Thoughts about Trinity beliefs

Longfellow said:
I think that everything that God is in the world, is in Jesus. Is there something else besides that, that you mean when you say that Jesus is God? I don't think that the essence that makes them one is physical. Do you?
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No ... no Christians do, except the LDS, as far as I understand it ...
 
Longfellow said:
My theory is that they don't really believe in the Trinity doctrine, or even know what it actually says.
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So you're saying you don't believe in a doctrine you don't know?

Longfellow said:
For them it's just to prop up equating Jesus with God so that a few hours of Him suffering far less than multitudes of people do every day can be multiplied by infinity to equal the punishment that all people all through time deserve, or the debt that they owe, according to a concept of justice ...
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I'm sorry, old chum, but this is just nonsense.
 
Longfellow said:
Others are just using "the Trinity" as a prop for substituting God in the place of Jesus to explain how a few hours of Him suffering can equal the punishment that all people all through time deserve, or the debt that they owe, for their sins, and don't know or care at all about the distinction between the persons.
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Are they? Do you know who?
 
Longfellow said:
I want to share my thoughts about this with you as they come to mind. Some and maybe most of the creeds don't say "Jesus is God." They say that He is "consubstantial with the Father" or "of one essence with the Father." So when you see "Jesus is God" you can just substitute "is consubstantial with the Father" or "is of one essence with the Father" in the place of "is." You don't need to know what that means. Nobody knows what it means. What you need to know is what it does *not* mean. It does not mean that they are interchangeable. It does not mean that they are two different names for the same person. It does not mean that the Father transformed into the Son. That's what the full Trinity teachings say, that it does not mean any of those things. They are not the same person.

What that means to me is that it isn't wrong to say "Jesus is God," meaning "consubstantial with the Father" or "of one essence with the Father," *if* we also teach about the distinction between them, which unfortunately people often don't.
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I have been researching the Trinity since 1980, if we look at the Nicene Creed in the year 325AD or any other year, we will always find words Jesus never spoke.

I like to explain all my fundamental beliefs with strictly scriptures only. first I listen to what Jesus said, second I listen to the words of the Apostles especially if they agree with Jesus words, then I look for any other scriptures that agrees in the rest of the Bible.

I do not use the words from myself or anything that has been said at any time in history.

Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10;
Matt. 16:16-17, 28:18

Jesus never uses the words "Trinity" "of the same essence" "God the Son" "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are co-equal, co-eternal and co-existent" or the words in any creed throughout history and Jesus never explains that the Holy Spirit is also a equal God. Theologians say the Bible reveals these facts, but I listen to the words from Jesus and the Apostles that are written down in the Bible.

John 1:1 is translated in many different ways, most of the ways agree with the Trinity, others do not, Theologians say that Jesus called himself the great "I am", this scripture is also translated in many different ways too, I look for translations that agree with Jesus' own words not the ones that disagree, and not the words of the religious leaders that captured Jesus and led him to his death.
 
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Longfellow said:
What that means to me is that it isn't wrong to say "Jesus is God," meaning "consubstantial with the Father" or "of one essence with the Father," *if* we also teach about the distinction between them, which unfortunately people often don't.
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This is where I keep coming up short ... who are these people?

I know you think I'm being short with you, and perhaps I am, but you keep talking about the mistakes of others, and making pejorative generalisations.
 
Thomas said:
This is where I keep coming up short ... who are these people?

I know you think I'm being short with you, and perhaps I am, but you keep talking about the mistakes of others, and making pejorative generalisations.
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I believed you when you said that there's no hostility in it. I agree that I've been disparaging people, and I'll try to do better.
 
Thomas said:
This means you're looking for translations that agree with how you interpret what Jesus is saying...
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I see what you are saying I think, but I try my best not to interpret any scriptures, I just read the words and let the words explain the meaning.

How is anybody going to use any verse in the Bible for a beneficial reason when another person can just say oh that's just the way you interpret it. Why read the Bible In the first place?

The Bible itself uses these words:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work. Berean Standard Bible

Also: Acts 17:11, Romans 15:4, John 17:17, 1 Thessalonians 2:13

Please read all these scriptures and please explain what your interpretation is?
 
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