Ah right -- you continue taking every opportunity to abuse Jesus's passion as a trivial exercise to insert Baha''i tracts?
A New Creation
- Thread starter Thomas
- Start date
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Ah no ,-- you prefer to duck and dive when cornered pasting scriptures you haven't read and never will come close to beginning to comprehend, as a vehicle to proselytize ... imo
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
What I can offer here is something I have contemplated over many years.
What I have found is that when we are seeing the bad, it is because it is still an intrinsic part of our own selves, it is a difficult self reflection, but to me it is very apparent it does happen this way.
Example only RJM, meant only for consideration, not as condemnation.
The statement to consider is "taking every opportunity to abuse Jesus's passion as a trivial exercise".
So we can ask ourselves do we do that with all the other Messengers? Do we trivialise the Suffering of Moses, Abraham, Krishna, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah to name a few?
Or in recognition of all those sufferings, do we choose to embrace the given teachings and emulate them in our lives?
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
You quote from books you've never read. You paste up what your elders tell you, and you get busted every time.A little ditty, a reflection of what is sung here often.
With Thomas we can try to converse, but alas with RJM it is all perverse!
Regards Tony
It's impossible to have a proper coversation because you don't say anything, except to cut and paste and recycle mantras
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Thinking isn't easy @Tony Bristow-Stagg
Thinking is hard. Thinking takes courage and mental effort. Thinking means going to full distance. It doesn't mean getting off at the early stop you think is the best guru, and that's the rest of your life.
"Now I've got the truth, I don't need to think or worry anymore, just follow ... and peach, preach, preach"
To me that's a tragedy
Whatever ...
Thinking is hard. Thinking takes courage and mental effort. Thinking means going to full distance. It doesn't mean getting off at the early stop you think is the best guru, and that's the rest of your life.
"Now I've got the truth, I don't need to think or worry anymore, just follow ... and peach, preach, preach"
To me that's a tragedy
Whatever ...
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
There is no escape from Earth and life beyond sustenance and sex has the meaning that we give to it.
Quotes from Bible are advertising blurbs. God is an imagined entity. Perhaps the righteous people live on Proxima Centauri B. We do not know. Humans on earth are not going to change, some good, some bad.
Metaphysics is never solid, and what you say about it is hardly intelligible.
Life on earth cannot survive beyond a billion years (don't know how long humans will last). The sun is going to scorch the earth as it consumes its Hydrogen.
'Aum', IMHO, is a word that the indigenous Indians chanted while dancing around the fire to the beat of tree trunks with satisfied bellies after a successful hunt. Later it became a sacred word. These words today are known as 'Beeja Mantras' (Seed words).
Of course, all is well. We are screaming for each others blood. That is what life is without pretensions.
I believe this timespace dimension of nature in which we are aware is just one of perhaps infinite other rooms within the greater house of spirit, that contains and permeates our room of nature.
Buddhist belief is that creatures are reborn into other states and ‘worlds’ not simply reincarnated time and again back into the room of nature upon the planet earth.
I believe we are surrounded by life that is not dependent on time and space to exist, and that the earth and other planets are living entities, and host to life in many forms that we as natural carbon-based creatures are unable to recognize as living.
I believe there are great angelic multi-dimensional beings able to walk between worlds, as between rooms in a house, and that we are eventually destined ourselves to become such beings, in the infinity of life that is not time extended infinitely into the future, but which is outside of time. The speed of thought is instantaneous
As our dimension of nature is contained by walls of time and space, perhaps the greater house of Spirit, with its infinite other dimensions, is contained by walls of Love -- in the greater spiritual sense that all beings return to the One.
My Father's house has many mansions.
And beyond that -- who can even begin to contemplate?
Buddhist belief is that creatures are reborn into other states and ‘worlds’ not simply reincarnated time and again back into the room of nature upon the planet earth.
I believe we are surrounded by life that is not dependent on time and space to exist, and that the earth and other planets are living entities, and host to life in many forms that we as natural carbon-based creatures are unable to recognize as living.
I believe there are great angelic multi-dimensional beings able to walk between worlds, as between rooms in a house, and that we are eventually destined ourselves to become such beings, in the infinity of life that is not time extended infinitely into the future, but which is outside of time. The speed of thought is instantaneous
As our dimension of nature is contained by walls of time and space, perhaps the greater house of Spirit, with its infinite other dimensions, is contained by walls of Love -- in the greater spiritual sense that all beings return to the One.
My Father's house has many mansions.
And beyond that -- who can even begin to contemplate?
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The 'change' spoken of by St Paul is – to use Christian terms – a change in the relationship between physical and spiritual.
But that's not so, is it? The world is substantially the same.
Likewise the sacra doctrina is as relevant today as it was then.
Huston-Smith called the sacred texts "the winnowed wisdom of the human race" – that wisdom is still applicable. So the world is the same.
All the messengers, you tell me, are saying substantially the same thing ... Therefore the circumstance in which they find themselves is substantially the same. Nothing has changed.
Exactly, the same old receives a new message, but itself remains the same old ...
170 years? What changes?
Exactly. Not changed, just the same thing continued.
That can, and has, been said since time began ... but the world remains the same ...
I mean not in a spiritual sense, metaphorical sense, anagogical sense ... but in physical reality.
The post-resurrection appearances of Jesus point to this. The insights of St Paul and St John testify to it ...
+++
The best we can hope for now is 'enlightenment', or 'beatitude', or 'walking in the spirit' ... but physically, nothing has changed.
As the Buddhist saw has it, 'Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.'
+++
A speculation –
"I can't be everywhere at once ... "
The cry of the parent, the teacher, the carer, the farmer, the labourer ...
Supposing one can – suppose a world in which consciousness transcends the material state and is no longer bound by its rule of spatio-temporality.
In a holistic metaphysic, the body is the form of the soul. The body is the means by which the soul is manifest in the world, and our presence in the world is governed according to the laws that govern material bodies, and that determines our existence and experience.
Jesus has shown, and St Paul, St John and others intuit, there will be, in a twinkling, a change,
The body will continue to be the means by which the soul is manifest in the world, but the world is now governed according to the laws of the spirit, and those laws determine our existence and experience.
The soul now inhabits the body as its master and makes use of it at will. The relationship the soul entertains with the corporeal medium of our presence has been completely transformed. A presence 'truly' active in the world because that presence is now truly the soul in act, whereas before the soul was under the conditions governing its material presence.
All our relationships, with our own corporeality, with other bodies, with the entire world and with the conditions that define it, all these relationships have been changed.
Simply put, we are no longer subject to the conditions of this corporeal world. Our bodies become our a prolongation of our spiritual reality, entirely dependent upon this reality, whereas in the state of fallen nature, it is the person's spiritual reality which extrinsically dependent upon its bodily presence.
"I can't be everywhere at once ... "
The cry of the parent, the teacher, the carer, the farmer, the labourer ...
Supposing one can – suppose a world in which consciousness transcends the material state and is no longer bound by its rule of spatio-temporality.
In a holistic metaphysic, the body is the form of the soul. The body is the means by which the soul is manifest in the world, and our presence in the world is governed according to the laws that govern material bodies, and that determines our existence and experience.
Jesus has shown, and St Paul, St John and others intuit, there will be, in a twinkling, a change,
The body will continue to be the means by which the soul is manifest in the world, but the world is now governed according to the laws of the spirit, and those laws determine our existence and experience.
The soul now inhabits the body as its master and makes use of it at will. The relationship the soul entertains with the corporeal medium of our presence has been completely transformed. A presence 'truly' active in the world because that presence is now truly the soul in act, whereas before the soul was under the conditions governing its material presence.
All our relationships, with our own corporeality, with other bodies, with the entire world and with the conditions that define it, all these relationships have been changed.
Simply put, we are no longer subject to the conditions of this corporeal world. Our bodies become our a prolongation of our spiritual reality, entirely dependent upon this reality, whereas in the state of fallen nature, it is the person's spiritual reality which extrinsically dependent upon its bodily presence.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
That may be Mahayana and not what Buddha talked. Buddha would have asked if that helped in removal of sorrows.
As for the rest, are you talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation?
Thanks Aup.
No. I'm saying the essential Buddhist concept of rebirth is not the same as the (Hindu?) idea of reincarnation time and again back upon the planet earth.
I don't accept the many worlds explanation for fine tuning in the way it is presented, because it assumes (and is presented as an explanation for) the anthropic principle.
I don't believe existence is limited to nature space and time. I do not believe the universe limits itself to what our human senses are able to conceive and measure -- which includes our truly wonderful telescopes and microscopes and spacecraft, as essentially extensions of our material human senses and perception
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I see history is out teacher Thomas. How much did the world change in the time of Jesus, it took nearly 400 years to be established and in all that time most of the world had not heard of it. It took some time before the empires opposition to Christianity gave way to embracing Christianity. Yet it was really established when Jesus walked the earth and the first Word of God for that age was uttered.
You asked about what change has happened in the last 170 years, one of the greatest changes has been people of faith turning away from their own scriptures in preference to their own view on morals and ethics, it is a cancer all Faiths suffer from. Thus God's Covernant with humanity, that we will never be left without guidance.
There is so much to offer, patience silence has been my greatest test and remains so.
Words are both water and life, but also fire and destruction.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Thanks @Aupmanyav
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OK, but we're way off now ... I'm not comparing like with like ... that's my point.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
In what ways guidance through Manifestations from your God has changed humans? We are still the same or worse with deadlier weapons.
But you are welcome to rant on. There are more Ahmadiyyas than Bahais.