The Fundamentals Of Christianity

[Faithfulservant]

I felt compelled to post this topic because I wanted to point out that in any religion there are always extremes.. Reading the following list that forms the basics for Fundamentalism in Christianity.. I fall under this catergory. I believe each and every single one of these things without a shadow of a doubt. I have seen some bashing and stereotyping of Fundamentalist Christians on this board and I would like to ask for a bit more tolerance that I have come to expect from this site. I am curious as to how many people that participate on this forum believe these things and could be considered Fundamentalists.


The five "fundamentals" of Christian belief that were enumerated in a series of 12 paperback volumes containing scholarly essays on the Bible that appeared between 1910 and 1915, entitled The Fundamentals. Those included:

1. Biblical inerrancy
2. The divinity of Jesus
3. The Virgin Birth
4. The belief that Jesus died to redeem humankind
5. An expectation of the Second Coming, or physical return, of Jesus Christ to initiate his thousand-year rule of the Earth, which came to be known as the Millennium.

 

[Bandit]

On questions 2 thru 5 my answer is YES. Not just because I need somthing to believe in, but the Holy Ghost in me is my second witness.

On question 1 my answer is also yes, but people have tried along the way to add, take away and change it, destroy it, mislead others with there opinions on it... but the BIG PICTURE is still there.

Main Entry: in·fal·li·ble
Pronunciation: (")in-'fa-l&-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin infallibilis, from Latin in- + Late Latin fallibilis fallible
1 : incapable of error : [size=-1]UNERRING[/size] <an infallible memory>
2 : not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint : [size=-1]CERTAIN[/size] <an infallible remedy>
3 : incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals

I find NO ERROR in the Word of God at all. But I do see some error in the way it has been handled through the ages to try and persuade others, even in the OT.
We have the ability to find fault with everything and anything, but I honestly find no fault in the bible. Even after researching how it was put together and who did what to it.
No one was able to change what it was supposed to do for us if we give it a chance.
The bible itself does not mislead or decieve


So in one place it says he was 20 years old in another it says he was 42 years old. So what!
No one can physically prove what happened did not happen. So it depends on the approach of the person.
I believe these things are the way they are ON PURPOSE.

They complain because Paul said "My Gospel". Well guess what brothers and sisters...It is MY GOSPEL. It is Bandits Gospel too
Praise God...I am not letting go of the written Word. How about you?

 

[Quahom1]

I felt compelled to post this topic because I wanted to point out that in any religion there are always extremes.. Reading the following list that forms the basics for Fundamentalism in Christianity.. I fall under this catergory. I believe each and every single one of these things without a shadow of a doubt. I have seen some bashing and stereotyping of Fundamentalist Christians on this board and I would like to ask for a bit more tolerance that I have come to expect from this site. I am curious as to how many people that participate on this forum believe these things and could be considered Fundamentalists.


The five "fundamentals" of Christian belief that were enumerated in a series of 12 paperback volumes containing scholarly essays on the Bible that appeared between 1910 and 1915, entitled The Fundamentals. Those included:

1. Biblical inerrancy
2. The divinity of Jesus
3. The Virgin Birth
4. The belief that Jesus died to redeem humankind
5. An expectation of the Second Coming, or physical return, of Jesus Christ to initiate his thousand-year rule of the Earth, which came to be known as the Millennium.

Hello Faithful and Bandit,

I don't know about #1., for alot of reasons (that would take all the band width of this forum to express). Bottom line I guess is that the Bible was written by man, not directly by God...not like the 10 commandments given to Moses, see what I'm getting at? God never told man to write the Bible either. He did tell certain people to "write these things you see down", but He never said, "collect all, bind it and call it the Book of God". Nor did God appoint certain "scholars" to get together and decide what went into this great book and what did not. Nor did God warn man not to take nor add to the "Bible", for fear of retribution...man did that.

When I was a child, I thought the Bible was "written by the hand of GOD" directly. That was how I was brought up. Then as a teen, I found out the the Latin Vulgate that I'd grown up with was not the same as the King James, or the NIV, or a whole slew of other "Bibles". And there were things added, and taken out of all of them...where was the hand of GOD, punishing these people for messing with His word? Answer, maybe He didn't hand write the Bible. Maybe particular interest groups put certain warnings in to keep the masses in line and UNDER THEIR CONTROL...not God's.

So, in short, I love the book and what it teaches about man, but I'm not certain of it's "inerrancy", as to literalness.

#2 I can't explain it, and maybe that is the way it should be, but I too have been around this world, and at home. I've seen and done things, that nobody could fully appreciate, nor might fully appreciate... (unless they lived my life...same goes for me living anothers...), but I "KNOW" Jesus is it. Those that question this, will never understand unless they receive enlightenment from Him. Those that understand this have already been touched by Him. Some of us asked for it, and some of us didn't - but got it anyway (I call them the reluctant warriors). And some, were born knowing this "truth". Them folk are truly blessed.

#3 That is an easy one. Virgin births take place even today from time to time. However, the "child" is always a female with identical DNA to the mother, a natural "clone" if you will. The miracle here is that Jesus was a male born of a virgin. That requires "faith".

#4 Once I dreamt I was there when it happened...I believe.

#5 I don't think Jesus ever broke his word to date. So, this one is only a matter of time (which is probably good for mankind, or some of them still riding the fence).

Now, you might ask how I could believe in 2 through 5 if I have doubts about 1?

#1 is a book, the rest is an act of faith...

Hey, who cares? Sailors ain't supposed to know how to read anyway...

v/r

Q

 

[Dor]

1. Yes. True people have tried to add to and take away from it and of course there are typos in originals and copies(how many of us havent had a typo in a post) but I beloeve the farther back you are able to go toward the originals the so called errors are less common.

2. No doubt about this at all. Some of the things I have seen and experienced going across this world leaves no room to question this.

3.yes as Q said virgin birth wasnt the miracle it was a male virgin birth.

4. Definate YES, once I believed this and opened that door its by far the one thing in this world Im absolutely sure of.

5. I have never had anyone show me a lie he said either. It is just for us to wait patiently for, he does things in his own way at his time not when we want him too.

#1 is a book, the rest is an act of faith...

Yes I see this, but I see it also as an act of faith to believe they were inspired and directed by Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit in what they wrote. Also in what was later decided to include in the book .

 

[Faithfulservant]

I also believe that there are typos and mistranslations in the bible.. where its infalliable is the interpretation of the Holy Spirit to the believer. That in effect makes it infalliable to me because he is THE witness of God the Father and Jesus the Son.

 

[Bandit]

I also believe that there are typos and mistranslations in the bible.. where its infalliable is the interpretation of the Holy Spirit to the believer. That in effect makes it infalliable to me because he is THE witness of God the Father and Jesus the Son.

These are only a few

Is.34:15 There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.
16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Eph3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:16,

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began;"
Titus 1:2,

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do
well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a
dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in
your hearts:...For the prophecy came not in old time by the
will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by
the Holy Ghost."
2 Peter 1:19, 21,

 

[Bandit]

So I guess that it is it. Out of over 1000 members, only 4 people see any of this.

 

[Basstian]

1. Biblical inerrancy
2. The divinity of Jesus
3. The Virgin Birth
4. The belief that Jesus died to redeem humankind
5. An expectation of the Second Coming, or physical return, of Jesus Christ to initiate his thousand-year rule of the Earth, which came to be known as the Millennium.

1 takes faith that you are being lead right by the Spirit

2 I believe Jesus to be the Son of God simple as that

3 I wasn't there but according to prophecy He had to be according to the new test. He was so my faith in Gods word and faithfulness and truth I say yes

4 Yes

5 Physical return yes. Rule yes. Specifics of the 1000 yr. No (I dont say that to start a debate over it.)


Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

There is my fundamental belief.
I have seen churches calling themselves Christian yet saw no light in them.
I come off as being legalistic wanting to throw everybody under the bondage of the law.
But again the Bible says Do we make void the law thru faith? We establish the law.
I dont mean to be offensive its not my nature and I feel bad when thats how this text you see on your screen appears.

 

[Quahom1]

1 takes faith that you are being lead right by the Spirit

2 I believe Jesus to be the Son of God simple as that

3 I wasn't there but according to prophecy He had to be according to the new test. He was so my faith in Gods word and faithfulness and truth I say yes

4 Yes

5 Physical return yes. Rule yes. Specifics of the 1000 yr. No (I dont say that to start a debate over it.)


Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

There is my fundamental belief.
I have seen churches calling themselves Christian yet saw no light in them.
I come off as being legalistic wanting to throw everybody under the bondage of the law.
But again the Bible says Do we make void the law thru faith? We establish the law.
I dont mean to be offensive its not my nature and I feel bad when thats how this text you see on your screen appears.

Good Evening Bass,

There are what, 7 gifts, that the Holy Spirit bestows upon the faithful?

One gift is a strange one, because it cannot be verified by others, and as such makes those that get it some of the lonliest of people, and the least believed...would you not agree? It is the gift of discernment. Human lie detector...To be able to tell the truth from bull (spiritually speaking).

It is not easy when others do not understand you...

v/r

Q

 

[Faithfulservant]

totally I dont know if I have the gift of discernment but I pray for discernment when Im troubled with something I read and I have yet to have a question unanswered. So I trust in the conviction that the Spirit gives me and Its hard to try to get someone to understand something.. even though I pray for it.. Thank you Q that was a great thought provoking post.

 

[didymus]

I would like to comment on the Bible discussion you are having here. I say this as one who was in christian circls for a while. I too felt the power of God and felt that Jesus touched me.My quandry is that I never agreed with the overall doctrine of christianity.

I believe Christians are touched by God because they seek Him so fervently. I believe that menmbers of other religions also experience this; judaism, muslim etc. God rewards those that seek Him. We are all blessed.

As far asthe Bible goes, I believe it has been tampered with. I base this on research I have doen and articles read about the translations from Greek to Latin and English and the old Hebrew texts. At times words were put in and verb tenses were changed. There are far too many cases of this to dismiss. However, I believe that the Bible in and of itself is good and holy. Everytime I read it I feel a sense of peace come over me. I do distinguish what it says from what is preached. There is no doctrine to be found in the Bible, it has been interpreted and turned into something very different from what Jesus preached.

Was Jesus born of a virgin? I don't think so anymore. Mark, the first gospel says nothing of it. Why would it be left out. It suddenly appears in Luke, Matthew 20 -30 years later. Paul , whose letters precede Mark don't mention virgin birth either. In fact Paul said Jesus was the greatest man ever born of woman. A virgin birth is far too miraculous an event to be left out of the first gospel. Also, the defiition of virgin had various meanings in those days. I forgot what they were but it wasn't just a woman who never had sex. It may have meant a young woman or a young woman that hadn't menstruated yet.

 

[Quahom1]

I would like to comment on the Bible discussion you are having here. I say this as one who was in christian circls for a while. I too felt the power of God and felt that Jesus touched me.My quandry is that I never agreed with the overall doctrine of christianity.

I believe Christians are touched by God because they seek Him so fervently. I believe that menmbers of other religions also experience this; judaism, muslim etc. God rewards those that seek Him. We are all blessed.

As far asthe Bible goes, I believe it has been tampered with. I base this on research I have doen and articles read about the translations from Greek to Latin and English and the old Hebrew texts. At times words were put in and verb tenses were changed. There are far too many cases of this to dismiss. However, I believe that the Bible in and of itself is good and holy. Everytime I read it I feel a sense of peace come over me. I do distinguish what it says from what is preached. There is no doctrine to be found in the Bible, it has been interpreted and turned into something very different from what Jesus preached.

Was Jesus born of a virgin? I don't think so anymore. Mark, the first gospel says nothing of it. Why would it be left out. It suddenly appears in Luke, Matthew 20 -30 years later. Paul , whose letters precede Mark don't mention virgin birth either. In fact Paul said Jesus was the greatest man ever born of woman. A virgin birth is far too miraculous an event to be left out of the first gospel. Also, the defiition of virgin had various meanings in those days. I forgot what they were but it wasn't just a woman who never had sex. It may have meant a young woman or a young woman that hadn't menstruated yet.

Welcome to CR Dyd.

You pose a curious thought. If you "felt" Jesus...then why are you questioning the Bible? Seriously, It seems to me that those who felt God would be other than inclined to question His "Word". But you do question it...

You claim to have more experience with Jesus than most of us do, yet you question the validity of it. What a stout heart you must have. I'm not teasing you Dyd. I'm very curious about your thoughts.

What is it that makes you question? Virgin birth aside (that is an easy one).

You remind me of another of our group...her name is Sacred Star...so you see, I'm not kidding with you (just ask her)

Again, Welcome to CR. I hope you enjoy being here.

v/r

Q

 

[Bandit]

However, I believe that the Bible in and of itself is good and holy. Everytime I read it I feel a sense of peace come over me. I do distinguish what it says from what is preached. There is no doctrine to be found in the Bible, it has been interpreted and turned into something very different from what Jesus preached.

Welcome to the boards Dyd

Stick with what you are seing there. Don't believe everything people and preachers write and say about it.
I trust the bible and I trust in Jesus. They have never failed me.
It does not take a rocket scientist or modern scholar approach to have faith and let God lead and feed us today.

 

[Quid Est Veritas]

I was raised as fundamentalist as they come...the basic 5 fundamentals as stated and then the dreaded "D" word was almost fundamental #6 (and by the "D" word I mean "dispensationalism"...but that's a whole other topic). In my short 20-some-odd years though, I have drifted much further left than I ever dreamed.

#1 - I used to see this as absolute necessity, but really don't anymore. I see the Bible (and most of the world's other sacred writings) as the "success stories" of man's attempted encounters with God. The Bible is a record of how man has encountered the Divine, and offers a "blueprint" of sorts on how to encounter God according to its Judeo-Christian tradition. I believe that what it teaches is 100%, but not all of it actually happened. The Bible should be read more like one of Aesop's Fable (true in principle) rather than the Newspaper (true in fact).

#2 - I truly believe that Jesus was divine, but to what extent I don't think we can ever know. Whether "fully God and fully man" I am not sure, but I do believe that God was incarnated in him to some undeterminable extent.

#3 - I believe this was possible and is probable in the case of Jesus, but this does not seem very much of an "essential" doctrine as the previous two.

#4 - Now this one is a toughie. Jesus dying to "redeem" mankind can be taken so many ways. He could have meant to merely "redeem" mankind by His teachings and legacy, not necessarily a simple "transferred penalty" interpretation. I believe he came to redeem and set free mankind, who was in captivity to its own selfishness and "sin", but I do not like to get to doctrinally dogmatic because Christ could have meant his "redemption" in many ways, not just a singular exclusive way.

#5 - I do not know...He may or may not...could be literal or figurative, either way, I know I am gonna make it to heaven, whatever heaven may be.

 

[Faithfulservant]

its simple.. You either believe or you dont believe. There is not happy middle ground where you can say maybe.. or who knows. He told us to believe in him.. believe that he was on this earth that he lived a sinless life.. he was an innocent man that died for the sins of us all.. That he resurrected and left to prepare a place for us to wait for his return. If you cannot believe the bible is the written word of God.. then how are you going to believe that Jesus was divine and man born of a virgin birth.. then how are you going to believe anything?

Seems to me in this day and age.. we're all too smart for our own good.

 

[Basstian]

Was Jesus born of a virgin? I don't think so anymore. Mark, the first gospel says nothing of it. Why would it be left out. It suddenly appears in Luke, Matthew 20 -30 years later. Paul , whose letters precede Mark don't mention virgin birth either. In fact Paul said Jesus was the greatest man ever born of woman

Matthew a tax collector starts his gospel with records geneology to prove the line of David thus proving those prophecys true and accurate. Not everything we read in Mattethew will describe every Detail of Jesus. But if we want Facts like you would record in a county office here is Matthew.

Mark seems to have followed Peter to Rome and more than that Gotten the whole story thru Peters eyes. He was not taken with Paul because as a young man he bailed out on Paul and Barnabas in pamphpylia. According to tradition he was young and when seeing the sickness in the city left and headed back home which deeply disturbed Paul. He is Peters version best we can tell.

Luke is from an I want to know everything about Jesus's life view. He was Pauls doctor and when sickness struck joined Paul and stayed on board trough out most of the action. His accout very well could have came from many of those who had walked with Jesus even Mary herself while was in Israel could have given him this information. Later in his life he desided to write a Friend the whole Story. We have Luke and Acts written by and to the same man. I like the fact Luke wasnt there for everything and I feel him being a doctor he would not be quick to write of things he hadnt proven for fact. Reading both works together Gives a very Nice perspective of the Birth of Christianity not just Christ.

John well I believe he shows heart feeling that the others where to manly to show. He shows the love of Christ IE(Jesus wept, For God so Loved) I think maybe John writes from the heart like this because he watched a dear Friend suffer so much. His details of the days and minutes leading to the cross can still make people tearry eyed today he writes the PASSION of CHRIST and in doing so gives us a perspective that the others would leave us cold on.

When you study these Gospels remember the writers where at onetime ordinary men like ourselves. They had jobs and lives outside their faith but yet were drew towards Christ and devoted their lives to Him by what they saw and heard. Read each one from the mindset of the author. Not to use Luke to disprove John or Matthew to disprove Mark but as a great view of Christ from 4 different personalities 4 different men who's lives were changed because of what they saw and heard from those who saw.

Remember Matthew being a tax collector may have never asked Mary if she was a virgin when Christ was born. But Luke being a Doctor may have said " I want to know everything about it" and Mary opened up and told him very private details. Not seeing every detail in every gospel is one of the most convincing things we have as to there accuracy and should build faith in the Word of God not cause us to doubt.

 

[Bandit]

Seems to me in this day and age.. we're all too smart for our own good.

That is kind of what I am seeing too. I did not really come up in a fundalmentalist type of church, but it was more of a WORD teaching church. Ask a question find the answer in the bible.
I personally see the fundamentals as the death burial and resurrection of Jesus and the rest falls on that foundation. If we dont have that, then all 66 books go right down the tubes.
The birth was only a means of arrival and did not bring us salvation.
We cannot raise ourselves up and break the curse of death on our own.
By faith we can see it and know it, By the washing of the Word is what keeps us and makes us strong.

Some are picking and choosing what sounds good to them, then trying to fill in the blanks with other ideas and it can get kind of twisted. It is the devils job to steal our nourishment. So I like to eat everything on my plate, even when sometimes it is hard to chew.
Some enjoy the path of digging up dirt (so to speak)

If anything I would claim to be a bible_ist and a Jesus_ist.

Basstian I enjoyed your post on the gospels. Very nice.

Welcome to the boards Quid Est Veritas . Keep your faith.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Bandit

We cannot raise ourselves up and break the curse of death on our own.

Jesus says different in his teachings provided in the Gospel of Thomas.

“ He who finds the inner meaning of these words will not taste death”

1. “The Kingdom is in your centre and is about you, when you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will be aware that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty and you who are the poverty.”3 “Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over all.”2

Seeking, finding, attaining self-mastery over all, are Gnostic prescriptions for salvation. Another term associated with salvation is preservation, so in our knowing of self we gain self mastery and in doing so we preserve our very being and physical reality.

Jesus goes on to say “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.” “His disciples asked ‘Show us the Place where you are, because it is necessary for us to seek after it. He said unto them: He who has the ear let them hear: There is light at the centre of a man of Light, and he illumines the whole world. If he does not shine, there is darkness”. 24.

This suggests that this is not merely self-realisation, it is not a passive state of being like prayer or meditation, he is encouraging us to bring to the surface all negative emotions resulting from the roots of darkness within, that are harmful to the mind, body and soul.

Blessings in abundance


Sacredstar

 

[Sacredstar]

I think it is very important to remember that it was not in the best interests of Rome to have the people enlightened and empowered, hence why many of the important teachings of Jesus were excluded.

Blessings in abundance

Sacredstar

 

[Bandit]

Dear Bandit



Jesus says different in his teachings provided in the Gospel of Thomas.

“ He who finds the inner meaning of these words will not taste death”

1. “The Kingdom is in your centre and is about you, when you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will be aware that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty and you who are the poverty.”3 “Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over all.”2

Seeking, finding, attaining self-mastery over all, are Gnostic prescriptions for salvation. Another term associated with salvation is preservation, so in our knowing of self we gain self mastery and in doing so we preserve our very being and physical reality.

Jesus goes on to say “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.” “His disciples asked ‘Show us the Place where you are, because it is necessary for us to seek after it. He said unto them: He who has the ear let them hear: There is light at the centre of a man of Light, and he illumines the whole world. If he does not shine, there is darkness”. 24.

This suggests that this is not merely self-realisation, it is not a passive state of being like prayer or meditation, he is encouraging us to bring to the surface all negative emotions resulting from the roots of darkness within, that are harmful to the mind, body and soul.

Blessings in abundance


Sacredstar

Thats not completely right Star. It was his obedience to death that broke the curse of death.
If Jesus had not gone to calvary, no one would be saved.
We do not have the power by ourselves to raise us up.
It is the spirit of God that makes us alive to God, otherwise we are just a spirit in a body. There is more to it than just 'self'.

We all know what Rome did. It is done over and passed. I am also not going kick up all the old dirt. Been there and done it already.