Inspiring poetry

[Craz]

I have found this particular poem always takes me to a comfortable place within.
Even though I don't fully understand it.
For me, 'Guru' here represents existence itself and disciple being a life.
I am curious to see how other's understand this poem, in particular the last line.



THERE is a strange tree, which stands without roots and bears fruits without blossoming;
It has no branches and no leaves, it is lotus all over.
Two birds sing there; one is the Guru, and the other the disciple:
The disciple chooses the manifold fruits of life and tastes them, and the Guru beholds him in joy.
What Kabîr says is hard to understand: "The bird is beyond seeking, yet it is most clearly visible. The Formless is in the midst of all forms. I sing the glory of forms."

 

[Cino]

Thanks! I'll let it steep a little, see what comes up...

 

[Ahanu]

I have found this particular poem always takes me to a comfortable place within.
Even though I don't fully understand it.
For me, 'Guru' here represents existence itself and disciple being a life.
I am curious to see how other's understand this poem, in particular the last line.



THERE is a strange tree, which stands without roots and bears fruits without blossoming;
It has no branches and no leaves, it is lotus all over.
Two birds sing there; one is the Guru, and the other the disciple:
The disciple chooses the manifold fruits of life and tastes them, and the Guru beholds him in joy.
What Kabîr says is hard to understand: "The bird is beyond seeking, yet it is most clearly visible. The Formless is in the midst of all forms. I sing the glory of forms."

Why do you think Guru represents existence itself and disciple represents life? What in the poem leads you to that conclusion?

 

[Craz]

Why do you think Guru represents existence itself and disciple represents life? What in the poem leads you to that conclusion?

Because I regard the whole of existence as the Guru.
I said the disciple is 'a life', meaning any person.

What's your view?

@Ahanu
ETA Actually it was your post in another thread where you quoted
"Lover and Friend are one being, and separate beings too, as the polisher melts in the mirror’s face."
-Rumi (trans. Coleman Barks) "

that reminded me of this Kabir poem.
I didn't think it was appropriate to post it in that thread.

 

[Ahanu]

What's your view?

I feel like I need more context. Is this poem in a collection of poems or part of a longer poem?

 

[Craz]

I feel like I need more context. Is this poem in a collection of poems or part of a longer poem?

It is a single poem that I got from https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/other/kabir_main.asp

 

[Ahanu]

I have found this particular poem always takes me to a comfortable place within.
Even though I don't fully understand it.
For me, 'Guru' here represents existence itself and disciple being a life.
I am curious to see how other's understand this poem, in particular the last line.



THERE is a strange tree, which stands without roots and bears fruits without blossoming;
It has no branches and no leaves, it is lotus all over.
Two birds sing there; one is the Guru, and the other the disciple:
The disciple chooses the manifold fruits of life and tastes them, and the Guru beholds him in joy.
What Kabîr says is hard to understand: "The bird is beyond seeking, yet it is most clearly visible. The Formless is in the midst of all forms. I sing the glory of forms."

Maybe the bird symbolizes the soul that is "beyond seeking, yet it is most clearly visible."

 

[Craz]

Maybe the bird symbolizes the soul that is "beyond seeking, yet it is most clearly visible."

That sounds good and
the second part "The Formless is in the midst of all forms. I sing the glory of forms." could be saying that he has realized/seen the formless in everything.
Kabir was known always to speak from his own experience, maybe this was a moment of his realization/enlightenment.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I have found this particular poem always takes me to a comfortable place within.
Even though I don't fully understand it.
For me, 'Guru' here represents existence itself and disciple being a life.
I am curious to see how other's understand this poem, in particular the last line.



THERE is a strange tree, which stands without roots and bears fruits without blossoming;
It has no branches and no leaves, it is lotus all over.
Two birds sing there; one is the Guru, and the other the disciple:
The disciple chooses the manifold fruits of life and tastes them, and the Guru beholds him in joy.
What Kabîr says is hard to understand: "The bird is beyond seeking, yet it is most clearly visible. The Formless is in the midst of all forms. I sing the glory of forms."

Like @Cino, I think I'd have to let it steep a bit, but I think value can come out of a spontaneous immediate reaction so I will give it a whirl.
Zeroing in on the last line as you mentioned, the idea comes to me of a bird being associated with freedom, with spiritual ideas, and I read somewhere once that in Russian culture, the symbol of a bird was associated with women (generally, or for spiritual women) Also the ladder makes me think of Plato's metaphysics of the ladder of forms, and that idea makes me think of the ladder of inference. Formlessness in the midst of all forms makes me think of proto-creation or the creation process.

 

[Cino]

Whenever I open this thread, what comes to my mind is the passage from the Heart Sutra, where Avalokitesvara admonishes Sariputra that, "form is no different from emptiness, and emptiness is no different from form".

I keep wanting to say something more original, but it all boils down to this, for me.

 

[Craz]

Like @Cino, I think I'd have to let it steep a bit, but I think value can come out of a spontaneous immediate reaction so I will give it a whirl.
Zeroing in on the last line as you mentioned, the idea comes to me of a bird being associated with freedom, with spiritual ideas, and I read somewhere once that in Russian culture, the symbol of a bird was associated with women (generally, or for spiritual women) Also the ladder makes me think of Plato's metaphysics of the ladder of forms, and that idea makes me think of the ladder of inference. Formlessness in the midst of all forms makes me think of proto-creation or the creation process.

I have not ever read Plato(don't tell anyone :>)), however the last sentence demonstrates that no particular culture owns knowledge and there are many roads to 'getting there'.

 

[Craz]

Whenever I open this thread, what comes to my mind is the passage from the Heart Sutra, where Avalokitesvara admonishes Sariputra that, "form is no different from emptiness, and emptiness is no different from form".

I keep wanting to say something more original, but it all boils down to this, for me.

Thanks.
Gosh, now I have to read the Heart Sutra as well as Plato.

 

[Cino]

Gosh, now I have to read the Heart Sutra as well as Plato.

It is very short, being the heart of the entire voluminous Perfection of Wisdom literature.

Here you go:

Shorter Heart Sutra

 

[Craz]

@TheLightWithin
In reference to this part of the poem

THERE is a strange tree, which stands without roots and bears fruits without blossoming;
It has no branches and no leaves, it is lotus all over.

The lotus, when mentioned in many writings usually refers to enlightenment, because the lotus floats above the (muddy) waters.
I am guessing that Kabir borrowed the concept. Maybe @Aupmanyav knows and will comment.

This morning here(UK) it's really sunny and spent the morning here watching the lotuses

 

[Aupmanyav]

Not just Kabir, but every poets in Hindi, Sanskrit and Urdu has said something about lotus, about its beauty or the fact that the water in which it grows cannot dirty it. The beauty of eyes is compared to Its petals, and the brilliance of color to youth.
Well, your quote from poetry is not wholly correct. Lotus has roots, and does blossom.

 

[Craz]

Not just Kabir, but every poets in Hindi, Sanskrit and Urdu has said something about lotus, about its beauty or the fact that the water in which it grows cannot dirty it. The beauty of eyes is compared to Its petals, and the brilliance of color to youth.
Well, your quote from poetry is not wholly correct. Lotus has roots, and does blossom.

Indeed.
I suppose Kabir was using poetic license.


ETA Kabir also said many illogical things in much of his stuff

E.G.
Brother, I've seen some
Astonishing sights:
A lion keeping watch
Over pasturing cows;
A mother delivered
After her son was;
A guru prostrated
Before his disciple;
Fish spawning
On treetops;
A cat carrying away
A dog;


Full poem at
https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/brother-i-ve-seen-some/it out.

 

[Aupmanyav]

ETA Kabir also said many illogical things in much of his stuff.

Kabir was never illogical (otherwise this poem would not have survived), though I fail to understand what Kabir was pointing at.
Perhaps that the secrets of the universe are difficult to understand.

 

[Craz]

Perhaps that the secrets of the universe are difficult to understand.

Yes, nicely put.

 

[Cino]

every poets in Hindi, Sanskrit and Urdu has said something about lotus

There's a joke among translators of classical Indian texts: If you come across a Sanskrit word you don't know, see if "lotus" makes sense in the context

(there are so many synonyms for "lotus" in Sanskrit)

 

[Aupmanyav]

There's a joke among translators of classical Indian texts: If you come across a Sanskrit word you don't know, see if "lotus" makes sense in the context

True. We were termed as 'lotus eaters'. https://www.learnsanskrit.cc/translate?search=lotus&dir=au