There is no justice if atheism is true

Namaste Jesus

Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai
Moderator
Messages
3,842
Reaction score
1,190
Points
108
Location
Between Celestial Planes
The title and question posed by the OP imply that Life would be a horrible, hedonistic mess of people running around murdering and raping because there is no Justice in an atheistic world. That, to me, is an attack on the non-religious.
Well, I don't read all that into the title of this thread, the originator of the sentiment was expressing his pov and has explained his position. I don't happen to agree with the sentiment myself and have so stated in the thread it was originally posted. From my pov, God's justice is there whether you believe in him or not. Others may disagree and that's fine. I'm not going to trash anyone's beliefs over it and keep insisting I'm right and your wrong. That only leads to hard feelings on both sides. At some point you just have to agree to disagree and accept that anti-religious statements on a faith based forum will not bode well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Well, I don't read all that into the title of this thread, the originator of the sentiment was expressing his pov and has explained his position. I don't happen to agree with the sentiment myself and have so stated in the thread it was originally posted. From my pov, God's justice is there whether you believe in him or not. Others may disagree and that's fine. I'm not going to trash anyone's beliefs over it and keep insisting I'm right and your wrong. That only leads to hard feelings on both sides. At some point you just have to agree to disagree and accept that anti-religious statements on a faith based forum will not bode well.
And that's your right to believe so, I on the other hand believe there is no spiritual judge (god) however, that Man inherently knows what is Good & Evil, that judgment/justice prevails because of our Conscience, not from a script.
 

muhammad_isa

Save Our Souls
Messages
3,274
Reaction score
702
Points
108
Location
Worcester UK
The title and question posed by the OP imply that Life would be a horrible, hedonistic mess of people running around murdering and raping because there is no Justice in an atheistic world..
I can understand why such a title might seem provoking, but it has been explained what was meant by it several times..

This is tiresome.
Yes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
And that's your right to believe so, I on the other hand believe there is no spiritual judge (god) however, that Man inherently knows what is Good & Evil, that judgment/justice prevails because of our Conscience, not from a script.
And you have space and respect here to believe that
 

Namaste Jesus

Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai
Moderator
Messages
3,842
Reaction score
1,190
Points
108
Location
Between Celestial Planes
And that's your right to believe so, I on the other hand believe there is no spiritual judge (god) however, that Man inherently knows what is Good & Evil, that judgment/justice prevails because of our Conscience, not from a script.
Excellent! See, we both calmly shared our opinion. We don't completely agree with one another, yet there is some common ground. Done, no need to bicker any further. :)
 

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
True but wasn't it in regards to something a theist implied?
Oh FFS!
Ok, I will repost this for the last time:
In this thread:

In response to this comment #284 by @muhammad_isa

@Ahanu posts #290:

It is in response to the above exchange that @Aupmanyav opens this new thread:
There is no justice if atheism is true
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20409/
with the OP post:

This I believe is the context of the OP?
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Oh FFS!
Ok, I will repost this for the last time:
No, they are not "just stories".

Take Hitler, for example.
Your belief means that Hitler escaped answering for the suffering that he caused others,
by committing suicide.

The correct Christian belief, is that he will not escape judgement.
Divine justice is perfect, Holy.
You can ask @Thomas if you don't believe me.
Ahanu: Great point. There is no justice if atheism is true.
I don't know why anyone is telling me that my take on this is wrong, apparently, it isn't. This thread's OP lifted the statement from a Theist who is implying that in an Atheistic world there is no Justice. That is simply BS.
 

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
I don't know why anyone is telling me that my take on this is wrong, apparently, it isn't. This thread's OP lifted the statement from a Theist who is implying that in an Atheistic world there is no Justice. That is simply BS.
The whole context is in relation to eventual justice aka: afterlife, karma, whatever? Are you able to accept that? As the original intention of the discussion, I mean?
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
The whole context is in relation to eventual justice aka: afterlife, karma, whatever? Are you able to accept that?
Accept what? That "The whole context is in relation to eventual justice aka: afterlife, karma"? I can see that it is. Didn't I just say that?
Do I accept that after physical demise there is some kind of retribution for the life one has lived? Absolutely not.
 

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
Accept what? That "The whole context is in relation to eventual justice aka: afterlife, karma"? I can see that it is. Didn't I just say that?
Do I accept that after physical demise there is some kind of retribution for the life one has lived? Absolutely not.
Ok, fine.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
The way the Western Left Hand Path addresses this is; our physical incarnation is to extract the maximum utility from one's physical incarnation. Life is about designing, developing, and evolving our personal subjective universe to which we will enter as the deity of that universe. To waste one's life, not in pursuit of this, is counterproductive to the Western Left Hand Path to which upon physical demise and further incarnations one finds themself not any further along their spiritual pursuit than when they last exited.
 

Ahanu

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,735
Reaction score
333
Points
83
In my country, Christians are no longer a majority (they are the largest religious group). Chaos has so far failed to ensue.

Across the Baltic sea, the Scandinavian countries are largely secular. Likewise, the rule of law and the ethical behavior of the inhabitants are not in danger.

Parenting and community life are not dependent on religion. We have libraries, schools, theaters, sports clubs, art studios, street markets, self-organized community centers (secular), and yes, religious communities. The latter do not hold a monopoly on moral fortitude, as far as I can tell.

How about your community?
Religion still plays a large role in the community I grew up in. Christianity is still the majority.

I am assuming you grew up in Germany. Maybe you can start a new thread about our local communities and start from there if you're interested.
 

Ahanu

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,735
Reaction score
333
Points
83
China has the highest percentage of Atheists. China is the 3rd wealthiest country in the world.

This sounds like a new thread.

Again, I originally asked if there are any poor regions in the world in which the majority are atheists.

China's wealth is mostly concentrated in its coastal cities, where a majority of the population lives. Many Chinese are wealthier than Americans in some regions. China is huge. According to Wikipedia, an estimated 58% of Xinjiang's population is Muslim. I am not sure about other inner regions of China where wealth is less concentrated. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of each province in China according to religious demographics.
 

Cino

Big Love! (Atheist mystic)
Admin
Messages
3,773
Reaction score
2,023
Points
108
Location
Germany
I am assuming you grew up in Germany. Maybe you can start a new thread about our local communities and start from there if you're interested.
Actually, I grew up in Asian countries.

A thread about our local communities would be awesome!
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
This sounds like a new thread.

Again, I originally asked if there are any poor regions in the world in which the majority are atheists.

China's wealth is mostly concentrated in its coastal cities, where a majority of the population lives. Many Chinese are wealthier than Americans in some regions. China is huge. According to Wikipedia, an estimated 58% of Xinjiang's population is Muslim. I am not sure about other inner regions of China where wealth is less concentrated. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of each province in China according to religious demographics.
"According to a 2012 Gallup poll, 47% of Chinese people were convinced atheists, and a further 30% were not religious. In comparison, only 14% considered themselves to be religious"

Burundi is the poorest country in the world, 86% of the population practices some form of Christianity
Somalia is the second poorest country and have a 99% Muslim population
Mozambique is 3rd with 56.1% of the population practicing Christianity, 17.9% practicing Islam, and the remaining with the remaining 26% either practicing a different religion or being agnostic/atheist.
5th is Madagascar with over half of the country's population still practicing indigenous beliefs, 41% of the population are practicing Christians, 7% are Muslim

So the top 5 poorest countries in the world are of some Abrahamic faith.

The top 5 Atheist countries are:
  • China - 103,907,840 — 181,838,720
  • India - 102,870,000
  • Japan - 81,493,120 — 82,766,450
  • Vietnam - 66,978,900
  • Russia - 34,507,680 — 69,015,360
So, I don't think being a poor country equates to being atheists, just the opposite.
 
Top