is how they justify engaging in conflict with others -- because they are not "true believers" they are therefore fair game for political conquest or even things such as slavery or genocide. This attitude is not embraced by all religious groups of course but it has existed (and perhaps still exists) in many.
Religions say lots of different things but even where you might think its claims and demands are clear there is always going to be disagreement over interpretations. Some groups do treat "live in peace" as applying to all people regardless of their differences but others interpret "live in peace" in very limited and often relative ways. If things were truly simple with regards to religion we wouldn't have all the different religions, or the different denominations and sects within religions, that we have today.
; )
Ben Gruagach
heavensblade23
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That's the problem, we don't have proof of life after death, just suggestion. No one has put forth anything better as of yet.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Hmmm, I happen to believe that life after (physical) death has been proved conclusively and incontrovertibly ... such that we may be 100% certain that such exists - for every single human being (and animal being, too). Probably a careful study would reveal, if it has not done so already, that the spirits of trees (not singular, individualized spirits, but the collective soul - say for a forest) also survive "death."
The difficulty is, we have become so enmeshed in our physical reality, and often so jaded with regard to any rational discussion of non-physical existence, that a good many people do not even accept the latter! Owing both to our pride in the "power(s) of science," and also to the materialistic focus that still conditions the human collective consciousness (especially in the West), we hastily toss the proofs for life after death into the rubbish bin, often deeming them "pseudo-science," or "fringe science." Little do we realize that this pseudo-science is decades, if not centuries ahead of the zeitgeist ... and I suspect we shall all sigh, and kick ourselves once we realize how narrow our outlook has been - for so, so many generations.
Yes, I would say that 150 years ago, a reasoning, rational individual even with just a secondary education and an average IQ could have proven to him or herself the existence of an afterlife ... were s/he to have made the effort in an open-minded manner, unhindered by the a-prioris and status quo of much scientific and religious teaching.
The examples of concrete EVIDENCE for life after death are endless. The problem is, we are either to wedded to our skepticism and thus reluctant to view this evidence open-mindedly ... or we are just too darn lazy to do any real research on the matter. We want someone else to bring us the proof, and sooner or later we must realize that with such an attitude we will fail to recognize truths that are -- all around us!
I find great irony in the fact that the staunchest atheists and materialists cannot seem to understand the "catch 22" in their methodology. They argue, "Before I will accept a life after death, you must provide me with proof that a non-physical (or non-material) realm exists ... within which the deceased survive. That, or SHOW me a `soul,' a `spirit.'"
Now you see, I'm pretty sure a child of 6 would be able to see around corner on this one!
But the materialist (and I feel certain that we are speaking in percentages here ... everyone at C-R is a materialistic in his or beliefs to a certain extent, no matter how pious, spiritual, far out or idealistic) ... the materialist will just dig in his heels and slam his fist on the table, and - to speak quite literally - proceed to lock himself out of the world(s) beyond this one.
In this, I suppose his attitude is not unlike a Chinese finger trap. Until he relaxes his defenses, and sets aside his skepticism long enough to view the facts as they may be laid out before him, he will - of necessity - feel compelled to resist.
Heavensblade, I would ask, if I might ... what are the arguments, or existing pieces of purported evidence for life after death, as you are aware of them? Specifically, what purported scientific arguments, or pieces of evidence (including individual studies & investigations, case studies, etc.) have you encountered, and if I might ask, why do none of these come across to you as conclusive?
If I might be somewhat leading, could I further ask, does it not strike you that perhaps no one, single case, but rather, the combination of these many, different approaches, types of "evidence" and testimony, etc. ... might synthetically, or wholistically be precisely the proof that we are seeking?
I think this is just the trouble, when all's said and done. We want the smoking gun, and what we are not realizing is that the Truth (in this matter as in all others) is much larger than any of its individual pieces. It is, if I might humbly suggest, even larger than all that we might be capable of understanding in any given moment. And it will always be just so!
Whoever says, "we may never know" whether or not there is an afterlife ... until we die - I can agree with her about one thing. We may not recall (sic) what it is like, precisely ... until we die (again). And then, as familiar as getting up each morning and discovering that the sun did rise (even on a cloudy day), we shall wonder - how could we have ever forgotten?
Perhaps this life is the cloudy day, and the irony here is that we are questioning the very existence of the sun! After all, we cannot SEE it - when it's cloudy. We cannot feel its warmth. So perhaps it does not exist!!
Hollywood has done a great deal to point us in the right direction regarding the nature of life after death, although certainly there's a lot of fluff, and just plain fiction out there as well. Some of it is perhaps meant to stimulate our own questioning, and to encourage us in our search. Albert Brooks' `Defending Your Life' is a movie that I think approaches the subject very cleverly. It's not meant to necessarily be literal, but it does give us much food for - thought. Ha!
Another one, which deals mostly with the conditions immediately following our bodily death, is `Ghost,' with Whoopi Goldberg, Demi Moore and ... whoever that male actor is who I can't think of right now. "Sam" is the character's name. Unchained Melody, pottery, yadda yadda. Yes, but, if I had 2 billion dollars to bet, double or nothing, on what the conditions of death are like, generally speaking -- THAT's where my money is!
It's a beautiful, wonderful study. It does not get preachy, it does not become too speculative ... and it is quite entertaining, very touching, and suitable even for most children (certainly these days).
One more, which I recall as truly Magnificent! ... is `What Dreams May Come,' with Robin Williams. Again, perhaps not meant to say to us, "This is exactly what it's like," it does ask us to THINK ... and to imagine. If we do both of these, I am quite certain that, yes, by movie's end, we will understand, even literally, a little bit more about just how things are - after death.
Are these just movies? Of course they are. And where did they come from? And whose inspiration were they? And when that Inspiration?
Thousands of years ago, the Mystery Teachings made plain enough, as they do today, both the fact that we do survive bodily death, and they also went further. They gave us pointers, advice, indications and just enough detail that if we are serious, we can take our investigations as far as we like. The most wonderful part of all, is that these teachings are increasingly accessible to each and every soul that searches.
Libraries, bookstores, the Internet, and our friends, family and mentors, all can point us in the right direction. Really it is we who decide, when we will learn, what we will learn, and how we will learn. We also decide whether. The worst thing we can do along these lines, is to sabotage our own progress, and even that of others, by sinking into some type of personal agenda. And sadly, such personal agendas do not always even originate within ourselves. Instead, they are merely borrowed, and pretty much foisted onto us ... largely at the unconscous level.
The result is that, sooner or later, if we really desire to find and know the Truth (about anything whatsoever -- such as life after death), we will first have to claw our way through whatever it is that we have come to believe. And that's not all bad, nor is it advisable or necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
But instead of asking, What is true about x, y or z? ... we usually prefer to ask, What do I LIKE about x, y or z? And it's clear that many people are extremely attached to the idea that "he who dies with the most toys wins," as well as something like "hey, I can do whatever the hell I want, TO whoever the hell I want, and any WAY I want -- because after all, I am the only person who really matters."
No, most of us really aren't like that, at least consciously, and actually we are probably fairly dedicated to living more and more for the greater Good. Yet the pull of selfish desires, which some people choose to call `little ego' (as distinct from Soul, which is naturally group conscious), exists within each and every one of us. And our challenge is to be able to sort out -- just which pulls and inclinations originate within the little ego, which ones come to us direct from Soul Awareness (always `on,' always alert) ... and which of these are somewhere in between?
Mob rules is not how we arrive at truth, yet sometimes it is precisely how popular opinion, or popular awareness, is dictated or decided. Because that's what others believe, especially when this refers to others of the same Faith/religion/philosophy as mine ... is not really a GOOD reason to believe in ANYthing. It happens to be, however, the reason many people never choose to investigate another religion, another culture, another way of life. In this way, our beliefs can come to be a prison-house, rather than a pathway of learning, growth and expansion. If the latter isn't occurring, maybe it's time to branch out. This doesn't mean forsaking everything one believes; it just means finding room to see what others believe.
And when it comes to life after death, I'm pretty sure any honest exploration will demonstrate that every world religion, universally, teaches that we survive bodily death. Using the tools of science, including the most important tool of all, which is a methodology, we can take our investigations one step further. Combine this with personal anecdotes and experiences (some of these may even be our own!) ... and hearken to the Voice of Wisdom as it whispers through the Soul at collective, personal, and interpersonal levels, and I feel certain each of us can arrive at some form of common understanding with regard to what happens to us, or where we go when we die.
The removal of the fear of death equals nothing less than the empowerment to live a life full of meaning, and it also returns the Responsibility for one's life, one's actions, one's thoughts and one's intentions - SQUARELY upon the shoulders of each of us, as an Individual. I cannot think of many realizations that would be more important, than that of a common heritage, a common destiny, and shared, cooperative partnership that characterizes our Journey -- both in this life, and in the next.The splintering, the fragmentation, the separateness, which condition every aspect of our existence (below the threshhold of Soul Awareness) ... would disappear, in such a scenario. And I'm pretty darn confident, that just such a scenario, is - at least in part - what the greatest Minds (and Hearts) of our planet have always imagined, and have taught, and have worked toward for may thousands of years.
But hey, why bother. Life's a bitch, and then you die, right?
Precisely. There are so many things wrong with that little expression, that I'm not sure if we are prepared to consider how blasphemous it actually is. But if saying something like that is disempowering, and very much on the wrong track when it comes to how things really are ... then what about the antidote? What is the reverse of this affirmation, accidental as it may often be?
Celebrate Life ... the Circle of Life (is what comes to mind)
I can't imagine anything more affirming, more positive and more right on, than a song by Tim Rice, and Elton John ... The Circle of Life (from `The Lion King,'). It just seems to fit: The Lion King Lyrics - "Circle of Life"
I haven't posted for awhile. I guess a bit of a ramble was inevitable ...
peace, All,
and Love & Light
China Cat Sunflower
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Hi Andrew! Nice to see you around.
Chris
Chris
Hi Andrew-it is nice to see you around again. For someone who is interested in reading through various scinetifically suggestive info re life after death, I recommend the rather lengthy but interesting book by British psychologist and paranormal investigator, David Fontana, entitled "Is There an Afterlife?" Was in reading that book that I first heard of the research into electronic communication with "the other side" known as instrumental transcommunication which I started a thread about long time back here and particulary the work of Cardoso with "timestream." Fascinating stuff:
Voices of Timestream
have a good one, earl
Voices of Timestream
have a good one, earl
Dondi
Well-Known Member
taijasi said:
Perhaps you could further elaborate on the term 'concrete evidence', Andrew. Certainly there is antedotal evidence, but that is rather subjective to the individual who experiences it. I read a lot of NDEs, but I wouldn't call it 'concrete' to totally convince me. I think what people are looking for is scientific evidence that the soul survives the body.
Trouble is, much of what we deem as 'afterlife' occurs in a non-material state. In other words, it cannot be measured (although the Apostle John was told to take a rod and measure the perimeter of New Jerusalem, but that's another story). Is there anything that we can detect that via the scientific method that will give us the data in which we could make a reliable theory of what happens when we die?
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Understood, Dondi. And in short, yes, there is ample scientific evidence ... but it consists, because at this point in our evolution it must consist, of an instrument, or tool for collecting scientific data -- which most of us either take for granted, or do not even yet recognize as an instrument at all!
Quantum physics has shown us, long ago, that even the act of observing changes the state of things. This is not theory; it is a FACT. For the layperson, a movie like What the Bleep Do We Know? is a good place to learn about this, though I must admist, I don't have a very scientific mind, and much of quantum physics kind of goes right by me. Still, understanding that WE are part of the equation ... this is what's vital.
Once we can accept this, because recognizing it as a fact, we are also at liberty to make several valid inductions. The most important of these, relevant to the subject of life after death and what constitutes evidence, is that THE HUMAN BEING is, itself, an instrument that can be used to collect data.
Specifically, we must key in on that portion, or those portions of our being which are not fully physical, but which are either conditionally physical, partially phsycial, or simply in touch with the physical ... and which also have access (either naturally or perhaps when subjected to certain conditions) with the non-physical world(s). Once we turn our attention in this direction (and as an example, I would first ask you to quantify, or define your `attention'), we open a very important door in our investigation which must otherwise, perforce, remain closed.
Curiosity, imagination, earnest inquiry -- these are probably the first three factors that must apply as we begin our search. But they must gradually be followed by patience, perseverance and a growing ability to discriminate between truth and fancy. In the latter case, we have to ask ourselves, what are the guidelines? How do we determine the facts, in a case such as this when the guidebook has yet to written (to everyone's satisfaction)?
I would suggest that each and every one of us is capable of communicating with those who have gone beyond. It does not take some special gift; the potential to tap in to the worlds beyond lies within us all. It is just that some of us come to a point where, for one reason or another, we pursue this potential, and develop it. I'm not saying there isn't a certain predisposition within some; my own sister is one of the most highly mediumistic people I have ever met, but we are adopted, each from a different set of biological parents. I don't have her predispositions, but I do have the same potential.
Neither of us is particularly interested in communicating with the dead, however, in terms of an active, literal pursuit, yet she can tune in and clairvoyantly perceive the astral plane in ways that I probably could not, even if I devoted my life to it. And if I did the latter, it would most likely result in disaster, as this is a good ways away from my `calling' in life ... something I have recognized for years.
What I do maintain, probably even moreso than my sister, is an interest in the phenomenon itself. I have asked, for almost 20 years, WHY can some people communicate with the deceased ... and perhaps more to the heart of the matter, what is the structure of the human being (psychically and spiritually speaking) and of reality that we occupy one world, while the "dead" occupy another?
Getting back to the notion that we are the most important scientific INSTRUMENT yet applied, in ANY scientific experiment, I think we must start taking seriously the claims -- from psychics, sensitives (or mediums) and investigators in all parts of the world, dating back centuries, even millennia -- that the world of the dead CAN be perceived, investigated, catalogued and understood. Efforts toward the latter have always been underway, yet because of our prejudice, or often simply because we ourselves cannot immediately verify these claims, we tend to dismiss them out of hand.
I'll give you an excellent example of the best scientific experiment I've encountered undertaken by a single individual to catalogue the world of the dead. In 1894, C. W. Leadbeater published a book entitled, The Astral Plane: Its Scenery, Inhabitants and Phenomena. This book can be read online in its entirety at the link provided. I have read it twice, if not more than that, and have referenced it on occasion.
While I cannot personally speak firsthand for the accuracy of every single fact, I can certainly say - beyond a shadow of a doubt - that it provides a very good overview, and should serve as a useful starting point for anyone who wishes to understand the nature of life after death ... including sufficient detail even for the hardcore scientist.
What this little manual cannot provide, is a firsthand experience of the afterlife, laid plain to the satisfaction of our imaginations, with a chiming in from dear old aunt Edna, uncle Al or Mom, Dad, Grandma and Grandpa. And how could it? It consists merely of the investigations of one individual, using his God-given powers of ascertainment, applied to the subject at hand (or more generally to the existence of the astral plane, in an effort to describe this world to those of us who cannot perceive it).
What is unique about Leadbeater's investigation is that he was a trained clairvoyant, and not simply someone who felt like dabbling with a ouija board!
Leadbeater had what some people will term a gift for clairvoyance, but the real gift was his unselfish spirit and the desire to share his experiences with the world at large. He was able to finely tune his clairvoyant powers and direct his attention to whatever portion, or particular of the astral plane that he chose ... and while he was certainly not perfect, either as an individual or in terms of his clairvoyant powers, his efforts have the endorsement both of his fellow clairvoyants (those carrying out similar experiments and observations in modern times) and of Those Who taught him. The latter include several of the Wise Guides or Elder Sages Who have always been present with Humanity, and this kind of corroboration - not meant as flattery or praise to the personality - stands out, or rather points toward CWL's contributions in this case, as a Beacon to us all.
Other investigators since Leadbeater's time include Geoffrey Hodson, whose gifts of clairvoyance were probably more developed and perhaps a bit more accurate even than Leadbeater's. Hodson contributed to our understanding of the life beyond death with many, many clairvoyant investigations, as well as writing five books that were distinctly given as gifts from the Angelic Kingdom, via the Archangel Bethelda. Other investigations teach much about the interrelationships between the Angels and Humanity, revealing the living network that includes the very least of the Angelic Kingdom and the very Greatest. According to such teachings, Christ (the World Teacher) comes to us alike as the Teacher of both Angels and of Men. This, I believe, is true to the Biblical Teaching.
What Geoffrey Hodson did, and what C. W. Leadbeater accomplished, was not by virtue of their exclusion to any kind of evolutionary law or principle ... it is because of it. It is owing to the same potential that is within us all, yet these individuals have been able to develop it, and to bring the functioning of these clairvoyant abilities under the control of the SOUL, rather than that of the personality. When the will of the lesser self gets in the way, the powers of clairvoyance can never find their full fruition. In the case of a CWL or a Geoffrey Hodson, the personality is able to stand considerably out of the way of the spiritual Will and - with painstaking time and training - the result is a Soul-guided power of investigation which can penetrate into worlds of matter billiions of times smaller than the tiniest sub-quarks as yet detectable by modern science.
It is not that science is going about the investigation incorrectly, except for that bold proclamation that no greater or more accurate means of investigation exists. This of course seals the door where otherwise there could be new discoveries, even stunning revelations, about the non-physical worlds.
Science errs, mainly, as does religion, in its reluctance to accept the powers of the human being as virtually or potentially limitless. Religion is the first to beat dear Icarus over the head, and once he sets foot again upon terra firma, science chains him to the floor of the Cave and scolds him for his effort. Icarus, after all, is only Prometheus unchained ... not yet certain about how to proceed with the divine inheritance which he has discovered to be his own. Curiously, imaginatively, determinedly ... and with the patience to hear others out, to investigate without bias, prejudice or expectation. This is how we must move forward.
When the skeptic in us chomps at the bit and bursts forth with a demand for credentials, with some authoritative proof of expertise, the student in us must put the skeptic in the back seat where he belongs, and listen long enough to have something to really sink our teeth into. If we are watching a TV show, reading an anecdotal account, what-have-you ... we must try and view the subject holistically, and set aside our preconceptions long enough to take matters to heart. Instead, we are wont to grasp the subject firmly with the blink of our eyelashes, and burn holes through it in an effort to dissect, analyze or boil it down. Some things, cannot be boiled down in order to get to their essence. They must simply be understood.
If we take them to heart in order to try and understand them, we must also remember to synthesize what we have heard, or considered, or watched (on TV). We must try and see how what was just said relates, or fits together, with other accounts, or with the teachings of Native Americans, or with something that the ancients used to believe, before they were enlightened by modern science.
When things are put together again, I'm pretty sure we might find elements which earlier were not apparent, or which we might never have suspected, yet which make all the difference in the world. Funny, how we didn't see those the first time around, or even the second ... or third (or perhaps, three hundredth?).
We are always cautious not to let others pull the proverbial wool over our eyes, but sometimes I think we forget to turn off our filters ... even long enough to SEE what is really directly before us. It certainly takes a whole lot more than physical vision, doesn't it?
I'm really just not that much into ghosts, or the afterlife, or even reincarnation, though these subjects do interest me, pretty much in that order, progressively. But I think the folk wisdom, or practical wisdom we all share, born from experience, is sometimes the most pointing ... and poignant. When you hear stories, preferably those with as strong an element of truth or historical fact as possible, regarding the method, or scenario of a given person's death, even murder -- say at a haunted house or the like -- don't you find that as you become absorbed by the tale, especially if you are directly present where events are supposed to have occurred, the hairs on the back of your neck really do stand up, and you really do get goose bumps?
If only we were a bit more psychically sensitive, I think we might be amazed (if not shocked out of our very wits) to recognize who, or what else was also present with us ... yes, in that very room, as we tuned in to the deceased in question.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Imagine, for a moment, being able to look out across the stars and see -- perhaps with a new type of scientific instrument yet to be invented -- not the physical bodies of other humanities, walking around upon their respective planets ... but the information, thoughts and ideas being exchanged at the speed of thought itself, by the minds of those INHABITING an outer form (a form similar to but not quite like our own). And imagine, at the very heart of each and every mind thus detected, by using this new technology stretched to the very farthest limits of its capacity, being able to catch a faint, fleeting glimmer of the very brightest Light which any piece of technology has yet detected.
To be precise, imagine that we were able to catch a glimpse of the Soul Itself, dancing magnificently within the heart of the mind of the being(s) in question ... thus detected by -- the Noetiscope. I have to invent a word, for what is currently -- as far as we know -- science fiction, yet for the clairvoyants I have already mentioned this is pure, science FACT. No technology was needed, however, to detect what also exists within each and every one of us (deep, deep within our most inspiring and uplifting of thoughts, in the world of Pure Virtue). But it TAKES an instrument, vibrating at the same approximate frequency, or range of oscillation, in order to DETECT a subject ... vibrating at this same frequency.
And this comes full circle back to the Catch-22, or reason why we do not currently have [a] scientific apparatus capable of detecting the non-physical states of matter ... and simply showing us all, plain & simple, that there is life after death, and a Soul, and so forth. Technically, we do have the instrumentality to detect non-physical matter ... but the instrument in question is the twofold equipment -- human consciousness, plus its vehicle of expression, and frankly, most folks are only used to using brain awareness with any degree of expertise ... and even then I'd hesitate to use that word too literally.
To be precise, imagine that we were able to catch a glimpse of the Soul Itself, dancing magnificently within the heart of the mind of the being(s) in question ... thus detected by -- the Noetiscope. I have to invent a word, for what is currently -- as far as we know -- science fiction, yet for the clairvoyants I have already mentioned this is pure, science FACT. No technology was needed, however, to detect what also exists within each and every one of us (deep, deep within our most inspiring and uplifting of thoughts, in the world of Pure Virtue). But it TAKES an instrument, vibrating at the same approximate frequency, or range of oscillation, in order to DETECT a subject ... vibrating at this same frequency.
And this comes full circle back to the Catch-22, or reason why we do not currently have [a] scientific apparatus capable of detecting the non-physical states of matter ... and simply showing us all, plain & simple, that there is life after death, and a Soul, and so forth. Technically, we do have the instrumentality to detect non-physical matter ... but the instrument in question is the twofold equipment -- human consciousness, plus its vehicle of expression, and frankly, most folks are only used to using brain awareness with any degree of expertise ... and even then I'd hesitate to use that word too literally.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Ha! Brain awareness.AndrewX said:
RiverMoonLady
RiverMoonLady
The only evidence I can offer for life after death is personal experience, and I have had so many contacts with dead people that I absolutely believe that it is true. There is just something about the human spirit (soul) that seems to never die and is able to make itself known in various ways to those who are not afraid.
Welcome to the place. I agree with you. You sound a tad "psychic." Some interesting work being done with instrumental transcommunication for establishing such contact for those of us without that natural ability-particularly impressed with the research related to "Timestream." Our now 10 y.o. grandson while between the ages of 2 and 3 would spontaneously speak of seeing "ghosts." Earl
Ben Masada
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Life after death is a Greek myth promoted by Hellenists and Christianity, which is hellenistic par excellence. According to the Jewish Scriptures, "The living know that they are to die; but the dead is no longer to know any thing; neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that's done under the son. (Eccl. 9:5,6)
Ben