Your belief

RJM said:
Which does not mean that the situation is not complicated by old animosities and inflamed by extremists on both sides.

These forums may not be the place to start a discussion about Israel and Palestine? I definitely won't be involved and it's going to head towards closure of the thread, imo
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Could there not be a specified thread for this topic in Politics?
 
Thinking required said:
have a tender and compassionate heart, so I am told. I just don't like stupidity, which I am also part of.
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Ok. Nice.
Nobody likes stupidity.
Do you think people in the forum are stupid?
Are you angry with people in general or here?
Are you super exasperated with people in general or in here?
Sometimes seeing so much stupidity and getting so exasperated with is has to do with our own headspace, our mindset, what we expect to see, what we pay attention to, what we react to, what we dwell on.
 
RJM said:
I believe what @muhammad_isa is trying to say is that Jesus messed up his mission to tweak the Jewish religion a little bit, and ended up nearly getting himself killed until God came to rescue him by substituting an innocent person to die on the cross and making everybody think it was Jesus -- and then got Jesus up to heaven smartly to prevent him really getting killed. In the process he ended up starting the false religion of Christianity, by mistake.

Oops ...
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Is that actually the teaching?
Or not?
Either way
Very interesting...
 
TheLightWithin said:
Could there not be a specified thread for this topic in Politics?
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I would vote against it personally. It's too inflammatory and it's never really a proper discussion because people are too entrenched. There are other websites for that sort of heated political discussion? If someone started such a thread, it wouldn't last long before having to be shut down, probably? Just my own opinion
TheLightWithin said:
Is that actually the teaching?
Or not?
Either way
Very interesting...
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It seems to be the belief of the majority of Muslims -- certainly of English Muslims -- that Jesus did not die on the cross. But as the above 'substitution theory' does not explain Jesus's wounds when he reappeared after the crucifixion, others prefer the 'swoon theory' that Jesus was taken down alive from the cross.

There are other takes on the problem too. It revolves around this passage in the Quran:

˹They were condemned˺ for breaking their covenant, rejecting Allah’s signs, killing the prophets unjustly, and for saying, “Our hearts are unreceptive!”—it is Allah Who has sealed their hearts for their disbelief, so they do not believe except for a few -- and for their denial and outrageous accusation against Mary,

and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so. Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.

Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.

(Quran 4:155-158)
quran.com

Surah An-Nisa - 1-176 - Quran.com

Read and listen to Surah An-Nisa. The Surah was revealed in Medina, ordered 4 in the Quran. The Surah title means "The Women" in English and consists ...
quran.com quran.com

There are other English translations of the passage on the link above

(edited)
 
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Faithfulservant said:
Replacing the yearly sacrifice for atonement of Yom Kippur which held a very strict set of laws for a priest to even enter into the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. To sacrifice for the atonement of sin for the people of Israel this is where the Ark of the Covenant was housed. This had to be done yearly and hasn't been done since the destruction of the temple..
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The Ark of the Covenant was lost after the destruction of the first Temple, as far as I know. The second Temple, which stood during Jesus' lifetime, never housed the Ark
 
TheLightWithin said:
Do you think people in the forum are stupid?
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If I believe that everyone is stupid, then it would include the people here since they fall into the category of everyone. I will be so misunderstood here, ya think! Does everyone do stupid things now and again. I pull out of the doctor's office the other day, did a left turn before I realized that I was going the wrong way down a one way street, stupid! Look at how much the Bible talks about foolishness, a form of stupidity. What I have been says and will change is that people don't want to see their own flaws and foolishness. Everyone on this forum has to realize that they are wrong with some belief. We all can't be right. Once I find lies involved with whatever I am reading, a light goes on and now it does not matter how much truth is contain, the book, article, or speech can't be trusted. Most people don't care if something contains lies, as long as they are comfortable with what they believe, lie or not.

I was laying in bed this morning and these verses would not leave me along. This is a statement by Jesus giving us a little insight into people. Jesus rose from the dead and people just will not believe. They just try to dismiss it as a lie.

Luke 16:28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
30 “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’
31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”


New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Lk 16:28–31.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Are you angry with people in general or here?
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I replied to this before, no, I don't even know anyone here. I am finding that I think differently about a person (not meaning that hate) the longer I am here and the more I read the posts. It just goes back to stupid. Take that as I mean it to be, not in a bad way. It applies to me also. I know that I am stupid, does this mean that I don't have knowledge, learning, common sense, certainly not. There are some very smart people here. The only people I hate are those who damage the life of another person. Like a man who rapes, that man does not deserve to live. That one act changes a person for life and not for good.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Are you super exasperated with people in general or in here?
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In general yes, But so was Jesus. Most people that I know try to be good and loving. I am not God so I try not to judge. God says" Vengeance is mine, I will repay". I did not think this way when I was younger.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Sometimes seeing so much stupidity and getting so exasperated with is has to do with our own headspace, our mindset, what we expect to see, what we pay attention to, what we react to, what we dwell on.
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Yes, it's all around us especially in the "modern" age of the WWW. When I was a kid, I was sheltered for so much, today, kids are paying the price for all the non-sense being fed into the minds of kids. And we wonder why these kids do what they do. Adults being stupid.
 
Thinking required said:
Yes, it's all around us especially in the "modern" age of the WWW. When I was a kid, I was sheltered for so much, today, kids are paying the price for all the non-sense being fed into the minds of kids. And we wonder why these kids do what they do. Adults being stupid.
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Only adults who forget their youth...

When one complains about "kids these days" or their music is "just a bunch of noise " ya done jumped the shark to dinosaur...
 
TheLightWithin said:
Is that actually the teaching?
Or not?
Either way
Very interesting...
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See also Post #199 by @talib-al-kalim on this thread:

Quran says that Jesus Christ died a natural death.

From what I understand, a hadith can be classified as explicit or implicit [sarih or hukmi] If you stick to English, it would be easier. You are saying that they are not genuine .. authentic .. right? That's a little different to saying genuine or authentic, but yes you could deem it that way...
www.interfaith.org www.interfaith.org

There has been quite a lot of discussion about the Muslim view of the crucifixion on various threads here
 
Thinking required said:
Everyone on this forum has to realize that they are wrong with some belief. We all can't be right. Once I find lies involved with whatever I am reading, a light goes on and now it does not matter how much truth is contain, the book, article, or speech can't be trusted. Most people don't care if something contains lies, as long as they are comfortable with what they believe, lie or not.
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My theory is, every religion contains false or made up ideas. That does not mean that every religion is altogether false. Nor are they all false save for one true one, in my opinion... my opinion being a conclusion that I have drawn over and over again, since I was a little kid.
 
Thinking required said:
Once I find lies involved with whatever I am reading, a light goes on and now it does not matter how much truth is contain, the book, article, or speech can't be trusted.
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How do you go about determining that there are lies?
Sometimes you can identify false information if you are knowledgeable enough about the subject.
Lying implies intentional deceit. You'd have to know the mind of that author, as if you think they are rubbing their hands and cackling and saying oh, I know the truth, but I'm going to put intentional falsehood in here to manipulate people! Mmmmbwahahahah.... or something like that.

I prefer a different approach than to say "one false tidbit and I distrust the entire thing" Rather, there is much to be learned and gained from anything. You don't have to be fully "taken in" by anything, but you can learn from almost anything.
 
TheLightWithin said:
How do you go about determining that there are lies?
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Research. Some times we can not discover truth or lies because of no resources. Then it all changes, now I have to choose one "truth" in my opinion. Like I have said here before. The Bible seems very consistent and a book written 1000 after another book, at least seems to validate what was written before. Nothing is perfect and we certainly can't prove that there is a God or not. So I take as much information that I can and try to make an intelligent decision. Another way is seeing if people are stating lies to make their belief true. That is always a red flag. Do I have to make up lies to believe what I believe. That's another red flag.
I have stated before, there is no evidence that the Jewish Scriptures have been changed. If not and the Quran states differences in historical stories, then who is wrong? Since I have come to understand there is so much evidence for the Bible and against the Quran, I go with the Bible until someone can disprove what I have come to believe.
Let's say that you have an "opinion". Is that a truth or your version of something, which could be false? If it's false it's a lie, intended or not. Then there is "deceit" which takes us to a different type of lie. How about people who assume something, are they making up lies, certainly since they are reading into something that they don't know about.
 
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