I have a question for you, specifically. How do you interpret lust? Do you see it as separate from intimacy?
Yes.
I'd say lust is an unbridled desire, whether the object be another person particularly, or sex in general, or a desire for money, fame, power, as in all of the 'seven deadly sins' it's a form of addiction, a pursuit of gratification without limit and ontologically unsatisfying, as the desire arises in the individual and the individual is not a self-sustaining being.
... the problem with lust is that it objectifies other people ...
Yes, but that's a symptom. The prior problem is with the self ... as with alcoholism, for example, other people become collateral damage.
I'll share my perspective, of course, and that's that I view all material cravings as harmful to the pursuit of gnosis.
Yes, if they threaten to destabilise the self. Nevertheless, one hungers, one thirsts ... the distinction is whether the 'material craving' is necessary or not. So we fast and we undergo other ascetic exercises of self-denial, but always mindful that this should not become a thing in itself, otherwise we've fallen into another trap, and self-denial becomes masochism and then we're into psychologically dark places.
There used to be a thing with eastern ascetics who would demonstrate their abilities by pushing pins through themselves, or burying themselves alive, or walking on fire, of undergoing some other feat of endurance ... but to me, that's all this speaks of – endurance, nothing to do with how illumined or enlightened the person is, I fail to see the value.
(OTOH, certain ascetic exercises, such as those pursued by the shugenja in Japan – standing under pounding waterfalls, etc, have a value. That's not showmanship, but self-tempering.)
We have to tread carefully – Stylites, hermits, monastics, anchorites ... the belief in the
mortification of the flesh is dubious. Self-discipline, yes, but practices that induce pain or suffering is open to investigation.
This doesn't stop at lust. It includes hunger and exhaustion, which is why I also practice fasting and occasional sleep-deprivation; it's a way to conquer the desires of the flesh so that I can more wholly turn myself towards the One.
agreed. Don't read the above as contra to that practice ...
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It's all about the heart.
I rather think the Catholic view of 'sex' is a bit confused. OTOH, the 'two become one flesh' is when the heart is open toward the other without reserve, and is reciprocated, so the two become as one.
But the purpose of that reciprocation is to live in the love of God. Love is giving, not taking, lust is taking, not giving ...
The procreation thing is a bit of a curveball ...
