Wild speculation

[muhammad_isa]

I believe this too: a soul can die

Well, we all have a few questionable beliefs ..
..it's only "wild speculation"

 

[Thomas]

No, it does not..
I couldn't resist it

No problem! It's more a speculation with me, than an article of faith.

We do not know for sure, what lies beyond physical death.
Believers in G-d can be certain that there is a life hereafter, but details of
what will happen to each soul is only known by G-d.

I realise that it is your belief that souls will not dwell in hell forever, and I understand
why you might think that i.e. G-d is not a tyrant

Quite ...

However, I prefer to ponder on the meaning of "forever", and see it as "a long, long time"
There are verses in the Gospels, quoting Jesus saying that souls will dwell forever .. in hell or paradise.

I agree with that, especially as subsequent scholarship has shown that what was read as for ever, eternally, by the Latin fathers might not be what is implied by the Greek term aion, which as you say, more correctly implies a long, indeterminate period of time, but not eternity.

Then we all get into discussions about 'what is time in the eschaton', which is something we simply do not know.

I would – because God is not a tyrant, nor capricious, etc., take that 'time' as being the repentance, the refining and perfecting of the soul in the face of the realisation of 'what is' – rather than our idea of the same.

But, in the end, there is still the allowance, as unthinkable as it seems to me, that faced with the reality of its own existence, it's 'record' if you like, and in its judgement in the face of Divine Mercy, a soul might still say, "I choose not to accept, thank you" – in which case extinction looms as the ontological and inevitable next step.

In short, perhaps, that 'eternal damnation' must be on the table, as it were, even if no-one in their right mind would accept it, and no rational soul would be so ill-ordered to be beyond healing and contrition ...

We shall find out, in time ... Inshallah!

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Does anybody wonder over the fact that Jesus Christ offered Himself as the 'Paschal Lamb' (cf 1 Corinthians 5:7), the 'perfect sacrifice' – "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Hebrews 10:10) – "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." (Hebrews 10"14).

And that within a generation the practice of Sacrifice would cease ...

I thought it quite clever for the authors of the C. bible to out-do the prior animal sacrifices with the ultimate sacrifice . . . that of the Son of God! Brilliant move!!

 

[Thomas]

I thought it quite clever for the authors of the C. bible to out-do the prior animal sacrifices with the ultimate sacrifice . . . that of the Son of God! Brilliant move!!

About as much as I'd expect from you ... noise ...

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

About as much as I'd expect from you ... noise ...

Put yer noise canceling headphones on then . . .

 

[TheLightWithin]

What difference does it make? I don't want to be in either one.

??? I didn't understand? Either one of what or whom? I know you were responding to my remark I just couldn't follow how it followed....

I'm at a loss to recall specific scripture, but that is the impression I got from reading pretty much all of the Bible, I didn't skip much.

It's been quite awhile from when I last read the bible through. I have always had such a hard time reading the bible. Very easy to get bogged down in many parts of it. Hard to see how doctrine is affected by much of it. But I remember getting the impression that the afterlife if only alluded to in a limited way if at all, and very obliquely, and how you almost have to have extra biblical knowledge of doctrine to make any connection to doctrine.

There is a book called Hell's Illusion: Exploring the Myth of Hell by Don Keathley, and Wholly Smoke, the Myth of Endless Torment by Brother Bird. Bro Bird is on Facebook. I talk to him sometimes. Both of those books make plenty of scriptural references.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Whether the second death is death of the soul or the absence of God and anything good. I sure don't want to be in either situation and anyone else for that matter. I try to focus on Jesus Christ and why we don't have to face either situation.

I've always been taught that it was eternal but really have never dwelled on it.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Whether the second death is death of the soul or the absence of God and anything good. I sure don't want to be in either situation and anyone else for that matter. I try to focus on Jesus Christ and why we don't have to face either situation.

I've always been taught that it was eternal but really have never dwelled on it.

Neither is great. Neither is salvation.

Eternal conscious torment, when heavily emphasized, makes God seem monstrous and unreasonable, and just sounds sus. It sounds like an all too human vengeful rageout.

The death of the soul is consistent with the idea that the wages of sin = death. And symmetrical to the reality and finality of death, as we know it in our world, only cosmically and for all time.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Neither is great. Neither is salvation.

Eternal conscious torment, when heavily emphasized, makes God seem monstrous and unreasonable, and just sounds sus. It sounds like an all too human vengeful rageout.

The death of the soul is consistent with the idea that the wages of sin = death. And symmetrical to the reality and finality of death, as we know it in our world, only cosmically and for all time.

And this is why I remove what " I think" from the issue because I can't presume to know the mind of God. I understand that He gave us free will and that there are consequences. I also understand this . why would someone who lived their short earthly life rejecting God and His plan of salvation want to spend eternity worshiping Him?

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Whether the second death is death of the soul or the absence of God and anything good. I sure don't want to be in either situation and anyone else for that matter. I try to focus on Jesus Christ and why we don't have to face either situation.

I've always been taught that it was eternal but really have never dwelled on it.

I think that what you say, "the absence of God" is the critical point. If we prepare in our lives to live without God, would we be able to live in God's presence?
A thought that came to me about Jannah is:
Those who may stay there shall be in happiness with God, in an ideal world where there is no enemy, none to fight against, no room and no reason for selfishness: who, with God's help, will be ready to enjoy this? Who's about to be happy without being a very important person, living together in abundance in equity and enjoy?
Who's apt for paradise?