Life After Life

mrym

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As at the time of death, the real and eternal self of man, his soul, abandons its physical garment to soar in the realms of God, we may compare the body to a vehicle which has been used for the journey through earthly life and no longer needed once the destination has been reached.

Universal House of Justice, Lights of Guidance, p. 201

The Matter of death and life after death has always been interesting for people. whether we believe in the existance of some kind of eternal substance in us or not, we will think about what the "end" will look like.

The Baha'i religion, like all other religions, tells us that this worldly material life is just a means to get to that eternal one. it is not the end; it is just the begining.
There's a substance in us humans that will survive the death of the physical body. that substance called "human soul" is something that does not exist in lower realms like the realm of minerals or animals. that human soul is the cause of our free will and the power of thinking and the cause of all human inventions. With all those benefits that come with having a human soul also comes the matter of being judged by a higher consciousness for what we have done in our lives; whether we have gotten closer to Reality or have we stepped far from it.

While the concepts of heaven and hell are very much talked about and known among all the believers of different religions, the Baha'i religion gives a new definition to these ancient concepts. The main point to remember is this:

Heaven and hell are conditions within our own beings.

Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 519


So, we do not wait to go to a place called heaven where all things are good or go to a place called hell with burning fire and bioling water being poured on souls. Next world is the world of spirit, not the world of materiality, BUT imagination is also a spiritual thing. and the tourture of hell or the reward of heaven can very well look like burning fire or green gardens IF that is how we imagine them. the next world being spiritual means anything we imagine can appear in front of us at that very moment whereas the material reality of this world does not let that happen easily. Thus, while we do not reject the possibility of being in a frightening atmosphere or a beautiful one in the next world, we believe that the reality of those places is spiritual, not physical.
Another important factor about the baha'i concept of heaven and hell is:

Think ye of love and good fellowship as the delights of heaven, think ye of hostility and hatred as the torments of hell.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 244

In other words, interestingly, those ideas and behaviors and conducts that couse pain and war in this world are the same -symbolically speaking- hell fire that will burn us in the next world. We may believe that the reward and punishment of the next world is physical like this world, but no physical pain , as an example, can be as bad and as never ending as regret and sorrow.

Furthermore, whereas some religions believe in a physical resurrection after death, we do not. Life after death, as we believe and I mentioned, is all spiritual. though, after going there we will still be who we are here; we will have hands and foot and head and hair and everything because we'll have our ethereal bodies.

In addition to that, we believe that human progression is a never ending process. All humans are created to finally reach their full potential and find the Truth and be with Him. but it takes time for each of us differently. So, in the next world, we'll still progress, some slower, some faster, towards getting better and better. all roads lead to Him at the end.

So, these are the main points for the begining. I do not wish to make it too long and thus make it boring :D I'd be glad to know everyone's idea on the subject.
 
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The Baha'i religion, like all other religions, tells us that this worldly material life is just a means to get to that eternal one. it is not the end; it is just the begining.

Buddhism would be a notable exception to your rule. There is no notion of eternal life in Buddhism, rather, life, in any realm of existence, is characterized by being impermanent.

Next world is the world of spirit, not the world of materiality, BUT imagination is also a spiritual thing. and the tourture of hell or the reward of heaven can very well look like burning fire or green gardens IF that is how we imagine them. the next world being spiritual means anything we imagine can appear in front of us at that very moment whereas the material reality of this world does not let that happen easily.

So someone experiencing hellfire in the next world would just have to imagine being in paradise, to "get there"?

What if someone in the next world imagines being back in this one, would they effectively be born into an existence in this world again?

I'd be glad to know everyone's idea on the subject.

I think the fact that our lifespans are limited is a defining feature of life in the first place. Eternity is a long time, things are bound to become petrified, or mechanically repetitive, and, well, deathly, over the course of an eternal existence.

As I wrote in another thread, I prefer the life-affirming religious views over the death-denying ones. Denial is a trap, in my experience.
 
It seems the Baha'i acknowledge an existence for the soul beyond physical death of the material body, but don't really define it too much -- apart from the idea of heaven as closer to God, and hell further away? I can't imagine a problem with that belief? It works for me
 
It seems the Baha'i acknowledge an existence for the soul beyond physical death of the material body, but don't really define it too much -- apart from the idea of heaven as closer to God, and hell further away? I can't imagine a problem with that belief? It works for me

RJM there is a lot written on this topic in the Baha'i Writings.

At the same time our potential has not been fully revealed to us in this life, as if we were to know, it is offered that would alter this reality.

Baha'u'llah allowed a demonstration of this. He gave a glimpse of the next life to a believer that kept asking that same question and that person took his own life, which is against Baha'i Laws.

Baha'u'llah said that act was forgiven. That demonstration allows us to have faith that God always looks out for each and every one of us, no matter what we face in this life.

I am happy to post many thoughts on this topic, but prefer to do it with what was offered in the Writings, so the meaning is not diluted by my own input.

Regards Tony
 
RJM there is a lot written on this topic in the Baha'i Writings.
There is a lot written in Baha'i writings, period, imo
am happy to post many thoughts on this topic, but prefer to do it with what was offered in the Writings, so the meaning is not diluted by my own input.
But nobody's prepared to read through all that olde worlde English stuff. Purpose of this thread ...
 
So someone experiencing hellfire in the next world would just have to imagine being in paradise, to "get there"?

What if someone in the next world imagines being back in this one, would they effectively be born into an existence in this world again?

The Writings offer that this world is a matrix to develop our spiritual limbs and this matrix also reflects spiritual realities.

So can a child who is born into this world without eyes or ears go back into the womb to grow those for use in this world. No and that answers that specific question.

Also we are told that we transition in the state we have obtained to in this world. So if we choose to get born again, that transition has started with all the required limbs for the next world.

If we remain remote from God it may be we are like a rock in the world to come, existing, but without the required attributes to have a conscious knowledge of that reality.

Now this is where as a Baha'i we really need to quote, as too much of our own concepts and understanding start to muddy the waters.

It would be great for this OP if the Baha'i were given some leeway to post actually quotes specific to questions asked. With some of our own explanations.

Regards Tony
 
But nobody's prepared to read through all that olde worlde English stuff. Point of this thread ...

It was revealed in Persian and Arabic, the translation into English was chosen as King James English, as Shoghi Effendi saw that as best available to impart the poetry of the mother tongues.

If we do not use quotes, you will get error.

Regards Tony
 
the translation into English was chosen as King James English
It's nothing like King James English. It's a complete parody of King James English. Nevertheless IMO go ahead and post your reams of pages ...
 
Buddhism would be a notable exception to your rule. There is no notion of eternal life in Buddhism, rather, life, in any realm of existence, is characterized by being impermanent.



So someone experiencing hellfire in the next world would just have to imagine being in paradise, to "get there"?

What if someone in the next world imagines being back in this one, would they effectively be born into an existence in this world again?



I think the fact that our lifespans are limited is a defining feature of life in the first place. Eternity is a long time, things are bound to become petrified, or mechanically repetitive, and, well, deathly, over the course of an eternal existence.

As I wrote in another thread, I prefer the life-affirming religious views over the death-denying ones. Denial is a trap, in my experience.

Interesting points you've brought up.

In my opinion the notion of "life in any world being characterized by impermanance" goes very well with the baha'i idea of eternal growth and progression. That being said, we don't talk about "the world" after this life but there are endless realms and stations which all of us eventually will go to.

Regarding the thing about imagination, first of all I should say that that extra bit was my personal view. I forgot to mention clearly. But your question's legit. My answer to that would be that each person based on the degree of maturity of his/her soul, cannot imagine things far above himself. That is to say a resident of hell (symbolically speaking) cannot suddenly imagine being in heaven because as I said, heaven and hell are states of the soul. If one is in great pain and regret, one cannot just jump out of it unless one thinks about it completely. Understanding and conscious realization (imo) helps people go up in the stations.
And I completely agree with you about the negative effects of denial of death. I don't think any religion or ideology in the world denies that fact. What we say is there is a time to stay in each realm. Nothing is permanent.
 
There is a lot written in Baha'i writings, period, imo
But nobody's prepared to read through all that olde worlde English stuff. Purpose of this thread ...

You are right about the language of the English translations. Even though for me it was just a matter of time before I got used to reading them. My original language is Persian and I can also understand Arabic but I almost always read the Baha'i scripture in English.
Yet, I have this plan to expand this thread by slowly slowly posting more stuff paraphrased by myself for an easier understanding. Just that at the moment there are great riots heating up in Iran with police forces shooting and gas bombing the rioters so mentally, I am in a bit of a shaky place. Soon I'll come back to the topic :)
 
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You are right about the language of the English translations. Even though for me it was just a matter of time before I got used to reading them. My original language is Persian and I can also understand Arabic but I almost always read the Baha'i scripture in English.
Yet, I have this plan to expand this thread by slowly slowly posting more stuff paraphrased by myself for an easier understanding. Just that at the moment there are great riots heating up in Iran with police forces shooting and gas bombing the rioters so mentally, I am in a bit of a shaky place. Soon I'll come back to the topic :)
Hang in there. Be very careful x
 
The Writings offer that this world is a matrix to develop our spiritual limbs and this matrix also reflects spiritual realities.

So can a child who is born into this world without eyes or ears go back into the womb to grow those for use in this world. No and that answers that specific question.

Also we are told that we transition in the state we have obtained to in this world. So if we choose to get born again, that transition has started with all the required limbs for the next world.

If we remain remote from God it may be we are like a rock in the world to come, existing, but without the required attributes to have a conscious knowledge of that reality.

Now this is where as a Baha'i we really need to quote, as too much of our own concepts and understanding start to muddy the waters.

It would be great for this OP if the Baha'i were given some leeway to post actually quotes specific to questions asked. With some of our own explanations.

Regards Tony

I always wished I could have a great memory to memorize quotes and prayers etc but that is one thing I am not endowed with so I hope as I go on putting stuff here paraphrased by myself, you and others can help mentioning the original pieces :) thank you for your cooperation already.
 
Buddhism would be a notable exception to your rule. There is no notion of eternal life in Buddhism, rather, life, in any realm of existence, is characterized by being impermanent.

This is worth exploring may be through a story?

This is a Buddhist story I found that illustrates a point we can discuss.

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/sto...ism-finds-eternal-life-beyond-self/478601002/

A man once asked the Buddha if he was a deva, a god like the deities in the Hindu Vedas. “No, sir, I’m not” the Buddha answered. Then the man followed up by asking him if he was a creature of some other kind — a gandhabba, an elf who lives in the clouds, or a yakka, a wild nature spirit. The Buddha said no and no again. Finally, the man asked the Buddha if he was a human being, and this too the Buddha denied. Then the man said in bewilderment, “Well then, what sort of being are you?” The Buddha answered, “I’m awake.”

Regards Tony
 
I always wished I could have a great memory to memorize quotes and prayers etc but that is one thing I am not endowed with so I hope as I go on putting stuff here paraphrased by myself, you and others can help mentioning the original pieces :) thank you for your cooperation already.

You have the bounty of understanding what is written in the original language, with the context also available to you.

I always love your thoughts and replies and have learnt a lot from your replies.

Regards Tony
 
That indicates that no replies would be welcome.

Regards Tony
No. It means replies in your own words would be preferred to reams of Baha'i tracts. But that's just me. My eyes glaze over. Perhaps there are people out there dying to wade through acres of Baha'i tracts stuff ...
 
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This is worth exploring may be through a story?

This is a Buddhist story I found that illustrates a point we can discuss.

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/sto...ism-finds-eternal-life-beyond-self/478601002/

A man once asked the Buddha if he was a deva, a god like the deities in the Hindu Vedas. “No, sir, I’m not” the Buddha answered. Then the man followed up by asking him if he was a creature of some other kind — a gandhabba, an elf who lives in the clouds, or a yakka, a wild nature spirit. The Buddha said no and no again. Finally, the man asked the Buddha if he was a human being, and this too the Buddha denied. Then the man said in bewilderment, “Well then, what sort of being are you?” The Buddha answered, “I’m awake.”

Regards Tony

:) Well, "Buddha" literally means "awake(ned) one" in Pali and Sanskrit.

In a similar version of this story from the Buddhist scriptures, the other person, Upaka, the first person the Buddha spoke to after his Awakening, upon hearing the Buddhas grandiose claims ("I am the all-transcender, knower of worlds ... nobody taught me, I am the Awakened One") shakes his head and walks away, saying, "if only...".

Edit: Here's a translation of the text. The episode regarding Upaka starts with Paragraph 7:

https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/vinaya-2-the-mahavagga/d/doc369999.html
 
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:) Well, "Buddha" literally means "awake(ned) one" in Pali and Sanskrit.

In the original version of this story from the Buddhist scriptures, the other person, upon hearing the Buddhas grandiose claims, shakes his head and walks away, saying, "if only...".

It may be interesting that that story is fully reconciled in my chosen path.

Dying to self to be awake, I see is the foundation of all Faiths.

Regards Tony
 
No. It means replies in your own words would be preferred to reams of Baha'i tracts. But that's just me. My eyes glaze over. Perhaps there are people out there dying to wade through acres of Baha'i tracts stuff ...

I would be interested to know more about you RJM. I see you work with Glass, do you have a link to any of your work? PM me if you have, my wife is an artist.

I would be interested as to what scriptures have you read? Also are you a Catholic, as I could understand why you do not read scriptures, as I have very good frien6that are Catholic and they did tell me they do not read the Bible, that is why they go to Mass, as the priest informs them.

Regards Tony
 
It may be interesting that that story is fully reconciled in my chosen path.

Dying to self to be awake, I see is the foundation of all Faiths.

Regards Tony

But that is something else entirely from everlasting life.
 
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