Thoughts about Trinity beliefs

Thomas said:
They are ...
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There might be some confusion here about who "they" are. :D Some people are promoting actual Trinitarian teachings. Others are just using "the Trinity" as a prop for substituting God in the place of Jesus to explain how a few hours of Him suffering can equal the punishment that all people all through time deserve, or the debt that they owe, for their sins, and don't know or care at all about the distinction between the persons.
 
Thomas said:
They are ...
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All the scriptures I cited explain that Our God is also Jesus God. Jesus gets all his authority, power and will, from his his father.

John 5:19
English Standard Version
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

Do people that believe in the Trinity Use these three points in their understanding?
 
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walter said:
All the scriptures I cited explain that Our God is also Jesus God. Jesus gets all his authority, power and will, from his his father.

John 5:19
English Standard Version
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

Do people that believe in the Trinity Use these three points In their understanding?
Click to expand...
Probably some do and some don't. Also it depends on what you mean by "the Trinity." It means very different things to different people. For some people, it means exactly what the Bible says. For others, it just means that they can substitute God in the place of Jesus as the one who suffered on the cross.
 
Thanks to everyone, I am still learning, I appreciate everybody's good advice and will continue to keep it in mind and continue to learn more.
 
There's a hierarchy.. the Holy Spirit points us to Jesus and Jesus points us to the Father. It doesn't imply that they aren't equal that they don't all have the same authority and power.. liken it to a family unit. Jesus came as a man.. He wasn't always a man.. He could appear as one but He was always the Logos.
 
Faithfulservant said:
There's a hierarchy.. the Holy Spirit points us to Jesus and Jesus points us to the Father. It doesn't imply that they aren't equal that they don't all have the same authority and power.. liken it to a family unit. Jesus came as a man.. He wasn't always a man.. He could appear as one but He was always the Logos.
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To me a belief is explained by the words that is in each scripture. The three points I made earlier came directly out of the scriptures that I listed.

Everybody has their own way to find truth.
 
walter said:
All the scriptures I cited explain that Our God is also Jesus God. Jesus gets all his authority, power and will, from his his father.
Click to expand...
Yes, because He is God, the Son of God.

walter said:
John 5:19
English Standard Version
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
Click to expand...

walter said:
John 5:19
Do people that believe in the Trinity Use these three points in their understanding?
Click to expand...
Yes.

"the Son can do nothing of his own accord"
– Because the Son is the fulfilment of the will of the Father. There is no distinction between them. Later he will berate his disciple: "Philip, he that sees me sees the father also" (John 14:9).

"but only what he sees the Father doing."
– Because the Son is with the Father in Heaven. He shares the same divine life. Only he sees the Father.

"For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise."
– the Son does the same as the Father. He is equal to the Father, because everything the Father has, He has given the Son.
Whatever the Father does (who is God), the Son does likewise (because He is God) – "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

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21: "For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them live, so the Son makes alive those whom he will;
22: "for the Father does not judge anyone, but has given the judgment of all to the Son,
23: "that all may honour the Son as they honour the Father. Whoever does not honour the Son does not honour
the Father who has sent him."
This verse is crucial – If Jesus is not God, as the Father is God, then this goes against the First Commandment and the Shema Israel.
 
Thomas said:
Yes, because He is God, the Son of God.




Yes.

"the Son can do nothing of his own accord"
– Because the Son is the fulfilment of the will of the Father. There is no distinction between them. Later he will berate his disciple: "Philip, he that sees me sees the father also" (John 14:9).

"but only what he sees the Father doing."
– Because the Son is with the Father in Heaven. He shares the same divine life. Only he sees the Father.

"For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise."
– the Son does the same as the Father. He is equal to the Father, because everything the Father has, He has given the Son.
Whatever the Father does (who is God), the Son does likewise (because He is God) – "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

+++

21: "For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them live, so the Son makes alive those whom he will;
22: "for the Father does not judge anyone, but has given the judgment of all to the Son,
23: "that all may honour the Son as they honour the Father. Whoever does not honour the Son does not honour
the Father who has sent him."
This verse is crucial – If Jesus is not God, as the Father is God, then this goes against the First Commandment and the Shema Israel.
Click to expand...
I respectively disagree. What is crucial may be different to each individual.
 
walter said:
To me a belief is explained by the words that is in each scripture. The three points I made earlier came directly out of the scriptures that I listed.

Everybody has their own way to find truth.
Click to expand...
That sounds suspiciously like all paths lead to God. That i cannot agree on. Scripture does not support that. There is extreme emphasis on false teachers by Jesus and the apostles.
 
Thomas said:
That is precisely what Christian Trinitarian doctrine does.
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Faithfulservant said:
Your issue with my statement is the word triune? I'm not sure why so can you explain? I do not listen to the many but I do have bible teachers that I follow and I've said this. These teachers tell me not to believe them but to search out scripture for myself. I'm a non denominational protestant. Trinity is the doctrine.. triune describes God in the doctrine.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

adjective
adjective: triune
  1. consisting of three in one (used especially with reference to the Trinity).
    "the triune Godhead"
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walter said:
Jn. 17:3, 1Pet. 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, 1Tim. 2:5, Jn. 5:30, 5:19, 6:38, 8:28, 14:10;
Matt. 16:16-17, 28:18
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Thomas, Faithfulservant, walter, If you believe that the Jesus whose story is told in the gospels is our Master and our Lord, like He says He is, I'm hoping for you to post in this thread: Master and Lord
 
Thomas said:
Yes, because He is God, the Son of God.




Yes.

"the Son can do nothing of his own accord"
– Because the Son is the fulfilment of the will of the Father. There is no distinction between them. Later he will berate his disciple: "Philip, he that sees me sees the father also" (John 14:9).

"but only what he sees the Father doing."
– Because the Son is with the Father in Heaven. He shares the same divine life. Only he sees the Father.

"For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise."
– the Son does the same as the Father. He is equal to the Father, because everything the Father has, He has given the Son.
Whatever the Father does (who is God), the Son does likewise (because He is God) – "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

+++

21: "For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them live, so the Son makes alive those whom he will;
22: "for the Father does not judge anyone, but has given the judgment of all to the Son,
23: "that all may honour the Son as they honour the Father. Whoever does not honour the Son does not honour
the Father who has sent him."
This verse is crucial – If Jesus is not God, as the Father is God, then this goes against the First Commandment and the Shema Israel.
Click to expand...
I think that everything that God is in the world, is in Jesus. Is there something else besides that, that you mean when you say that Jesus is God? I don't think that the essence that makes them one is physical. Do you?
 
walter said:
I think it's difficult to explain things for both of us, but I try my best and I'm sure you do the same. ❤️
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I'll go ahead and tell you some of my thoughts about people saying that Jesus is God. I'll be looking again at the verses they use for that, but the two that come to my mind are in John 1 and in John 20:28-29.

I'm thinking that maybe the reason you think that it's contrary to what the Bible says to say "Jesus is God," is because you're thinking of the word "is" as if it means the same thing that it does in everyday conversations: interchangeable, two different names for the same thing, but that isn't what the word "is" means in Trinity teachings. I'll give you an example of how the word "is" can have different meanings. I'm not saying that my example is what "is" means in Trinity teachings, it's just an example of how "is" can have different meanings. For example a person might point to a photo of the Statue of Liberty and say "that's the Statue of Liberty," but they don't mean that the Statue of Liberty has been transformed into a photo. Again, that is not the same as what "is" means in Trinity teachings, it's just an example of how the word "is" can have different meanings, and saying "A is B" can be true for one meaning of "is" and false for another.
 
walter said:
I think it's difficult to explain things for both of us, but I try my best and I'm sure you do the same. ❤️
Click to expand...
I want to share my thoughts about this with you as they come to mind. Some and maybe most of the creeds don't say "Jesus is God." They say that He is "consubstantial with the Father" or "of one essence with the Father." So when you see "Jesus is God" you can just substitute "is consubstantial with the Father" or "is of one essence with the Father" in the place of "is." You don't need to know what that means. Nobody knows what it means. What you need to know is what it does *not* mean. It does not mean that they are interchangeable. It does not mean that they are two different names for the same person. It does not mean that the Father transformed into the Son. That's what the full Trinity teachings say, that it does not mean any of those things. They are not the same person.

What that means to me is that it isn't wrong to say "Jesus is God," meaning "consubstantial with the Father" or "of one essence with the Father," *if* we also teach about the distinction between them, which unfortunately people often don't.
 
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