The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix 2

[Modesty]

How to prevent those convulsions has been offered, we needed ro work together, we needed to stop raping the earth of its resources, we needed to treat every person as our brothers and sisters, we needed ro dissarm, stop recreational alcohol and drugs, etc etc, it is all recorded by the "Pen of the Most High".

We basically know that humanity will not embrace the Lesser Peace without experiencing a massive convulsion, yet to come. Many quotes available.

So the observation you have made, saying people will not change, I see God allows us to control our destiny and at this time we are creating an environment for a perfect storm, one where the remaining humans will all have to recover from, they will be asking God for help, as most do in times of peril.

Hmm, I mean, I can see where you're coming from, in that perilous times and major upheavals do lead to increased religiosity. It's already been convincingly argued that the old 'global secularization' myth doesn't really match up with the trends we're seeing. People really are not becoming less religious, just the pattern of religiosity and where in the world it is intensified is changing. I think we will see increased religiosity. However, I do not believe that people will all turn to Baha'i. I get that's a Baha'i belief and I respect that, but I personally don't see it happening.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Hmm, I mean, I can see where you're coming from, in that perilous times and major upheavals do lead to increased religiosity. It's already been convincingly argued that the old 'global secularization' myth doesn't really match up with the trends we're seeing. People really are not becoming less religious, just the pattern of religiosity and where in the world it is intensified is changing. I think we will see increased religiosity. However, I do not believe that people will all turn to Baha'i. I get that's a Baha'i belief and I respect that, but I personally don't see it happening.

It boils down to the old saying that only time will tell. I can only imagine the first few hundred years of Christianity and Islam, before they did become widely accepted.

I imagine a Message that is destined to be global, practiced in every Nation. Iran will be the first stop on Pilgrimage for a Baha'i. The stream of pilgrims to Haifa amazing, I see it will be a rare privilege to put one's forehead on the threshold of Baha’u’llah's Shrine, a bounty I have had twice, the 2nd having way more people to wait for than the first.

The whole structure of the way we live will change, the cities as they are will not survive. Sea level rises has already ensured that prophecy will unfold.

All the best Modesty, the rate of change will be increased, even if there are periods of calm.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

I imagine a Message that is destined to be global, practiced in every Nation

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. And agree to disagree until then.

This conversation reminds me of a fascinating article I read awhile ago. I might have to make my own post about it:

Why Are There No New Major Religions?

The story of one imprisoned prophet illustrates the difficulties of getting a “baby religion” off the ground.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. And agree to disagree until then.

This conversation reminds me of a fascinating article I read awhile ago. I might have to make my own post about it:

Why Are There No New Major Religions?

The story of one imprisoned prophet illustrates the difficulties of getting a “baby religion” off the ground.

www.theatlantic.com

This is another mystery, why is it, that no matter how much evidence the Messengers can and do provide, that humanity will still choose their ways over what is offered?

I guess that is Faith 101, as it has never changed with any God given Messages to date. There has never been instant local, let alone global acceptance.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

This is another mystery, why is it, that no matter how much evidence the Messengers can and do provide, that humanity will still choose their ways over what is offered?

I guess that is Faith 101, as it has never changed with any God given Messages to date. There has never been instant local, let alone global acceptance.

Regards Tony

Irony!

 

[Modesty]

This is another mystery, why is it, that no matter how much evidence the Messengers can and do provide, that humanity will still choose their ways over what is offered?

I guess that is Faith 101, as it has never changed with any God given Messages to date. There has never been instant local, let alone global acceptance.

I’m confused, is this referring to the article or to me not accepting Baha’i?

 

[TheLightWithin]

I’m confused, is this referring to the article or to me not accepting Baha’i?

I took it as referring to the article

 

[Modesty]

I took it as referring to the article

I think you’re right. My brain is not functioning today lol.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I’m confused, is this referring to the article or to me not accepting Baha’i?

It was referring to the history of Messengers and how the given faith was never adopted instantaneously by a multitude. It is applicable to all of us and the choices we have in front of us.

The article you provided was of a Badminton Coach turned prophet.

As previously offered, Messengers are known as something extraordinary right from Birth, or even prior to birth. They are, even as children, immersed in the Spirit and are known by virtues.

Interestingly, this is how the Dalai Lama is chosen.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

This is another mystery, why is it, that no matter how much evidence the Messengers can and do provide, that humanity will still choose their ways over what is offered?

But Baha'u'llah does not provide any -- just contorted attempts by his later family and followers to manipulate the Bible to make it seem to be referring to him? Just like all the other self-proclaimed new messiahs. Baha'u'llah decided upon the name Glory of God for himself, whatever the Bab gave it to him, and that means every OT reference to the Glory of God refers to Baha'u'llah?

Christ healed the lepers and cripples and gave sight to the blind. He raised the dead and forgave sin and returned rom the grave after three days. Nobody had to go looking for him; he stood on the hilltop and they flocked around him, so many that when the time came to feed them, he multiplied loaves and fishes. Many signs and miracles -- according to the New Testament.

His return is predicted in Matthew 24: 27-28 as "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

No need to go looking when Christ returns -- not as the suffering servant because that sacrifice has been accomplished once and forever -- but as the King in all his glory, surrounded by hosts of angels. It will be as plain as lightning in the sky -- according to the NT. Nobody will have to go reading through thousands of pages of Baha'i writings about messengers and Baha'u'llah as Christ the Father in order to know.

Nobody has to believe a single word of the New Testament if they don't want to, but it absolutely does not support Baha'u'llah as the returned Christ, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But Baha'u'llah does not provide any -- just contorted attempts by his later family and followers to manipulate the Bible to make it seem to be referring to him? Just like all the other self-proclaimed new messiahs. Baha'u'llah decided upon the name Glory of God for himself, whatever the Bab gave it to him, and that means every OT reference to the Glory of God refers to Baha'u'llah?

I would suggest if you offer that, then one not has read much about the life of Baha’u’llah.

Yes all references to the 'Glory of God', is references to Baha’u’llah, who came in the Station of the Father.

There is much proof. That is really all I can offer.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

His return is predicted in Matthew 24: 27-28 as: "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

A prophecy that will not have a full literal fulfillment, it is obviously veiled in metephor.

It does offer it will come from the East to the West.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

A prophecy that will not have a full literal fulfillment, it is obviously veiled in metephor.

It does offer it will come from the East to the West.

That is completely peripheral to the obvious intended meaning which is that it will be as clear to all people as lightning and thunder in the sky. Nobody will have to go looking. It's typical of your approach and manipulation of the Bible. I'm not saying that anyone has to believe the NT accounts but you choose to regard them as important.

Have a good evening, Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It's typical of your approach and manipulation of the Bible.

None of this is my interpretation, but sure, always make it personal RJM. I only share what I have found, I rarely try Bible Interpretation, but do consider official explanations and explanations of those that have a passion for interpretation.

So RJM, one must also consider such verses as the parable of the thief in the night in Matthew 24:42-44 (it’s also at 1 Thessalonians 5:2):

"..Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him..."

That is also clear, but says the opposite of what you suggest the other passage offers.

This is worth a read.

Literal or Not? Understanding Prophecies About Christ's Return

Has the understanding of prophecies concerning the return of Christ prevented Christians from seeing the divine interventions that have occurred since Jesus’ time?

bahaiteachings.org

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

None of this is my interpretation, but sure, always make it personal RJM

Alright, so the official Baha'i interpretation?

"..Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him..."

That means to be ready for the return, not that Christ will return as a thief in the night to steal from a person. That is completely peripheral. The thief steals. Is Christ a thief? It means the house should be secure at all times. Christ used parables.

Why do you -- or the Baha'i organisation -- have to manipulate?

This is worth a read.

https://bahaiteachings.org/literal-or-not-understanding-prophecies-christ-return/

Oh please!

Anyway, I don't have time or energy to go on with this ...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Alright, so the official Baha'i interpretation?

Both Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha gave some official Interpretation on Bible verses and passages.

Abdulbaha gave detailed explanations on Danike and Revelation Chapters 11 and 12. Also on quite a few other sections of the Bible.

Most Baha'i Books are written around these Interpretations. Though there have been a few Baha'i that have attempted their own interpretations of a large selection of Biblical verses.

Regards Tony.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Alright, so the official Baha'i interpretation?
That means to be ready for the return, not that Christ will return as a thief in the night to steal from a person. That is completely peripheral. The thief steals. Is Christ a thief? It means the house should be secure at all times. Christ used parables.

Why do you -- or the Baha'i organisation -- have to manipulate?
Oh please!

Anyway, I don't have time or energy to go on with this ...

So do you have authority for your interpretation of those passages?

Why is it Baha'i manipulation, but not Christian manipulation?

Good night RJM. I love this topic, it is not yet started yet.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Oh please!

Anyway, I don't have time or energy to go on with this

This person was raised a Christian and offered this.

"...Having been raised a Christian, believing in the divine mission of Jesus, accepting his sacrifice, testifying to his transformative power, and adoring many of his followers, it is not judgment by Jesus that I am worried about. My fear is not condemnation by Jesus, but succumbing to the seductive power of Babylon, the city of ease that surrounds us and so numbs us that we fail to take action..."

Why is His view incorrect?

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

So do you have authority for your interpretation of those passages?

Why is it Baha'i manipulation, but not Christian manipulation?

Plain common sense of the obvious intended meaning of the passages in context

Abdulbaha gave detailed explanations on Danike and Revelation Chapters 11 and 12

And he was misled. He did not know that an apocalypse was like a 'roman de clef'. It was a concealed way of talking about the abuse of power. That is the meaning of an apocalypse.

The Book of Daniel was written around the time of the Maccabean revolt and concerns the Selucid King Antiochus 4 Epiphanus as the abomination in the temple.

The Book of Revelation is most probably an apocalypse about Nero as the antichrist and the great beast.

Whatever -- when anyone needs to go to Daniel or Revelations to prove their prophecy, they are getting desperate, imo

 

[Faithfulservant]

This person was raised a Christian and offered this.

"...Having been raised a Christian, believing in the divine mission of Jesus, accepting his sacrifice, testifying to his transformative power, and adoring many of his followers, it is not judgment by Jesus that I am worried about. My fear is not condemnation by Jesus, but succumbing to the seductive power of Babylon, the city of ease that surrounds us and so numbs us that we fail to take action..."

Why is His view incorrect?

Regards Tony

The view isn't incorrect for that person.. your view isn't incorrect for you . But to tell someone their view is incorrect because they don't know their own scriptures is highly incorrect. You don't understand that is what you are doing.

Once again I ask why this thread isn't in the Baha'i forum?? You are hijacking the Christian faith and scriptures and the very God we worship to validate your own. You take the Christian scriptures and twist them into a perversion that highly offensive to me. It's not what you do or what you believe it's how you do it.

@RJM Do I get a vote here? This isn't a thread for discussing it's a thread to push Baha'i on anyone that chooses to participate.