Bandit said:
RE: concerning the last post of Q/V, bass, and faithful,
I used to want to be a jew or at least felt like I was part Jew. But now I realize it is only the spirit of God in me that made me feel different than what is in the world.
Also after this trial, i am glad I am not a jew and am thankful to be a gentile. I will never wish to be a Jew ever again.
I used to blame Rome for there mistakes and creeds for religion, but I see now, that if it had been left in the hands of the Jews, we would never have gotten the truth of Jesus and not known what really happened because the jews would have done aweful things with the Gospels, much worse than what Rome did.
It all makes perfect sense to me now as to why things happened the way they did.
H0w awful this will be, when they put the antiChrist upon his seat to decieve the nations.
So it all worked out for the best! and we are in the end, it is all very obvious after this trial. God did indeed turn to the Gentile because the jews rejected the offering that he sent for our propitiation for sins.
Who is indeed, the risen Lord, the man Jesus.
Praise be to God!
As a Jew I find most of what you just said and much of what other people have been saying extremely rude and condescending. I came here to prosecute because it was a role that was asked.
Dauer- you are an awful judge, sorry but I hold you in contempt in your own court.
asking for physical evidence on a spiritual matter.
Well, I would say I'm an awful judge because I'm using phrases like "mangod" and such that can be of no benefit. Really, I don't think this case should have ever been about proving Christianity because it can't be done. I was really hoping someone would try to defend Christian beliefs and practices. Regardless of whether Jesus was the messiah or not, it does not suddenly validate using him as an object of worship. I really have no idea how anyone could defend their myths in a court of law.
Further, this whole thing to me has been such a farce as I said in my first posts. There is a mishna in Makkot that states one execution in 70 years is a murderous court. The other important thing to note here is that only the Sanhedrin, the High Court, can enact such a sentence. In Sanhedrin 4:5 it states
"Man was created single [in the person of Adam] to teach you that anyone who eliminates one person in Israel, the Torah considers it as though an entire world has been eliminated; and anyone that sustains one person in Israel, the Torah considers it as though an entire world has been sustained…. And [man was created single], to tell you the greatness of the Holy One, a person can mint many coins with one mold, and they will all be identical in appearance; and the King of Kings…made all of mankind from the mold of Adam the first, and no one person is identical to the other. Thus, each individual person must say "for me was the world created."
Clearly the value of a human life is very high. But there's more.
In Deut it is found that there must be at least two witnesses. These witnesses must agree with each other when they are each examined individually. The person commiting the crime has to be warned ahead of time that they are commiting a crime. Also, the person who charges another is required to personally carry out the sentence, and if it is found that they were lying about the other person, they will face the same sentence. Some direct quotes that are relevant:
Requirements for Conviction
Mishnah Sanhedrin 5.1-4
5.1 They used to prove witnesses with seven inquiries: In what week of years? In what year? In what month? On what day? In what hour? In what place? (R. Jose says: [They aked only,] On what day? In what hour? In what place?) [They also asked:] Do you recognize him? Did you warn him? If a man committed idolatry [they asked the witnesses], What did he worship? and, How did he worship it?
2. The more a judge tests the evidence the more he is deserving of praise: Ben Zakkai once tested the evidence even to inquiring about the stalks of figs. Wherein do the inquiries differ from the cross-examination? If to the inquiries one [of the two witnesses] answered, "I do not know," their evidence becomes invalid; but if to the cross-examination one answered, "We do not know," their evidence remains valid. Yet if they contradict one another, whether during the inquiries or the cross-examination, their evidence becomes invalid.
3. If one said, "On the second of the month," and the other said, "On the third," their evidence remains valid since one may have known the month was intercalated and the other did not know the month was intercalated; but if one said, "On the third," and the other said, "On the fifth," their evidence becomes invalid. If one said, "At the second hour," and the other said, "At the third," their evidence remains valid; but if one said, "At the third hour," and the other said, "At the fifth," their evidence becomes invalid. R. Judah says: It remains valid; but if one said, "At the fifth hour," and the other said, "At the seventh," their evidence becomes invalid since at the fifth hour the sun in in the east and at the seventh it is in the west.
4. They afterward brought in the second witness and proved him. If their words were found to agree together they begin [to examine the evidence] in favor of acquittal. If one witness said, "I have somewhat to argue in favor of his acquittal," or if one of the disciples said, "I have somewhat to argue in favor of his acquittal," they bring him up and set him among them and he does not come down from thence the whole day. If there is any substance in his words they listen to him. Even if the accused said, "I have somewhat to argue in favor of my acquittal," they listen to him, provided there is any substance to his words.
Postponement of Final Sentence Until the Day After Trial Under the Mishnah
Mishnah Sanhedrin 5.5
If they found him innocent they set him free; otherwise they leave his sentence over until the morrow. [In the meantime] they went together in pairs, they ate a little (but they used to drink no wine the whole day), and they discussed the matter all night, and early on the morrow they came to the court. He that favored acquittal says: "I declared him innocent and I still declare him innocent"; and he that favored conviction says, "I declared him guilty and I still declare him guilty." He that favored conviction may now acquit, but he that had favored acquittal [the day before] may not retract and favor conviction."
Capital Punishment To Be By Stoning
Mishnah Sanhedrin 6.1-4
1. When sentence has been passed, they take him forth to stone him. The place of stoning was outside the court, as it is written, Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp. One stands at the door of the court with a towel in his hand, and another, mounted on a horse, far away from him [but where he is able] to see him. If one [in court] said, "I have somewhat to argue in favor of his acquittal," that man waves the towel and the horse runs and stops him [the stoner]. Even if he himself said, "I have somewhat to argue in favor of my acquittal," they must bring him back, be it four times or five, provided that there is any substance in his words. If they found him innocent, they set him free; otherwise he goes forth to be stoned. A herald goes out before him [announcing], "Such-a-one, the son of such-a-one, is going forth to be stoned for that he committed such or such an offense. Such-a-one and such-a-one are witnesses against him. If any man knoweth anything in favor of his acquittal, come let him plead it."
2. When he was about ten cubits from the place of stoning they used to say to him, "Make your confession," for such is the way of them that have been condemned to death to make confession, for every one that makes his confession has a share in the world to come. For so we have found it with Achan. Joshua said to him, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the Lord, the God of Israel, and make confession unto him, and tell me now what you have done; hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua and said, Of a truth I have sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. Whence do we learn that his confession made atonement for him? It is written, And Joshua said, Why have you troubled us? The Lord shall trouble thee this day--this day you shall be troubled, but in the world to come you shall not be troubled. If he knows not how to make his confession they say to him, "Say, May my death be an atonement for all my sins." R. Judah says: If he knew that he was condemned because of false testimony he should say, "Let my death be an atonement for all my sins excepting this sin." They said to him: If so, every one would speak after this fashion to show his innocense."
3. When he was four cubits from the place of stoning, they stripped off his clothes. A man is kept covered in front and a woman both in front and behind. So R. Judah. But the Sages say: a man is stoned naked but a woman is not stoned naked.
4. The place of stoning was twice the height of a man. One of the witnesses knocked him down on his loins; if he turned over on his heart the witness turned him over again on his loins. If he straightaway died that sufficed; but if not, the second took the the stone and dropped it on his heart. If he straightaway died, that sufficed; but if not, he was stoned by all Israel, for it is written, The hand of the witnesses shall be firt upon him to put him to death and afterward all the hand of all the people. All that have been stoned must be hanged. So R. Eliezer. But the Sages say: None is hanged save the blasphemer and the idolater. A man is hanged with his face to the people and a woman with her face to the gallows. So R. Eliezer. But the Sages say: A man is hanged but a woman is not hanged. R. Eliezer said to them: Did not Simeon ben Shetah hang women in Ashkelon? They answered: He hanged eighty women, whereas two ought not to be judged in one day. How did they hang a man? They put a beam into the ground and a piece of wood juttted from it. The two hand were brought together and it was hanged. R. Jose days: The beam was made to lean against a wall and one hanged the corpse thereon as butchers do. And they let it down at once: if it remained there overnight a negative command is thereby transgressed, for it is is written, His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shall surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is a curse against God; as if to say, Why was this one hanged? Because he blessed the Name, and the Name of Heaven was found profaned.
Crimes Meriting Capital Punishment
Mishnah 7.4
These are they that are to be stoned: he that has connexion with his mother, his father's wife, his daughter-in-law, a male, or a beast, and the woman that suffers connexion with a beast, and the blasphemer and the idolator, and he that offers any of his seed to Molech, and he that has a familiar spirit and a soothsayer, and he that profanes the Sabbath, and he tht curses his father or his mother, and he that has a connexion with a girl that is betrothed, and he that beguiles [others to commit idolatry], and he that leads [a whole town] astray, and the sorcerer and a stubborn and rebellious son.
Verdicts in Capital Trials Only to be Reached in Daytime
[Under the Mishnah Tractate, Sanhedrin]
Mishnah Sanhedrin 4.1
In noncapital cases they hold trial during the daytime and the verdict may be reached during the night; in capital cases they hold the trial during the daytime and the verdict must also be reached during the daytime. In noncapital cases the verdict, whether of acquittal or of conviction, may be reached the same day; in capital cases a verdict of acquittal may be reached on the same day, but a verdict of conviction not until the following day.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/sanhedrin.html
As you can see, this whole thing was a farce, also because the Sadducees and Pharisees were freely mingling to condemn these people when in reality the S and P where two very conflicting groups.
Dauer
