I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

[moralorel]

there is a thing known as forensic science . we do have clues as to how things happen. Jesus and the other two had to be dead before the sun set .that does not happen if hung on a cross. it will take days if hung on a cross . the thing left ,is a pole ,no cross bar to hold the outstretched arms.

That didn't answer my question.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I would have thought a suggestion which both Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses could agree to would be acceptable to both parties.

I don’t want to ignite any contentious interchanges, but I would point out that the JW movement believes it is the only faith group that that can legitimately call itself and its members Christians. They refer to the religion of others who identify as Christians as Churchianity.

maybe you should spend more time with Jehovah's Witnesses ,you would find out who the true Christians really are

Perhaps he was responding to a post that implied that Jehovah's Witnesses weren't Christians?

Just my two cents: I don't know what sociologists of religion would say, or scholars of comparative religion, but I have long been under the impression that heterodox groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Seventh Day Adventists, maybe Quakers, and others, are indeed Christian but considered to be, well, heterodox Christian sects.

I see the Mormons (who see themselves as Christian) in a slightly different light. They are so fundamentally different I see them as a distinct Abrahamic faith in their own right.

If I were a scholar I would possibly deeply investigate this and make a treatise upon it. But I'm not, so for now:
Just my opinion.

 

[TheLightWithin]

lots of ways to get it wrong ....one way to get it right

If the understanding of the cross or lack thereof were to be wrong: What then?
Does it change the veracity of the event?
Does it change the meaning of the event?

 

[walter]

Acts 16:30, 31: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will get saved.” Hebrews 5:9: “[Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” Should we believe in both scriptures or just one of them?

Google's AI Overview

Yes, Christians believe in both scriptures, as they present complementary aspects of salvation: Acts 16:30-31 highlights the necessity of faith in Jesus for salvation, while Hebrews 5:9 emphasizes that this faith must lead to obedience and a commitment to follow Jesus's commands for everlasting salvation. Believers understand that true faith in Christ inherently includes a desire to obey his teachings and will.

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I myself agree people should put faith in both scriptures as truth that leads to everlasting salvation.

Hello friends nice to be back

 

[walter]

I send peace, love and respect to everyone.

John 13:35
Berean Standard Bible
By this everyone will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”

How can we be identified as one of Jesus disciples if we go to war, our brothers and sisters are in every country,
we have a worldwide ministry with brothers and sisters everywhere in 1,105 languages, we cannot go to war against them can we and still be identified as one of Jesus disciples can we?
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God instructed Moses with specific instructions to engage in war, Jesus did not.

AI Overview

Yes, the statement is an accurate reflection of the different contexts and teachings found in the Bible. The Old Testament records God instructing Moses and the Israelites to wage war against enemy nations, particularly during the conquest of the Promised Land. In contrast, Jesus's teachings in the New Testament emphasize peace, love, and nonviolence.

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Jesus told is disciples early that day to get a couple swords, then later that day Peter cut off a person's ear, and Jesus rebuked him and said those who kill by the sword will die by the sword.

AI Overview
Yes, you've accurately summarized a key episode from the Gospels. Jesus instructed his disciples to buy swords to fulfill prophecy, but then rebuked Peter for using his sword to cut off the ear of the high priest's servant during Jesus's arrest in the garden. Jesus healed the man's ear and told Peter to put his sword away, stating, "those who live by the sword will die by the sword".

 

[iBrian]

Hello friends nice to be back

Welcome back.

But please drop the AI quotes - we want members to be able to speak for themselves, not have a mindless machine to do it for them.

 

[walter]

Each scripture is just as important as the next one isn't it, so I think it would be beneficial to put faith in all the scriptures that we both can find, in this way we draw a more complete understanding on any subject, what do you think?

Peace and Happiness be with you.

 

[walter]

please drop the AI quotes

I will no longer use the AI quotes, thank you for your good advice.

 

[walter]

Most all religions believe in a afterlife.

What is the Hope for Our Dead Loved Ones?

“If a man die, shall he live again?” asked the man Job long ago. (Job 14:14, King James Version) You, too, may have wondered about this. How would you feel if you knew that a reunion with your loved ones was possible right here on earth under the best of conditions?

—Isaiah 26:19; Psalm 37:29, Romans 6:23, John 5:28-29, Matthew 5:5

Acts 24:15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. American Standard Version

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
English Standard Version

 

[walter]

I take into account everything Jesus had to say not just a few scriptures, and I keep searching for 100% agreement of all Jesus words and the entire Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Jesus is King & Mighty God Jn.1:1-3, Lk.1:32-33, Jn 10:34-36, 1 Cor. 8:6, Jn. 17:3, 1 Peter 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Jn. 20:28,
Jn. 5:19, Jn. 14:10, Jn. 8:28

When a person's beliefs do not agree with the majority of scriptures, isn't that disagreement?

 

[Thomas]

When a person's beliefs do not agree with the majority of scriptures, isn't that disagreement?

What about when a person's belief do not agree with another's interpretation of the Scriptures?

 

[walter]

What about when a person's belief do not agree with another's interpretation of the Scriptures?

I try my very best not to interpret the scripture, I try to allow the words in each scripture to explain the meaning.

For example if there is 20 scriptures on a certain topic and a couple scriptures don't seem to agree with the majority I keep searching other Bibles translated in English to see if there is a different rendering of the scripture. My goal is to get 100% agreement, where each scripture compliments the other.

This requires a lot of effort at first, but after you do this one time it gets easier and easier to do again.

Peace be with you and your family, I extend to you all the kindnesses of the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. -Berean Standard Bible

 

[Faithfulservant]

I try my very best not to interpret the scripture, I try to allow the words in each scripture to explain the meaning.

For example if there is 20 scriptures on a certain topic and a couple scriptures don't seem to agree with the majority I keep searching other Bibles translated in English to see if there is a different rendering of the scripture. My goal is to get 100% agreement, where each scripture compliments the other.

This requires a lot of effort at first, but after you do this one time it gets easier and easier to do again.

Peace be with you and your family, I extend to you all the kindnesses of the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. -Berean Standard Bible

My belief is that the folly is trying to interpret it yourself. The reason Jesus taught in parables is that you aren't going to get it when reading the words at face value. The power and work of the Holy Spirit is who teaches us all things.

 

[walter]

My belief is that the folly is trying to interpret it yourself. The reason Jesus taught in parables is that you aren't going to get it when reading the words at face value. The power and work of the Holy Spirit is who teaches us all things.

Mark 4:34
But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples. New King James Version

Luke 8:10
He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’ Berean Standard Bible

Matthew 13:11
He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. New King James Version

Mark 4:11
And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but for those who are outside, everything comes in parables, New American Standard Bible

Because of these scripture I take into account what Jesus says in private to his disciples, when he is speaking to his Father in prayer and when he is speaking to his followers that believe in him, not when he is talking in parables to people that are taking a stand against Jesus.

It's not up to me to interpret any scripture myself, I agree with you that would be folly, wouldn't Jesus actual words be superior to anybodies interpretation?

Do you think it is just face value if you let Jesus do all the talking? When Jesus was baptized a voice came from heaven and said this is My Son listen to him, don't you think that to listen to Jesus words and praying for guidance you would be in a harmony with God's Holy Spirit?

 

[Thomas]

I try my very best not to interpret the scripture, I try to allow the words in each scripture to explain the meaning.

This is interpretation. One cannot read without interpreting. A translation is an interpretation, even before we get to read it.

For example if there is 20 scriptures on a certain topic and a couple scriptures don't seem to agree with the majority I keep searching other Bibles translated in English to see if there is a different rendering of the scripture. My goal is to get 100% agreement, where each scripture compliments the other.

OK. I could point you to my extended critique of the Greek word ainios in various threads here. Nearly all bibles translate it as 'eternal' which is, in fact, incorrect. The Greek understanding of the term was a period of fixed duration, not eternal at all.

The Pharisees taught eternal damnation, but Jesus warned his disciples not to listen to their false teachings (nor the Sadducees – Matthew 16:12). If Jesus had preached eternal damnation as they did, he would have used similar language, but he doesn't.

The word he uses to define the duration of punishment is aionios; whereas between them Philo of Alexandria and Josephus refer to Pharisaic and Essene teachings on eternal punishment using a different term: aidion, adialeipton and athanaton ('deathless' or 'immortal').

In Matthew 25:46:
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (most common translation)
"And these will go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age.” (Hart translation, plus a couple of others.)
Hart and other scholars argue that:
"aionios" does not mean 'eternal';
"kolasis" means 'docking' or 'pruning' and infers a corrective punishment – so a period of suffering with a positive outcome – a healing.

A very different interpretation.

 

[walter]

A translation is an interpretation, even before we get to read it.

Yes this is true I agree with you, but when there is 20 scriptures on one topic, do you use all 20 scriptures to form your understanding?

Do you find all 20 scriptures agree with each other and complement each other before you form a conclusion?

If a few scriptures do not complement each other and disagree, how can anyone consider that to be any-kind of truth?

 

[muhammad_isa]

My belief is that the folly is trying to interpret it yourself. The reason Jesus taught in parables is that you aren't going to get it when reading the words at face value. The power and work of the Holy Spirit is who teaches us all things.

That makes no sense .. one has to follow something!
..and so-called scholars often do not agree.

No .. the best way, imo, is to seek knowledge from a number of sources, and
depend on your own sincerity and G-d (Holy Spirit/whatever)

 

[walter]

I believe God's Holy Spirit guides us to his word the Bible, to remember scriptures and make sense of scriptures that are already in the Bible. Not something that disagrees or is in conflict with what is already in the Bible.

God's Holy Spirit would be in harmony with all the scriptures wouldn't that be true?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work. Berean Standard Bible

John 14:26
26  But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

John 17:17
17  Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
13  Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers.

2 Peter 1:21
21  For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

Romans 15:4
4  For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.

Hebrews 4:12
12  For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Luke 8:21
He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.” NIV

John 15:14
14  You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you.

 

[Faithfulservant]

That makes no sense .. one has to follow something!
..and so-called scholars often do not agree.

No .. the best way, imo, is to seek knowledge from a number of sources, and
depend on your own sincerity and G-d (Holy Spirit/whatever)

That may be how you approach biblical studies but thats not how i do it. I do not follow scholars. I do not need extra biblical sources. I just need Jesus Christ.. the Bible and the Holy Spirit. You do you though!!

 

[walter]

I do not need extra biblical sources. I just need Jesus Christ.. the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you