Rescuing the Bible

Dear Knight of the Rose

Thank you for your review I agree with a majority of what you have said.

I think I do agree with him on different cultures which is why GOD as delivered different teachings down the ages to different cultures, maybe we can discuss this more in comparative religion forum as I found some insights from Muslims on their religion enlightening in this respect.

I also feel when Jesus returns he will have many new things to share but will Christians except it when he comes or will they like the Jews did before and call him a false prophet? I sincerely hope not.

being love

Kim xxx
 
I think I do agree with him on different cultures which is why GOD as delivered different teachings down the ages to different cultures
Well, maybe God went to different cultures in different forms before to give them a slice of the pie, but my view is that Christianity contains the whole truth - and that culture only affected the imagery and poetry of the Bible, not the fundamental theological truths.

Just my two cents, anyways.:p
 
I think we all agree that there are many who claim Christianity but directly oppose it. Charles Manson..David Koresh...Jim Jones...televangelists comes to mind.

Ephesians 4:3-7 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.

Titus 3:10-11 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Romans 16:17-18 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple

1 Cor 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment

Jude 1:3-25 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.

ANYONE who teaches contrary to the bible, to Christs teachings.. to his Apostles who He charged with delivering the message is DIVISIVE and to be rejected. According to these scriptures. Christianity doesnt change when some "enlightened being" comes up with some heresy.. Anyone can claim to be a Christian.. But if you cannot see the truth you cannot see it because its not in you.. darkness cannot comprehend the light. Christianity after all is a title.. but the Book of Life and the Seal of God will reveal all.
 
KnightoftheRose said:
You don't think very highly of Bishop Spong, do you Faithful? :p
Not sure about her but I know where he is on my list of people to look to for spiritual guidance and it is definately at the bottom of the list.
 
KnightoftheRose said:
You don't think very highly of Bishop Spong, do you Faithful? :p
hehe I reject his teaching..the man however needs to be lifted up in prayer. Father forgive him for he knows not what he does.
 
Not sure about her but I know where he is on my list of people to look to for spiritual guidance and it is definately at the bottom of the list.
:D

Yeah, well he's a twenty-first century person, and apparently you aren't, so he doesn't care what you have to say *snaps fingers*...

(In reference to the previous quote: )

This speculation has gotten the Bishop into trouble with his own church. Recently, Episcopalian bishops from Africa and Asia rejected Spong's liberal views on human sexuality at a conference in England. His response was to charge that "They've moved out of animism into a very superstitious kind of Christianity. They've yet to face the intellectual revolution of Copernicus and Einstein that we've had to face in the developing world."{9} When the bishops voiced their objections, Spong responded by declaring "I'm not going to cease being a twentieth-century person for fear of offending somebody in the Third World. . . ."
If you haven't noticed already, his comments toward his Episcopalian brothers in Africa really disturbed me...
 
Romans 16:17-18 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple
Amen Faithful. this is why they want Paul out of the bible so they can feed us more candy bars and ice cream. Now I know why the preachers spent the past 40 years coming down on the new religions because they are false and they wanted us to have the bible for our day.


So Basstian, how de we rescue the bible.:eek: LOL
we go around picking up all the candy bar wrappers and melted candy AND POPSICLE sticks they litter the bible with. Was not Hansel and Gretel trapped by the witch with candy? and the witch got pushed into the stove because she wanted to eat the children.

How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! (Psalm 119:103)

1 Pet.2 2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

 
"this is why they want Paul out of the bible so they can feed us more candy bars and ice cream"

Well I think it is brilliant that Paul is in the bible because it proves without doubt the mystical experience with Christ. If Jesus can appear before a Roman he will indeed appear before anyone if he chooses.

So here celebrating that Paul is IN!

Love beyond measure

Kim xx
 
How to rescue the Bible, well Basstian here are a couple of ways. I want to start by saying I have attended many many Bible studies and my suggestions come as a result of those experiences.

1. Let the Bible speak to your heart and spirit directly

2. Have an open discussion about the various interpretations found within. I did say an open discussion.

3. Allow a parable to be a parable, Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. If he wanted one and only one interpretation he would have come out and said it. The Bible speaks to people at all different levels of spirituality.

4. Never. I repeat Never let someone tell you that you have to interpret the Bible in one way only. That is a sin ( in my opinion)

Don't read the Bible literally every step of the way. It isn't all supposed to be taken literally. ie; Acts 12: 23. I was at a Bible study where noone would consider that these worms didn't come up from the ground and eat Herod. It was proven that Herod had some type of ancient Gonohrrea and literally had his genital eaten away by maggots. So you can see where they got it from. When I told people of this they said,"no, it says here that worms came out of the ground and ate him, that's God's word". They wouldn't budge on it.

Also, here is a question for you. If you gave a Bible to someone with no knowledge of scripture and allowed them to read the Bible, (let's stick to the new testament) what would their interpretation be and what would they think about it.? Would they walk away with doctrine and dogma? I doubt it.
 
didymus said:
How to rescue the Bible, well Basstian here are a couple of ways. I want to start by saying I have attended many many Bible studies and my suggestions come as a result of those experiences.

1. Let the Bible speak to your heart and spirit directly

2. Have an open discussion about the various interpretations found within. I did say an open discussion.

3. Allow a parable to be a parable, Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. If he wanted one and only one interpretation he would have come out and said it. The Bible speaks to people at all different levels of spirituality.

4. Never. I repeat Never let someone tell you that you have to interpret the Bible in one way only. That is a sin ( in my opinion)

Don't read the Bible literally every step of the way. It isn't all supposed to be taken literally. ie; Acts 12: 23. I was at a Bible study where noone would consider that these worms didn't come up from the ground and eat Herod. It was proven that Herod had some type of ancient Gonohrrea and literally had his genital eaten away by maggots. So you can see where they got it from. When I told people of this they said,"no, it says here that worms came out of the ground and ate him, that's God's word". They wouldn't budge on it.

Also, here is a question for you. If you gave a Bible to someone with no knowledge of scripture and allowed them to read the Bible, (let's stick to the new testament) what would their interpretation be and what would they think about it.? Would they walk away with doctrine and dogma? I doubt it.

Dear didymus,

I agree with your suggestions 1 through 4 about not reading the Bible literally. A wholly and solely literal reading really kills the Bible for me, but I would not want to interfere with how others read it.

But here's another fly for the ointment. How can one really use or understand the Bible apart from the Body of Christ, a community of Christians? The earliest form of Christian worship was a community event, a shared meal. For sure if one read the Bible for the first time in complete isolation they would have a very different understanding of it, and I would say a very imcomplete understanding. We should for certain read, study, pray the Bible on our own, but to fully live it we need community. As you say, the Bible came from men, inspired by God, but these men were themselves a community, the early Church. Tradition is not evil.

While isolated, individualistic believers seems to be a trend today, I wonder if this has ever been a pattern in the past.

peace,
lunamoth
 
Don't read the Bible literally every step of the way. It isn't all supposed to be taken literally. ie; Acts 12: 23. I was at a Bible study where noone would consider that these worms didn't come up from the ground and eat Herod. It was proven that Herod had some type of ancient Gonohrrea and literally had his genital eaten away by maggots. So you can see where they got it from. When I told people of this they said,"no, it says here that worms came out of the ground and ate him, that's God's word". They wouldn't budge on it.
yes I do agree with things like this. it is not all literal in everything but we have others who go the other extreme who want to make it all a fairty tale, so when we can walk the middle of the line in sincerity of heart, that is when I feel God speaks to us through the BIble.
I certainly do not fall in line with the magority of organized religion, but that is just me.

I have to agree with Lunamoth also. At the same time how can we honestly expect the early church to understand the things we do today? The whole public did not have bibles while it was being translated... it is impossible for them to have understood it all. Also, when the translations came out in English, that is when the real reform started to take place.
The Apostles did not have this NT (they were the NT) we have today and I dont think they had complete access to the OT scrolls either. As we all know, we did not even get in English until 500 years ago. WE ARE THE New Testament of Jesus.
I want to end with this, There is no better time than now, than to read and try to understand what God wants us to know than today and I believe the whole entire effort was in His plan for His people today to keep us faithful to the end. We are still in the same age of grace that the early 120 experienced on the day of Pentecost when God filled the upper room and placed His spirit in man and they were endewed with power. That has not changed if we accept it and seek it.
It is truly a masterpiece that has stood faithful through all generations. Only one could do this for so much time to lapse, and that one is God Himself:)
Praise the Lord.
 
There is a big difference between iterpretation and the rescue that this spong guy is talking about.

Rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16: But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

There is a right way and a wrong way

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

A bible study that helps us rightly divide the Word is always good.
A study that pulls us into subjects outside the law and the testimony will lead us to confusion or worse.

This guy does not want to rescue the Bible but rather re-write it leaving out ideas that are not Politically correct. Rather than call for repentance and righteous living.

I fall way short of where I know in my heart God would have me be
the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. It would be way easier for me to allow things the bible points out as sin and thus not ever feel any conviction.
If I did this than truely I would have no use for Jesus in my faith. I would simply call what I do righteous and would have no need for repentance or forgiveness.
The law was written in stone the new covenant wrote that same law on our hearts it is eternal. I cannot change or alter what God has spoken nor will He.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

and here
psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Matt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I see all the time people using the Bible and Hiding there own selfish motives behind the name of Jesus. It is sad really to see good people depart from the truth in that way. But sadder still to watch as they lead weaker christians or (Babe's in Christ) off course.

My Bible still holds many truths I have yet to discover. It also holds truths that I need help from others to see. Not every doctrine I have ever felt was absolute truth do I now see in the same light. As I grow and learn I see things in different ways. But there are some very simple basic beliefs that will never change.
Fundamentals you might call them.




 
Dear Lunamoth

lunamoth said:
The earliest form of Christian worship was a community event, a shared meal. We should for certain read, study, pray the Bible on our own, but to fully live it we need community. While isolated, individualistic believers seems to be a trend today, I wonder if this has ever been a pattern in the past. lunamoth

Yes this is a very important point about community and very important to people in ancient times, it is certainly something in modern times as long been forgot, the importance of community and sharing hence why people lived in communities like the essenes. This is an important part of Christ's teachings.

Epiphanes summed it up well.

On Righteousness

Where does Justice lie?

In a community of equalties.

A common sky stretches above our heads and covers the entire earth with its immensity, the smae night reveals its stars to all without discrimination, the same sun, father of night and begetter of day, shines in the sky for all men equally. It is common to all, rich men and beggars, kings and subjects, wise men and fools, free men and slaves.

GOD made it it pour out its light for all the beings on this earth in order that it would be of common benefit to all: who would dare to appropriate the light so the sun to himself alone?.....

And everything exists, everything lives, is subject to this law of justice and equality....As for the laws of this world, it is they and they alone which have taught us to act against the law. Individual laws fragment and destroy communion with divine law.

The prophet said: "I had not known sin, but by the law", and how we interpret this meaning, if it be not the words of "mine" and "thine" have entered into this world throught the laws, and that this made an end to all community?

Nevertheless, that which GOD created, he created for all to hold in common possession: vines, grains, and all the fruits of the earth. Has the vine ever been to chase away a thief? or thievish passerby? But when man forgot that community means equality, and deformed it by its laws, on that day, the theif was born.

"While isolated, individualistic believers seems to be a trend today, I wonder if this has ever been a pattern in the past."

I would say yes, GOD greatest wish is to engage and be one with his people in sacred holy communion, the union of lover and the beloved. So yes this is GOD's will and all is going to divine plan.

A personal relationship with GOD that nothing can divide.

It is this experience of the sacred union with the divine that one can then share with the community in joy, love, happiness and peace.


Love beyond measure

Kimxxx
 
What a pity I have only just found this thread. Thank you Sacredstar for bringing this passage to my attention. It is music to my ears, and very beautiful music. It is what I have been trying to formulate in my head for a long time. It is sunshine on a cloudy day.

Many thanks, VC
 
Dear VC

And this a great link on the history of community.

http://www.jesus.org.uk/nccc/history_index.shtml

So it is we WILL create ecological, sustainable, GOD loving eco-village communites for our children and their children, so that our children do not witness war and devastation again.

When we love the earth, the earth loves us right back and when we love GOD's natural creations GOD loves us evenmore.

Here's too creating the Kingdom of Love and paradise on earth once more.

May peace be with the world

Kim xx
 
Sacredstar said:
I was doing a search on Jesus and community and came across this sermon. The quote from Keir Hardie is so true.

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/2829.htm

Thank you for the link, SS. I also found it refreshing. :)

Reminds me too that Spong is far from the first person to perform radical midrash on the Bible. Thomas Jefferson and Elizabeth Cady Stanton jump to my mind.

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

http://www.undelete.org/library/library0041.html

In my opinion Spong throws the baby out with the bathwater. However, I think I undertand his message and one often needs to swing very side of the mark when pushing for radical change.

lunamoth
 
Dear Lunamoth

Yes Spong is blessed in his relationship and understanding of GOD and so it is that this should encourage others to further develop and deepen their direct relationship with GOD too.

Then there is no division only acceptance of the oneness with GOD and then with each other in GOD's name.

One planet, one people, one heart, the unity of Christ Consciousness.

Love beyond measure

Kim xx
 
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