Why don't Christians worship as Jews do?

[Quahom1]

Remember the song "A little Less Talk and alot more Action" ? We here at CR are looking for more dialogue than pasting of other works (including biblical). Granted referencing scripture is fine, however, personal thought on the issue is devine, and the more personal thought, the better!!!


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Q

 

[InChristAlways]

quote Truth Seeker: For the Christian sabbath keeper we have a "The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath." It allows us to change the statutes using righteous judgement according to needs and the situation. While this I assume would not be the case in the Jewish faith. There is a freedom we have in Christ where we may indeed never get the sabbath right it will be the effort that counts and forgiveness for our sins that pardons our mistakes.

I will humble myself to say that Jews lead by example. Jesus was not Christian, he was a Jew. That is why these questions are so important to me. I can't imagine that I can go back into the womb and come out a Jew, so I must stand as I am and recognize that God is not only the God of the Jews, but He is the God of living creation whether we recognize it or not. He laid out a set of rules of how humankind should live and gave it to Moses. The information was written down and now it is part of the best selling book in the world.

To ICA: Remember the song "A little Less Talk and alot more Action" ? We here at CR are looking for more dialogue than pasting of other works (including biblical). Granted referencing scripture is fine, however, personal thought on the issue is devine, and the more personal thought, the better!!!
v/r
Q

Hi Q.Simply put, my humble thoughts are that OC judaism does not believe Christ brought the New Covenant of Life and Truth and that is why we worship differently than they do.

Jeremiah 31:33 "But this [is] the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Matt 26:27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 "For this is My blood of the new Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

My thoughts are that OC judaism today use the Talmud and jewish sages to interpret how they are to worship and give glory to God, [Islam uses the Koran],while Christians use the NT, including Paul on how to give glory to God through the Words of Jesus the Christ.

We are to continuously search the scriptures for the Truth and I suppose that is why I use scripture and why my Faith in Jesus and His words are so strong.
Steve

John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal/age abiding life; and these are they which testify of Me.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in Truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the Truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.

 

[Quahom1]

Hi Q.Simply put, my humble thoughts are that OC judaism does not believe Christ brought the New Covenant of Life and Truth and that is why we worship differently than they do.

Jeremiah 31:33 "But this [is] the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Matt 26:27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 "For this is My blood of the new Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

My thoughts are that OC judaism today use the Talmud and jewish sages to interpret how they are to worship and give glory to God, [Islam uses the Koran],while Christians use the NT, including Paul on how to give glory to God through the Words of Jesus the Christ.

We are to continuously search the scriptures for the Truth and I suppose that is why I use scripture and why my Faith in Jesus and His words are so strong.
Steve

Quite true. That is why they are still waiting for the Messiah.

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Q

 

[chokmah]

Why is it that Christians don't worship as Jews do?

I think that in Jesus' message he was trying to bring God's chosen back unto him. He said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. So why do Christians feel like we don't have to worship on the Sabbath day? And why do we use the Old Testament when we need to make reference to the 'words in red' but we feel like we don't really have to follow anything but the ten commandments, when Jesus himself was a Jew?

Is this thread only for Christians to answer or are you looking for other groups' insights?

 

[InChristAlways]

Is this thread only for Christians to answer or are you looking for other groups' insights?

I see no problem with it.

 

[chokmah]

I think that in Jesus' message he was trying to bring God's chosen back unto him. He said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. So why do Christians feel like we don't have to worship on the Sabbath day?

Quite simply, Christians are not called to observe (in the same manner as Jews) the Sabbath. That is a memorial between G-d and the Jews only. Now, it's no problem to revere it or have a solemn assembly; however, the intricacies with with Jewish tradition has established - that is not permitted (except in the potential of conversion).

And why do we use the Old Testament when we need to make reference to the 'words in red' but we feel like we don't really have to follow anything but the ten commandments, when Jesus himself was a Jew?

The thing of it - unless you're born a Jew or converted - it's best to view everything from Exodus on in the Tanakh as Jewish history. There are things you can glean, but it's not a book that is for everyone.

 

[chokmah]

Happiness, is crushed Buckeye Nuts...

M Go BLUE!

v/r

Q

November's been rather disappointing for you the last few years, huh? I wish I could empathize, but I enjoy seeing my boys in Scarlet & Gray put the "hurt-on".

Go Bucks!

 

[chokmah]

I respectfully disagree I completely understand why you would feel this about the sabbath. But the Law I feel is obligatory for anyone believing in God.
I personally feel a Christian should hold the Torah in one hand and the Bible in the other. That is a powerful statement that differs from beliefs most of my faith are taught from a child.

So, along with your "observance" of the Sabbath, do you also observe the mitzvoh pertaining to non-Nazirite, non-Kohenim, males within the Torah?

 

[chokmah]

Remember the song "A little Less Talk and alot more Action" ? We here at CR are looking for more dialogue than pasting of other works (including biblical). Granted referencing scripture is fine, however, personal thought on the issue is devine, and the more personal thought, the better!!!


v/r

Q

It's very refreshing to see a statement, like this, made. I applaud you for bringing it forth, and I applaud CR for having that type of desire.

There is nothing more irksome to me, in a debate or discussion, than for someone to just spam a verse or passage. It's the interpretation and understanding that starts to yield growth.

 

[Quahom1]

Is this thread only for Christians to answer or are you looking for other groups' insights?

Welcome to CR!

This thread is located in the Abrhamic faiths, however not specifically under the Christianity forum. This forum and thread are open to all, however please read the CR Code of Conduct in order to familiarize yourself with how CR admin and members' conduct themselves here. Our intent is mutual respect, dialogue and reflection.

It can be found Here

Once again, Welcome to CR, and I hope you enjoy your stay here!


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Quahom1
Mod Christian Forum

 

[truthseeker]

The thing of it - unless you're born a Jew or converted - it's best to view everything from Exodus on in the Tanakh as Jewish history. There are things you can glean, but it's not a book that is for everyone.

Welcome, Chokmah.

When I started this thread, it was (still is) disturbing to me how Christians, perhaps subconcsciously, have no real regard for the Jewish faith and yet study it so closely. There is a hypocrisy there. It's like wanting a man's wife, so you convince yourself that he isn't treating her good enough - then you destroy his integrity so you can feel better about persuing her.

 

[chokmah]

Welcome, Chokmah.

When I started this thread, it was (still is) disturbing to me how Christians, perhaps subconcsciously, have no real regard for the Jewish faith and yet study it so closely. There is a hypocrisy there. It's like wanting a man's wife, so you convince yourself that he isn't treating her good enough - then you destroy his integrity so you can feel better about persuing her.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and I'd never really seen it like that before.

The closest thing that I can see being a blatant example of what you state is Replacement Theology. There are those who believe that the Church replaces the Jews as "Israel". The real felonious consideration of that belief system is that the people want all the blessings that are to come to Israel, but never own up to the punishments. The thinking behind that is that the Jews have been punished, and now some new body gets all the blessings. Quite a trade, huh?

Anyways...

But I note, looking at your avatar, are you not a Christian yourself?

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by truthseeker
Why is it that Christians don't worship as Jews do?

I think that in Jesus' message he was trying to bring God's chosen back unto him. He said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. So why do Christians feel like we don't have to worship on the Sabbath day? And why do we use the Old Testament when we need to make reference to the 'words in red' but we feel like we don't really have to follow anything but the ten commandments, when Jesus himself was a Jew?

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and I'd never really seen it like that before.

The closest thing that I can see being a blatant example of what you state is Replacement Theology. There are those who believe that the Church replaces the Jews as "Israel". The real felonious consideration of that belief system is that the people want all the blessings that are to come to Israel, but never own up to the punishments. The thinking behind that is that the Jews have been punished, and now some new body gets all the blessings. Quite a trade, huh?

How can there be "replacement theology" when the Nation of Israel is still "seperated" from the Nation of Judah[jews]?
Here is how one site put it about the "lost tribes" of Israel and to tell the truth, it even confuses me sometimes, but the book of Revelation is helping me "sort it out" a bit.
Steve

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/2houses.htm

[size=+1][size=+1].........Who were (and are) the children of Israel? Here are two passages about the exodus from Egypt: one from a Christian source, and one from a Jewish source. See if you can identify the problem with the following comments........................[/size][/size]

[size=+1][size=+1].....................There is a time coming when the lost ten tribes will recognize who they are, and they will seek to be reconciled with their brothers from the House of Judah: [/size][/size]

[size=+1][size=+1]ZECHARIAH 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew [Jesus?], saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." ' " (NASU) [/size][/size]​

[size=+1][size=+1]Currently, most Jews (the House of Judah) don't accept Yeshua as the Messiah. Conversely, most Christians (the House of Israel) don't accept the necessity of keeping Torah (the Law). The Israel of God (Gal. 6:16), made up of those from both houses who are standing in the gap, accept both Yeshua and the Torah. But as numerous prophecies show, God will reunite Judah and Ephraim under the Messiah in the land of Israel. Very soon, Jews and Christians will recognize the respective flaws in their belief systems. Both houses of Israel will repent and be joined together, as Ezekiel prophesied. May that glorious day come soon. Baruch HaShem! [/size][/size]

 

[chokmah]

How can there be "replacement theology" when the Nation of Israel is still "seperated" from the Nation of Judah[jews]?

It is true. Not all Jews have made aliyah to Israel.

Here is how one site put it about the "lost tribes" of Israel and to tell the truth, it even confuses me sometimes, but the book of Revelation is helping me "sort it out" a bit.
Steve

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/2houses.htm

Personally, I don't care too much for the "two-house" theology consideration. It, much like Messy-anic Christianity, has its own un-Judaic interpretation of the Tanakh.

 

[InChristAlways]

[size=+1][size=+1]

[/size][/size]Originally Posted by ICA Here is how one site put it about the "lost tribes" of Israel and to tell the truth, it even confuses me sometimes, but the book of Revelation is helping me "sort it out" a bit.
Steve

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/2houses.htm
[size=+1][size=+1]
Currently, most Jews (the House of Judah) don't accept Yeshua as the Messiah. Conversely, most Christians (the House of Israel) don't accept the necessity of keeping Torah (the Law). The Israel of God (Gal. 6:16), made up of those from both houses who are standing in the gap, accept both Yeshua and the Torah. But as numerous prophecies show, God will reunite Judah and Ephraim

[/size][/size]

It is true. Not all Jews have made aliyah to Israel.

Personally, I don't care too much for the "two-house" theology consideration. It, much like Messy-anic Christianity, has its own un-Judaic interpretation of the Tanakh.

As much as the "mess-ianic" religion "confounds" me, the 2 nation theology is actually a very important prophecy, as far as the book of revelation/Daniel is concerned.
The reason I say that is because of the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned and that would have to be those 2 nations as they were still "seperate" at the time this prophecy was "Visioned", and my view of it and Daniel is a "tad" different than mainstream view.

Btw you used to be a christian and how did you view this book? Thanks.

Reve 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:

 

[chokmah]

[size=+1][size=+1] [/size][/size]
As much as the "mess-ianic" religion "confounds" me, the 2 nation theology is actually a very important prophecy, as far as the book of revelation/Daniel is concerned.
The reason I say that is because of the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned and that would have to be those 2 nations as they were still "seperate" at the time this prophecy was "Visioned", and my view of it and Daniel is a "tad" different than mainstream view.

I don't see a "two-house" theology being taught from Jewish tradition in the book of Daniel. But I could be mistaken.

Btw you used to be a christian and how did you view that book? Thanks.

Daniel: as a book of prophesy.
Revelation: as a book of prophesy.

Ashamed to say that I was essentially a swallower of the "rapture pre-trib" pill.

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways
[size=+1][size=+1] [/size][/size]
As much as the "mess-ianic" religion "confounds" me, the 2 nation theology is actually a very important prophecy, as far as the book of revelation/Daniel is concerned.
The reason I say that is because of the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned and that would have to be those 2 nations as they were still "seperate" at the time this prophecy was "Visioned", and my view of it and Daniel is a "tad" different than mainstream view.

I don't see a "two-house" theology being taught from Jewish tradition in the book of Daniel. But I could be mistaken.

Daniel: as a book of prophesy.
Revelation: as a book of prophesy.

Ashamed to say that I was essentially a swallower of the "rapture pre-trib" pill.

Oh noooooooooo!!!!!!I have a relative the same way LOL and she used to call me "anti-jewish" for my view of the Bible after I had read it through a few times. Untrue of course.
Actually I study revelation using Exodus [lead out of bondage] and Joshua [victorious in conquering] as it has a lot these OT "ingredients" in it, whether it is past, present, future or ongoing, it is still a fascinating book to me.
Steve

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[Quahom1]

Welcome, Chokmah.

When I started this thread, it was (still is) disturbing to me how Christians, perhaps subconcsciously, have no real regard for the Jewish faith and yet study it so closely. There is a hypocrisy there. It's like wanting a man's wife, so you convince yourself that he isn't treating her good enough - then you destroy his integrity so you can feel better about persuing her.

That is a rather rough statement. I'd like to see the facts you have to back that suposition concerning "Christians" in general, as you imply. I find it ironic that some could think that Christians have attempted to "steal" from the Jews, when according to scripture, the Jews threw away what they did not accept, while the gentiles (proto-Christians) grabbed for it with desperation, and now refuse to let it go...

So, who coveted what from whom? By your account, Christians simply took what was left on the garbage heap...

One man's trash, is another man's treasure.

v/r

Q

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by truthseeker
Welcome, Chokmah.

When I started this thread, it was (still is) disturbing to me how Christians, perhaps subconcsciously, have no real regard for the Jewish faith and yet study it so closely. There is a hypocrisy there. It's like wanting a man's wife, so you convince yourself that he isn't treating her good enough - then you destroy his integrity so you can feel better about persuing her.

So, who coveted what from whom? By your account, Christians simply took what was left on the garbage heap...

One man's trash, is another man's treasure.

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Q

Don't forget about being "tender vittles" for the lions for "grabbing it".

 

[Quahom1]

November's been rather disappointing for you the last few years, huh? I wish I could empathize, but I enjoy seeing my boys in Scarlet & Gray put the "hurt-on".

Go Bucks!

Eh, I don't really have a problem with that my friend...since 75% of the Buckeyes come from Michigan, and 75% of the Wolverines come from oHIo...

LOL

v/r

Q