Hermetic Archetypes

[Cino]

Who he? I'll do a search later and get back to you on that one.

Neti Neti? He's neither here nor there, that kind of guy

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

There are some things that cannot be unlearned and some doors that cannot be reopened.

And never open doors if you don't dare to walk on through

 

[Cino]

And never open doors if you don't dare to walk on through

Why not? One can peek in?

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

Why not? One can peek in?

And be relegated to the position of a Peeping Tom? No, thats a very obscure position to my mind!

 

[Cino]

And be relegated to the position of a Peeping Tom? No, thats a very obscure position to my mind!

Maybe we have different connotations here. If by "opening doors" in this particular context you don't mean "initiating spiritual contact", then what do you mean?

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

"initiating spiritual contact"

Yes, that's what I mean. You can't touch the spirit if you're comfortable looking in from the doorstep (the threshold). 'Hands off' means no touch.

Mind you, the following is a creative exercise; not quoting scripture.

• [...] then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
• 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands

 

[Cino]

Yes, that's what I mean. You can't touch the spirit if you're comfortable looking in from the doorstep (the threshold). 'Hands off' means no touch.

But one can, and in my opinion should, take time to get a good impression of what is going on before committing to following any path which opens through such gateways or doors.

Thomas in your exercise knew Jesus, it was not a completely new turn for him.

Here's another exercise: In classical antiquity, there was a body of scripture about the "katabasis", with detailed roadmaps about which way to go at each junction. If someone wanted to undertake this journey into the underworld, it was important to know whether to turn left or right at the entrance, whether to drink from specific fountains or not, and so on.

In my opinion, not all spiritual doorways are worth entering, especially since turning back may not take one to where one started.

 

[stranger]

Mercury's light appears to us as Lucifer, distorted by impurities, what the alchemist calls ‘red sulfur' and is traditionally the devil but in reality is an illusion because it is a distorted image of Mercury. These impurities are the blackness that veils our true light being. Enter the Green Lion! “There is this one green lion, which closes and opens the seven indissoluble seals of the seven metallic spirits which torments the bodies, until it has perfected them, by means of the artist's long and resolute patience”
— ‘The Cosmopolite’ (16th century)

I think alchemical symbolism is great but a lot can hang on how it is used. Really it's a guide to something that's already happening inside, and the true artist imo is always someone greater than ourselves. We all seek healing, we all seek transformation, but if the thread of love does not reach all the way to that which is most high, we just have a cheapened version of perfection that I would not be interested in. There are already too many dead flies in that apothecary's ointment.

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

not all spiritual doorways are worth entering, especially since turning back may not take one to where one started.

Going back to where you started is circularity, as in rings, as in

committing

, as in the ouroborous (humanity?) canabilizing itself. With categorization [erotica is at the corner of the bookstore so don't let Little Johnny go there] you know what to avoid without having to rely on a rigid manual or code of conduct (which is circular/ritualistic like Confucionism); categorization is your armor; if you've seen one evil doer you've seen them all. Your sword is the strenght and determination to defy evil and bring certainty out of the vagueness and confusion (to shine a light on darkness.) That's to say, confrontation dispells all doubts when done right.

But I get your point; why even open a book by Anton Lavey? Better to put it in the trash where it belongs.

Here's an example of going in and defying evil;

 

[Cino]

Going back to where you started is circularity, as in rings, as in
committing
, as in the ouroborous (humanity?) canabilizing itself.

Also, it's not really an option, I think. It doesn't work that way.

But I get your point; why even open a book by Anton Lavey? Better to put it in the trash where it belongs.

Or the Bible, or the Bhagavad Gita? That's not what I meant (and as a bibliophile, I just can not put books in the trash). I meant, nothing we do is ever reversible, so it's prudent to think things through before rushing into every spiritual contact that becomes available.

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

Also, it's not really an option, I think. It doesn't work that way.

What doesnt work that way?

Or the Bible, or the Bhagavad Gita? That's not what I meant (and as a bibliophile, I just can not put books in the trash). I meant, nothing we do is ever reversible, so it's prudent to think things through before rushing into every spiritual contact that becomes available.

Thats a thought provoking paragraph. Anyway, hmm...not the bible or gita, though I might change my mind on that in time. I once trashed a book and dont regret it one bit, it's very righteous.

it's prudent to think things through

It's the ideal, but how much time do you have to think when you've just been absolutely overwhelmed? Events, and yes even miracles, happen WHERE and WHEN you least expect them. So how much time do you have to think?

You just met a woman on the elevator who took your breath away and the tension is out of this world, are you up for the challenge? I feel like there's always gonna be a bit of a leap of faith, because if not you'd never be suprised. You're functioning on intuition. Thats why I think categorization makes the mind better since it faciliates cognition.

There is a really good song precisely about this; being overwhelmed by God's presence. You should read the lyrcs and imagine that's you meeting God and you're singing to him. It's a little dull at first but the ending is fucking epic.

 

[Cino]

What doesnt work that way?

Life is not circular, like the Ouroboros, in my opinion. I can't go back (or forward) to a known position to start over.

It's the ideal, but how much time do you have to think when you've just been absolutely overwhelmed? Events, and yes even miracles, happen WHERE and WHEN you least expect them. So how much time do you have to think? You just met a woman on the elevator who took your breath away and the tension is out of this world, are you up for the challenge?

Weren't we discussing opportunities, "doors", opening in a spiritual context? So in the case you describe, she would be handing me a religious pamphlet or say something which indicated that such a door was opening?

I feel like there's always gonna be a bit of a leap of faith, because if not you'd never be suprised. You're functioning on intuition. Thats why I think categorization makes the mind better since it faciliates cognition. There is a really good song precisely about this; being overwhelmed by God's presence. You should read the lyrcs and imagine that's you meeting God and you're singing to him. It's a little dull at first but the ending is fucking epic.

"I have sung women in three cities, but it is all the same, and I will sing of the Sun. 'Pollo Phoibee, old tin pan, glory of Zeus' Aegis day, Shield of steel blue, th'heavens over us, hast for boss thy lustre gay..." - Ezra Pound's Cino

You see, I don't have any gods. I had a mystical revelation of no God, no presence, which was very surprising, as I was an ardent seeker. But I enjoy a good work of music or poetry!

Edited to add: the song you posted does express it well.

So, what's your thing? How do you navigate this existence you find yourself in?

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

Life is not circular, like the Ouroboros, in my opinion. I can't go back (or forward) to a known position to start over.

Exactly, it isn't. It's probably infinite. But that doesn't stop circularity from manifesting; societies cannibalizing or enslaving themselves. endlessly. Circles are energy expending repetitious cycles like the days a slave spends toiling under the sun [the scorching circle], his master [Society. a synonym of society is cirlce, as in circle of influence or to 'be known in certain circles'] which is why I wouldn't want to end up at the ol' starting place because I hate all that.

Weren't we discussing opportunities, "doors", opening in a spiritual context? So in the case you describe, she would be handing me a religious pamphlet or say something which indicated that such a door was opening?

The opportunity to love is spiritual since it's about two souls connecting, it needs hope which is energy manifested as a desire for a good outcome therefore is transcendant since it aims to go beyond the ordinary since love is idealistic. Also 2 is better than one. Multiplication is good for LIFE because the opposite of growth is decline, degradation, falling, regression.

"I have sung women in three cities, but it is all the same, and I will sing of the Sun. 'Pollo Phoibee, old tin pan, glory of Zeus' Aegis day, Shield of steel blue, th'heavens over us, hast for boss thy lustre gay..." - Ezra Pound's Cino

"I will sing of the white birds
In the blue waters of heaven"

What does Cino da Pistoia mean to you? You seem to like him a lot.

You see, I don't have any gods. I had a mystical revelation of no God, no presence, which was very surprising, as I was an ardent seeker. But I enjoy a good work of music or poetry!

God is the word and it's only one o away from good<--because God is infinite like the two oo in good. Oh, and God is good.

Oh, and the fact that emptiness and vacuity exist as a phenomena doesn't mean there isn't matter, or soul in matter, or that souls dont matter! (Or souls should matter! Less there be no God)

So, what's your thing? How do you navigate this existence you find yourself in?

I'm going to continue to dedicate my life to knowledge and goodness and acquire power in order to combat the forces of ignorance and spread light in the world. Life is spiritual and every aspect of it can be mastered, starting from the mind. So I'm going to achieve the highest level possible of mind power and use that for good (revolutionize some field, erradicate a problem humanity is facing, provide good works, set up the stage so that positive things can avalanche for the future.)

What about you?

Also if you want to get to know each other more dynamically, or so that we dont derail threads, we can communicate through Discord or whatever other instant message app.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

The opportunity to love is spiritual

I just want to say that:


Love is found and nurtured Within, not by attaching any significance to something external. We do not love objects, we love our Self and in turn love others for loving themselves. Agape . . . which is divine love, but to us, it is not towards anything other than one's Greater Self and to those who love their Greater Self. We find nature / objective universe to be at odds with our very existence and therefore adversarial to us, something to be separate from and/or manipulated beneficially.

The first order of business for even the simplest micro-organism is to survive, the next order is to propagate. The simple neurochemical releases that govern emotions such as love in this case, cannot be denied as a survival mechanism for the security of a Self-Conscious species as ourselves.

When we examine the progression of Love in mentally stable human beings we find there to be "falling in Love" which includes sexual attraction, possession, and domination. Once bearing child this Love transforms into a loving and caring for, if not the protective type of Love, again securing the propagation of species, after birth the Love again transforms into a rearing form of Love meant to keep the roaming male attached to the family unit.
___________________________
Texts of H☿D

 

[Cino]

Multiplication is good for LIFE because the opposite of growth is decline, degradation, falling, regression.

But unchecked growth doesn't work. In an organism, it's called "cancer".

What does Cino da Pistoia mean to you? You seem to like him a lot.

Interesting historical figure.

we can communicate through Discord or whatever other instant message app.

Thanks but I'm happy to keep it to this forum.

Start a new thread about something you care about, and we can exchange our views about it.

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

But unchecked growth doesn't work. In an organism, it's called "cancer".

But checked growth in a mind works exponentially, and a mind is higher dimension than a cell (cancer)

Growth leads some to become doctors and they can invent cures for diseases like cancer so that 1 person cures billions over time even after he's dead.

Interesting historical figure.

But you identify with him. Are you a lawyer or a poet?

 

[Cino]

But checked growth in a mind works exponentially, and a mind is higher dimension than a cell (cancer)

I'm not so sure. Minds have their pathologies, too - forming too many significant connections between arbitrary things is characteristic of schizophrenic disorders, for example.

Growth leads some to become doctors and they can invent cures for diseases like cancer so that 1 person cures billions over time even after he's dead.

Point taken, and yet, at least in my country, it is socioeconomic class which enables a person to choose a career as a medical doctor, i.e. it is the rich kids who tend to be selected for higher education, rather than the smart ones.

But you identify with him. Are you a lawyer or a poet?

I like poetry.

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

I'm not so sure. Minds have their pathologies, too

Which can be cured by minds, just like operating systems can debug themselves or be debuged by a superior operating system. Sometimes the hardware comes faulty straight out of the factory though.

forming too many significant connections between arbitrary things is characteristic of schizophrenic disorders, for example.

But also of geniuses since finding connections to things is what characterized Einstein, revolutionizing physics. Curiously enough you mention economics in the next paragraph and John Nash groundbreaking-math-genius who suffered schizophrenia won a Noble Prize in economics. (How's that for forming connections?)

Point taken, and yet, at least in my country, it is socioeconomic class which enables a person to choose a career as a medical doctor, i.e. it is the rich kids who tend to be selected for higher education, rather than the smart ones.

Yeah, that's because of capitalism and the schooling system which turns learning into conforming, and teaching into reverberating, starting from pre-school. Also the way they teach is plain stupid and they draw it out too long (as if to break you down)

I like poetry.

Any good one's to share? Even better if they are hymns to God. Also I'd like to see which most resonate with you.

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

When we examine the progression of Love in mentally stable human beings we find there to be "falling in Love" which includes sexual attraction, possession, and domination.

There's nothing wrong with sexual attraction though, and a considerable part of the population can fall in love without being possessive or domineering. It feels really good too. I dont think Darwinism can wave away that kind of magic.

 

[Cino]

Which can be cured by minds, just like operating systems can debug themselves or be debuged by a superior operating system. Sometimes the hardware comes faulty straight out of the factory though.

I'd like to see those self-healing OSes one day. Would make my work a lot easier. So far, the promise has been all vaporware.

Yes, psychotherapy works for most disorders, if that's what you mean by "minds curing minds", and I can personally testify to that. However, schizophrenia is unfortunately not one of the disorders where it has a proven effect. As far as I know, medication is still the only viable treatment for that.

But also of geniuses since finding connections to things is what characterized Einstein, revolutionizing physics. Curiously enough you mention economics in the next paragraph and John Nash groundbreaking-math-genius who suffered schizophrenia won a Noble Prize in economics. (How's that for forming connections?)

Good for John Nash! But to generalize from that one case you move onto rather uncertain ground.

Edited to add: Einstein was a truly great physicist. He built on the work of previous physicists, and those after him built on his work - this is how science works. The Lorentz Transformation which you may be alluding to as revolutionizing physics was already present in Maxwell's work, so the revolution we think of was already well underway when Einstein did his groundbreaking work, and he got to be the figurehead as history was written. He's one of my personal heroes.

Yeah, that's because of capitalism and the schooling system which turns learning into conforming, and teaching into reverberating, starting from pre-school. Also the way they teach is plain stupid and they draw it out too long (as if to break you down)

My point exactly. So, does mind determine living conditions like capitalism and schooling systems, or do living conditions determine what minds can do? So far, I read you as positing the primacy of the mind, now you sound like you changed your mind?

Any good one's to share? Even better if they are hymns to God. Also I'd like to see which most resonate with you.

That's not really a genre I resonate with, obviously. I love Leonhard Cohen's work, and I think his song "You Want it Darker" might qualify. It contains the words of praise of a famous prayer, and the lyrics have quite some depth, if unraveling obscure biblical references is your thing. I like it a lot.

We have a "Poetry" sub-section in the "Media" part of our forums. Why don't you start a thread and post a favorite of yours? I'll join in when the Muse moves me

If you're into devotional verses, check out our Baha'i sub-forum, where some really beautiful prayers get posted.