Ignoring Vaccines

The jab didnt stop the person from getting covid or spreading it..
But it did reduce the incidence ...

... the masks didnt stop people from getting covid or spreading it.
I am always staggered by the mask thing.

In the Far East, people wear masks as soon as they get a sniffle. It's just good manners. And it seems that evidence suggests coughs and sneezes do spread diseases – that what epidemics, pandemics, contagions, are all about.

Surgical staff wash their hands and mask up for surgical procedures ... you cannot be suggesting that it's unnecessary?

MRSA ... you think that's a rumour?

This has already been proven so why are you still repeating the same false information the govt was lying to us about?
Are you sure you're not repeating unproven information from unreliable sources?

If we do not trust Big Pharma, Govt, etc., and I'm not saying we should ... what sources should we trust?
 
But it did reduce the incidence ...


I am always staggered by the mask thing.

In the Far East, people wear masks as soon as they get a sniffle. It's just good manners. And it seems that evidence suggests coughs and sneezes do spread diseases – that what epidemics, pandemics, contagions, are all about.

Surgical staff wash their hands and mask up for surgical procedures ... you cannot be suggesting that it's unnecessary?

MRSA ... you think that's a rumour?


Are you sure you're not repeating unproven information from unreliable sources?

If we do not trust Big Pharma, Govt, etc., and I'm not saying we should ... what sources should we trust?

It didnt prevent anything. Either did the shut down for ovvious reasons. And i never said anything about not washing hands.

I know about MRSA my son contracted it in the hospital when he had pnemonia.

I would trust medical professionals and scientists that were shut down for speaking up and asking questions.

I dont trust my government. And my whole issue with any of this is that i want to be able to make an informed choice when i have ALL the information available.. that jab? There wasnt enough time to gather data on an experimental technology.

You should look up Dr. john Campbell on you tube.. ive been following him since the pandemic. Hes not overly for or against.. he just states facts from a professional POV. He made so many good points like drawing back the needle to make sure you werent injecting it into the blood stream.. it should only be in the muscle.. he said that they werent doing that.
 
Come on now .. I feel sure that the amount of people saved from vaccines highly outweighs the
number of deaths DUE to allergies to it.

Nevertheless, I still believe that people should have the option of refusing it..
It's down to our conscience, and weighing up the pros and cons. and depends on individual
circumstances.
eg. not all people are 'fit' to give blood


..and I suppose you think that you could have done better..
..or perhaps you think the govt. should have done nothing? :oops:
1. Yes, I am saying the same thing. We should have the option to refuse it, especially if our doctors advise us to do so. That is what I have been saying since the beginning of this argument.
2. You didn't read the article. We made the same mistakes we did in the past with other pandemics such as the Swine Flu. We learned a lot of lessons from previous pandemics yet made the same exact mistakes. We forced vaccines that ended up leaving permanent effects on the masses. We also didn't do proper autopsies and studies in the past to see if the vaccines were harming people. We did the exact same thing this time around. This isn't about me. But I read history and try not to repeat the same mistakes. I expected the government to be honest, to learn from the past, and to respect the medical rights of individuals. It failed in all aspects.
 
Yup! And I also said this anti allopathic medicine..oh I wanna be natural dude changed his tune some after waking up from a coma, 4 strokes and 2 days of open heart surgery.

Surprise! Humpty dumpty when put back together by incredible doctors and nurses trusted the results.

Same with covid....I live in a country where folks were too distrusting and unempathetic of their neighbors plight to mask or quarentine...

The results are there...the jab was/is effective...yes like all meds (or food) some have bad reqctions... I fault for the greater good and science....my bad.
So waking up from a coma convinced you that you should only resist when the right boot is on your throat, but not when the left boot is on your throat. That is science for sure.

This pandemic has taught me that we can't survive anything that requires just basic manners in order to survive. Both times I got Covid I got it from someone who trusted the "science". The first individual was sick and at a funeral. I told him that he could kill people and he should be home. Half of us got Covid at that funeral. He was hugging people and shaking hands. The widow died from Covid. Yet this guy claimed he just had a cold. A month after having symptoms he got checked for Covid and he was negative. So he claimed that he just had a cold, not Covid. A year later he chewed me out for not getting my family vaccinated. We already had Covid so I didn't see the issue. He called me a monster and anti-science. He killed a widow. I'm the bad guy.
The second guy spread Covid to us but said it was impossible that he had Covid. He was vaccinated and had his boosters. So he just had a bad cold. I ended up giving Covid to my family. We were all fine. That guy followed science just like you. He was hospitalized and almost died. Then he finally admitted he had Covid.

The results are there. The vaccine was not very effective. I haven't lied to you. But you trust those who have constantly lied to you. Perhaps that is how science works.
 
The jab didnt stop the person from getting covid or spreading it..
..oh, really?
..so we are wasting our time trying to find cures for diseases?

..the masks didnt stop people from getting covid or spreading it..
Tell that to the medical staff, who had to work with infected patients!
I doubt they would agree.
 
..oh, really?
..so we are wasting our time trying to find cures for diseases?


Tell that to the medical staff, who had to work with infected patients!
I doubt they would agree.
You keep resorting to extremes. If one vaccine is not effective that does NOT mean that disease prevention research should stop right there and vaccines should be thrown out and we should go back to leeches and blood letting. What we are both saying (I assume, sorry for hijacking the response) is that the government and media both lied about the vaccine effectiveness. They said that you wouldn't get Covid if you got vaccinated and that only the unvaccinated would spread Covid. It is a fact that vaccinated people will still carry Covid and definitely can still catch Covid. That is what we are both saying.

I would say that the mask mandates were barely effective. Studies have already show that masks really didn't do much to prevent Covid. I DID work in the medical field. So go ahead and tell me all about it.
 
..yet you haven't said what you would do, if you were the responsible govt. official.. 😑
I guess you didn't get my point.

I would have immediately looked at what went right and what went wrong the last time we had a pandemic. I wouldn't have just repeated the same mistakes. I would have been honest. I would not have shamed those who were skeptics. I will repeat what I have been constantly saying on here. If the media, politicians, and pharmaceutical companies had been honest, we wouldn't be in this mess and we would not be arguing right now.
 
I would have been honest. I would not have shamed those who were skeptics..
What .. people who preferred not to be vaccinated, you mean?
Every individual has their own opinion, govt. official or otherwise.

My point, is that govt. officials hold the responsibility .. and not the citizen, when
it comes to policy. Nothing is ever perfect.

Research currently indicates that the rate and type of side effects are lower-risk than infection. For example, although vaccination may trigger some side effects, the effects experienced from an infection could be worse. Neurological side effects from getting COVID‑19 are hundreds of times more likely than from vaccination.
COVID-19_vaccine - Wikipedia

Most people I know, have had several doses of covid vaccine .. I have only had one, as
I refused them initially. I have an immune disorder, although my Doctor advises me
to have all jabs .. but it's my decision at the end of the day ..
..and G-d knows best.
 
It didnt prevent anything. Either did the shut down for ovvious reasons.
It seems to me, that when we have an outbreak of a contagious disease, it would be reasonable to suggest such measures as 'mask up' and, in extreme cases, 'shut down', on the premise that a way to limit or slow down its spread is by reducing the opportunity of transmission.

Here in the UK we were late in shutting down, and I think the stats provided sufficient evidence we should have done so earlier.

Let me say that I was no supporter of the govt at the time, and what angered me most was the profiteering by members of the government who went as far as creating rules to 'fast-track' contracts, by-passing the normal oversight channels, funnelling fortunes to friends and family, and leaving companies with long-standing reputations in providing services in the relevant business sectors utterly sidelined, while billions were channelled to companies that were founded just a few hours before ...

I happen to think the measures was not to stop the disease in its tracks – although there are cases where just that was achieved – but to slow it down enough to prevent emergency services from being overwhelmed. As it was, here in the UK and elsewhere, they were, or very nearly were.

+++

I know about MRSA my son contracted it in the hospital when he had pnemonia.
Well there you go ... same premise. Hospitals are prone because patients are already susceptible, contact cannot be avoided.

My wife is booked to have open heart surgery soon. She has been told she need to isolate for 5 days before entry into hospital, and has been given antiseptic wipes to clean herself down ... all measures not there a few years ago, but now, in light of scientific advances.

I would trust medical professionals and scientists that were shut down for speaking up and asking questions.
OK. and their claims have to be evidenced and weighed. Too often such claims are accepted because a society we are 'conspiracy prone' – and often not without reason, but that does not mean every voice is valid.

I have spoken to a number of health professionals, after having surgery and pneumonia myself ... none know of any fatality as a result of vaccination, all know of fatalities because of the infection. The worst reaction according to their evidence was a mild case of shingles.

I dont trust my government.
OK

And my whole issue with any of this is that i want to be able to make an informed choice when i have ALL the information available.
Then we have to question that 'informed' data as much as the 'orthodox' ... and too often the informed is not quite so informed, or not quite so honestly presented, as we're led to suppose ... in short, I don't trust the counter-arguments, either.

That jab? There wasn't enough time to gather data on an experimental technology.
Then where do the counter- arguments get their data from, if there's not enough data?

You should look up Dr. john Campbell on you tube. ive been following him since the pandemic. Hes not overly for or against.. he just states facts from a professional POV. He made so many good points like drawing back the needle to make sure you werent injecting it into the blood stream.. it should only be in the muscle.. he said that they werent doing that.

I have, before – I discussed him at the time with @RJM

John Campbell is a nurse educator. He's not a medical doctor, nor is he a scientist, nor a statistician, after he was obliged to withdraw a video in which he made bogus claims.

This is not to take away from the fact that he is respected as a nurse educator, having produced textbooks offering "excellent (and) inexpensive notes on the causes, pathophysiological changes, and clinical features seen in disease processes".

2008, he established a YouTube channel on health science and nursing.

2020, the channel started to focus on the developing COVID-19 pandemic.

Here's a thing – his channel was logging 500,000 views a month, offering nursing information. Then he started COVID-related videos, and his channel had significant uptake, from 500,000 to 9.6 million, mostly from American viewers.

Early in the pandemic, Campbell himself spoke of a "calm and measured approach that is as informed as possible" to assist people in making informed decisions, in order to counter what he saw as other people on social media "spreading absolutely bonkers—and sometimes dangerous—information".

March 2020, he argued that the US and UK were doing too little to contain COVID-19.

August 2020, UNICEF cited his YouTube channel as an excellent example of how experts might engage with social media to combat misinformation.

September 2020, he argued for more ventilation in pubs, restaurants, and cafes in addition to the existing restrictions.

Within two years however, medical professionals begin to see a change in tack. Campbell himself had become a source of misinformation and he had adopted an anti-vaccination stance. His videos were cited by others to support false claims against the vaccines.

BBC Radio 4's "More or Less", which looks at numbers and statistics in everyday life, said that Campbell had been on "quite a journey" since the beginning of the pandemic, transitioning from "wholesome" videos on topics such as hand-washing, to what could be regarded as more fringe topics, garnering a large audience in the process. Dr David Gorski wrote that while at the beginning of the pandemic Campbell had "seemed semi-reasonable", he later became a "total COVID-19 crank".

+++

September 2021, Campbell said the UK and US were "giving the vaccines wrongly"; that myocarditis could be caused if the person injecting the vaccine does not perform aspiration (checking that the needle does not hit a blood vessel by initially drawing back the plunger).

There are no large blood vessels in the recommended vaccine sites, and the practice is proven painful in children. He was wrong.

November 2021, Campbell said ivermectin may have contributed to a sudden decline in COVID-19 cases in Japan. Meaghan Kall, lead COVID-19 epidemiologist at the British Health Security Agency, said Campbell was confusing causation and correlation and that there was no evidence of ivermectin being used in large numbers in Japan, rather that his claims appeared to be "based on anecdotal data on social media driving wildly damaging misinformation".

November 2021, Campbell quoted from a non-peer-reviewed standalone journal abstract by Steven Gundry saying that mRNA vaccines might increase the risk of heart attack, and said that this might be "incredibly significant". The American Heart Association noted "no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used”. The Reuters Fact Check team studied the article and concluded it did "not provide reliable evidence that mRNA vaccines increase risk of heart disease". Full Fact noted that the claims in the abstract relied on results from a test for which there was little evidence that it could accurately predict the risk of heart attacks.

This video was viewed over 2 million times within a few weeks and was used by anti-vaccination activists as support for the misinformation that COVID-19 vaccination causes heart attacks.

January 2022, Campbell posted a video in which he cited figures from the British Office for National Statistics (ONS) and suggested that they showed deaths from COVID-19 were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating". The ONS responded by debunking the claims.
March 2022, he misrepresented a conference abstract and the authors of the abstract refuted such misrepresentations of their paper

March 2022, posted a misleading video about the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

July 2022, gave an error-filled account of an article in the New England Journal of Medicine and falsely claimed ...

July 2022, he promoted the misleading idea of a Monkeypox parallel ...The misinformation was embraced and amplified by anti-vaxxers.

October 2022, shared a scandalous "revelation" that Pfizer hid data about the vaccine from the public. In fact Pfizer had published the data on announcing the vaccine, and 18 months prior, in May 2021, Campbell himself had posted on the supposedly 'revealed' data.

2022 he made selective use of statistics to make the misleading claim ...

February 2023, nanomedicine specialist Susan Oliver published a video debunking false information Campbell has posted about vaccine brain injury – Campbell is not a specialist in this field.
Within six hours Oliver's video was removed, apparently because it included clips from Campbell's video (videos do this and they are still online). Oliver speculated either coordinated complaints made by Campbell's followers (who don't know any better), or that YouTube favours high-traffic, highly profitable accounts.

August 2023, Campbell misrepresented a warning from the CDC ...

October 2023, BBC Radio 4's "More or Less" debunked his claim that excess deaths were higher among those who had had a COVID-19 vaccine than those who had not – the figures he used in fact showed the opposite.

2024 Campbell falsely claimed ...

+++

So what we see is someone who, possibly in the pursuit of lucrative viewing figures, or driven by the need to post stuff with such regularity he has no time to check its validity, he has become part of the very problem he warned against ...

So I would treat any information from that source as I do any information from YouTube, TikTok or other social media outlets, as driven by tyhje need to make sensational statements to keep people coming back ... and would advise everyone to look elsewhere, and deeply.
 
You keep resorting to extremes.
Actually, you are, too


If one vaccine is not effective ...
But it is effective. IOt's proven effective. What it's not, which is what people want, is a magic wand. It reduces risk ...

What we are both saying (I assume, sorry for hijacking the response) is that the government and media both lied about the vaccine effectiveness.
I don't think they did. I think the public got carried away with expectations.

They said that you wouldn't get Covid if you got vaccinated and that only the unvaccinated would spread Covid.
Maybe in your country, but not mine ... and I'm not sure they said this in the US.

What they said is 'reduced risk' ...

It is a fact that vaccinated people will still carry Covid and definitely can still catch Covid. That is what we are both saying.
and no-one is denying that. But there's also evidence that the vaccine can reduce the effects of COVID.

I would say that the mask mandates were barely effective.
Funny, that they still wear masks when dealing with patients in hospitals ... either they work or they don't.

And I will always be gobsmacked at people who make such a fuss about wearing a mask. Then, I know I am inclined towards Japan, but I, like they, put one on as soon as I sniffle. I think it's good manners. I think the 'civil rights' noise about being made to wear a mask was absolutely bonkers. Like putting your hand over your face when you cough or sneeze ...

Studies have already show that masks really didn't do much to prevent Covid. I DID work in the medical field. So go ahead and tell me all about it.
OK I will ...

National Library of Medicine
"The current research results have shown that COVID‐19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies. For exhalation isolation, both surgical and N95 masks are shown to be effective in reducing the spread of respiratory diseases, but the former is more accessible and comfortable to wear compared to the latter. For inhalation protection, air filtering respirators such as N95 masks can filtrate contaminants, bacteria and other matters from reaching nose and mouth, and are more efficient in virus penetration inhibition than surgical masks.

(From what I gather, masks are more effective in stopping the infected spreading the infection, that they are at preventing infection.)

"Three major filtration mechanisms are identified, namely, interception, inertial impaction and diffusion. While interception takes place for nearby particles, inertial impaction is mainly dominated by some large particles. Diffusion mechanism primarily applies to small particles with diameters around 0.1 μm. A mask design needs to consider all these mechanisms in order to increase the filtration capacity for all particle sizes. As a result, the air filtering respirators are designed to prevent both airborne transmission and the droplets, and highly recommended for the indoor area especially in the high‐risk environment. Based on these studies, all people, regardless of physical conditions and professions, should wear masks at all times in prevention of COVID‐19. In this regard, inhalation protection via masks is particularly important in order to reduce the transmission of viruses that are potentially carried by droplets and aerosols. The mask requirement has already been proved to be effective, and recently mandated in all states of the United States (Does Your State Have a Mask Mandate Due to Coronavirus?). Considering limited resources in some regions, the home‐made masks are shown to have comparable filtration efficiencies compared to the medical masks. A conclusion can be reached based on the current studies: correctly wearing masks of all kinds, despite their different designs, functions and effectiveness, will to a large degree reduce the overall risks of COVID‐19 infection and enhance general protection from coronavirus."
 
I thank the tens of thousands of vaccinated and masked medical workers who risked their lives by getting pokes and giving pokes that worked (Despite youtube and tik tok experts) and wearing and distributing masks that did work (despite claims of X and truth social) and am constantly amazed at the drivel that is touted as fact by TV personalities.
 
Funny, that they still wear masks when dealing with patients in hospitals ... either they work or they don't..
They do.. :)
Nevertheless, there are different grades of mask .. and like contraceptives, they
are not infallible.

Some people may choose not to wear them .. I don't like them .. breathing in & out in a mask.
..but it's not necessarily for me .. it is protect others .. and I respect that in populated areas.

I think the 'civil rights' noise about being made to wear a mask was absolutely bonkers. Like putting your hand over your face when you cough or sneeze ...
Aye..
 
Some people may choose not to wear them ...
From what I gather, it's not obligatory ... however, I do believe public premises have the right to exclude those who choose not to.

There's nothing like riding the underground (subway to those across the pond) with people coughing, sneezing and spluttering all around you. I count that worse than those who inflict tinny music from headphones on their fellow passengers ...
 
Actually, you are, too



But it is effective. IOt's proven effective. What it's not, which is what people want, is a magic wand. It reduces risk ...


I don't think they did. I think the public got carried away with expectations.


Maybe in your country, but not mine ... and I'm not sure they said this in the US.

What they said is 'reduced risk' ...


and no-one is denying that. But there's also evidence that the vaccine can reduce the effects of COVID.


Funny, that they still wear masks when dealing with patients in hospitals ... either they work or they don't.

And I will always be gobsmacked at people who make such a fuss about wearing a mask. Then, I know I am inclined towards Japan, but I, like they, put one on as soon as I sniffle. I think it's good manners. I think the 'civil rights' noise about being made to wear a mask was absolutely bonkers. Like putting your hand over your face when you cough or sneeze ...


OK I will ...

National Library of Medicine
"The current research results have shown that COVID‐19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies. For exhalation isolation, both surgical and N95 masks are shown to be effective in reducing the spread of respiratory diseases, but the former is more accessible and comfortable to wear compared to the latter. For inhalation protection, air filtering respirators such as N95 masks can filtrate contaminants, bacteria and other matters from reaching nose and mouth, and are more efficient in virus penetration inhibition than surgical masks.

(From what I gather, masks are more effective in stopping the infected spreading the infection, that they are at preventing infection.)

"Three major filtration mechanisms are identified, namely, interception, inertial impaction and diffusion. While interception takes place for nearby particles, inertial impaction is mainly dominated by some large particles. Diffusion mechanism primarily applies to small particles with diameters around 0.1 μm. A mask design needs to consider all these mechanisms in order to increase the filtration capacity for all particle sizes. As a result, the air filtering respirators are designed to prevent both airborne transmission and the droplets, and highly recommended for the indoor area especially in the high‐risk environment. Based on these studies, all people, regardless of physical conditions and professions, should wear masks at all times in prevention of COVID‐19. In this regard, inhalation protection via masks is particularly important in order to reduce the transmission of viruses that are potentially carried by droplets and aerosols. The mask requirement has already been proved to be effective, and recently mandated in all states of the United States (Does Your State Have a Mask Mandate Due to Coronavirus?). Considering limited resources in some regions, the home‐made masks are shown to have comparable filtration efficiencies compared to the medical masks. A conclusion can be reached based on the current studies: correctly wearing masks of all kinds, despite their different designs, functions and effectiveness, will to a large degree reduce the overall risks of COVID‐19 infection and enhance general protection from coronavirus."
1. My main points have been that I don't trust the government, pharmaceutical companies, and the media. So extreme! With this I have been standing up for individual medical rights. So insanely extreme!
2. The following statement is from the science article below: "Despite the rhetoric, no large randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trials have ever demonstrated reductions in SARS-CoV-2 transmission, hospitalization, or death."

Not one properly performed trial has shown any of the Covid vaccines to be effective. It's almost like you've been lied to. If only someone would warn you about this. But the comfort in lies is oh so good.


3. If that is what you think, you are sorely misinformed. When the vaccine rolled out here are the lies that were stated even though they knew better.
a. Joe Biden famously declared that if we got the vaccine we would not get sick, be hospitalized, etc.
b. The director of the CDC told us that we wouldn't get Covid if we got vaccinated.
c. Dr. Fauci stated that if you got the vaccine you would be safe and not at risk.
d. Rachel Maddow of MSNBC, a shining example of mainstream media, told us that we could get rid of Covid just by getting vaccinated. She also told us that we wouldn't spread it if we were vaccinated.
e. And another example of our media telling us that we won't get sick if we get vaccinated.

4. See above for my country.
5. See above again.
6. Each virus, bacteria, contagion, etc. is different and mask effectiveness isn't the same for each disease. We're talking about Covid, not tuberculosis. It is standard procedure to wear a mask around infectious disease. You can't just assume that a sick patient has a disease that isn't airborne. Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody here is claiming that we shouldn't wear masks. We're just saying that they were barely effective and that our governments and media knew they weren't very effective but lied anyway. In our country we were told by Fauci that there was no reason to wear a mask. We were told to donate masks to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. Some idiots bullied people for keeping their masks and using them for themselves. Then Fauci told us that we should definitely wear masks (even wear 2 just to be sure). So now these same people bullied others for not wearing masks, the masks that they didn't have because they donated all of their masks. It became so ridiculous that a Canadian health official told us to make sure we wore a mask during sex!
And I'm quite familiar with Asian custom when it comes to masks. We have a large Asian community where I live.
7. Your study is from 2020. A little out of date there. But I'm glad you have an old article that you can use to tell me what it was like to care for patients with Covid. Empathy must have a different meaning in Great Britain.
 
I thank the tens of thousands of vaccinated and masked medical workers who risked their lives by getting pokes and giving pokes that worked (Despite youtube and tik tok experts) and wearing and distributing masks that did work (despite claims of X and truth social) and am constantly amazed at the drivel that is touted as fact by TV personalities.
And I thank the people who stood up for actual science, stood up to their corrupt government, and who stood up to propaganda. Especially those who suspended their political views and relied on science and what they actually saw happening. Gaslighting and bullying are NOT science.

I cited actual scientific papers. Not Tik Tok. I don't know why you guys keep deflecting to that stuff.
 
What .. people who preferred not to be vaccinated, you mean?
Every individual has their own opinion, govt. official or otherwise.

My point, is that govt. officials hold the responsibility .. and not the citizen, when
it comes to policy. Nothing is ever perfect.

Research currently indicates that the rate and type of side effects are lower-risk than infection. For example, although vaccination may trigger some side effects, the effects experienced from an infection could be worse. Neurological side effects from getting COVID‑19 are hundreds of times more likely than from vaccination.
COVID-19_vaccine - Wikipedia

Most people I know, have had several doses of covid vaccine .. I have only had one, as
I refused them initially. I have an immune disorder, although my Doctor advises me
to have all jabs .. but it's my decision at the end of the day ..
..and G-d knows best.
I mean people who stood up for the truth. People who didn't just become mindless drones and just follow whatever they were told without any critical thinking. I worked with a lot of liberal medical staff. Some of them questioned what they were told because it didn't match up with what they were experiencing. We were being gaslit and we knew it. But if you spoke up, you were silenced and often insulted. You were accused of being "MAGA". I once asked a question about masks (not a criticism). We had data in front of us that showed they didn't really stop transmission. So I asked my superiors if masks were supposed to stop patients and workers from getting the virus in our lungs. Some medical journals had suggested that those who were experiencing pneumonia had inhaled the virus. If the virus were inhaled, it would wreak havoc on your lungs before your immune system could respond. If you contracted the virus from physical contact, your immune system kicked in before the virus made it to your lungs. I was told that I wasn't reading proper medical journals (huh?) I tried to ask more questions and was cut off. This was what we dealt with constantly. At our hospital we received a notice about younger patients with heart problems. We had an uptick in this issue. We were told to check to see if the youths had received a Covid vaccine. If so, it was assumed that this may be the cause of their heart problems. But the news and politicians told us that this was all just conspiracy theories.
Wikipedia is not a very good source. First off, it's a Wiki page. Enough said right there. Wikipedia also has openly forbid a lot of sources that go against their narrative. For a while they banned any mention of the virus originating in a lab and any mention of the harms of the vaccines. Youtube, Google, and Facebook did the same.

"but it's my decision at the end of the day ..
..and G-d knows best."

Amen!
 
I mean people who stood up for the truth..
..not everything is "black & white" as you imply..

Some of them questioned what they were told because it didn't match up with what they were experiencing. We were being gaslit and we knew it..
No, I don't believe that. Those with responsibility made informed decisions. Do they
always make the right ones? Of course not.

We had data in front of us that showed they didn't really stop transmission..
You can find what you want to find .. but we all know that they don't "stop transmission".
They do however, slow it down .. as do curfews and shutting down airports etc.

..At our hospital we received a notice about younger patients with heart problems. We had an uptick in this issue. We were told to check to see if the youths had received a Covid vaccine. If so, it was assumed that this may be the cause of their heart problems..
Assumptions are just that .. assumptions .. until they are shown to be correct.

But the news and politicians told us that this was all just conspiracy theories..
Right .. if I was in a position of responsibility, I would also try to reassure the public, unless
I had reliable evidence to the contrary.

Wikipedia is not a very good source..
It's better than your 'cherry-picked' sources .. and it has references for the points it makes.

Wikipedia also has openly forbid a lot of sources that go against their narrative. For a while they banned any mention of the virus originating in a lab and any mention of the harms of the vaccines..
I don't blame them .. there are too many whacko theories out there..
Govt. authorities, of whichever stripe, are constantly challenged for political reasons, and this
can have a serious effect on us all ..

You come across, as if covid struck again, you would advise everybody to ignore govt. advice.
That is rather extreme, and you carry the responsibility for the consequences .. just like
those in power carry the responsibility ..

We all know that there is corruption when it comes to spending public money .. but that is not
the issue here.
i.e. private versus tax

"but it's my decision at the end of the day ..
..and G-d knows best."

Amen!
Right .. you must do what you see is best for you, whilst not putting others in danger in the process.
 
1. My main points have been that I don't trust the government, pharmaceutical companies, and the media.
OK. Nor do I. I'm just not as extreme about it.

With this I have been standing up for individual medical rights.
As do I.

2. The following statement is from the science article below ...
You're arguing from sources you don't trust?

It's almost like you've been lied to. If only someone would warn you about this. But the comfort in lies is oh so good.
Nothing personal, but this is getting close to insulting my intelligence, so I'm out.
 
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