o~Death~o

i'm not really sure what i think about death. but i do know that loved ones can come back to you. their memory can hit you like a ton of bricks while washing the dishes, driving home, praying. they can come back to you in at least that form, and their presence is so vividly remembered sometimes you'd swear they were right there where you could touch and see and listen to them again. in the form at least, i believe that we survive death, in memory. and when no one is left to remember us, when all the people for whom our memories would have been affecting and touching are gone, we'll be together at least in the sense that we are all gone to that place of remembering life.
 
how about the people who do not have family and relatives and die lonely?

I suppose there will be always someone above who will take you into there arms. God loves everyone. :)
 
We were dying since the day we were born. Fact of life. People are fixated on death I believe because the uncertainty of what comes after... noone wants to think that they just cease to exist that eventually they wont be remembered... this is why there are so many deathbed conversions because people want the hope of something after they die.
 
I beleive Death is something that we like to ignore but without it you cannot have life. Nature is like an equilibrium(SP?) you need both to balance everything out. I don't believe that the knowledge of death gives us a sexual drive thats just base instinct however I do believe that death is slightly tabboo in our socities.
 
Postmaster said:
how about the people who do not have family and relatives and die lonely?
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that's true. still, i can not be compelled to believe that we ever die completely alone. we effect others just by being here. we are drawn into one anothers' circles one way or another. it doesn't have to be a connection forged with love. true, many people die alone. but inevitably we effect others just by being here, for however long that is.
 
this poem by swami vivekananda beautifully presents the side of devine we prefer to ignore. dedicated as it it to Goddess of death Kali

Kali The Mother

The stars are blotted out,
The clouds are covering clouds,
It is darkness vibrant, sonant.
In the roaring, whirling wind
Are the souls of a million lunatics
Just loose from the prison-house,
Wrenching trees by the roots,
Sweeping all from the path.
The sea has joined the fray,
And swirls up mountain-waves,
To reach the pitchy sky.
The flash of lurid light
Reveals on every side
A thousand, thousand shades
Of Death begrimed and black--
Scattering plagues and sorrows,
Dancing mad with joy,
Come, Mother, come!
For Terror is Thy name,
Death is in Thy breath,
And every shaking step
Destroys a world for e'er.
Thou "Time", the All-Destroyer!
Come, O Mother, come!
Who dares misery love,
And hug the form of Death,
Dance in Destruction's dance,
To him the Mother comes.
 
Postmaster said:

Maybe this is what the whole of nature is powered on. Maybe the more you understand of your dimise on a more consious level the greater you achive but at the same time its a greater burden to carry the more you understand it.

I wonder if anyone else has grasped this idea.
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Great subject. Even though I am not as knowledgeable/experienced as many of you on this subject it seems, I still find it very compelling/interesting to think about.

The understanding of ones own death is called transcendence ( I think that’s what your talking about PM), its something everyone goes through. I believe there are different levels of transcendence and people choose how far they wish to go (or how deeply they want to understand). When you say “the more you understand of your dimise on a more conscious level the greater you achieve but at the same time its a greater burden to carry the more you understand” I think you hit it right on the dot. People choose how much they think about death, and (my opinion) the reason it is slightly taboo is because people are generally apathetic to it and would rather not think about it (thus have less of a burden).

Kind of like that saying, ignorance is bliss. People would rather be “dumb and happy”

PS: I love this site and love being able to share my thoughts to intelligent people who listen. Its hard to find people to talk to about so many of these subjects, especially at my age.
 
I'm glad you agree, a bit of pioneering thinking maybe :D

I'll call it the Skeptophanatos Theory. Which translates in English, Thinking of Death :D Limited to the members of Comparitive-Religion :D

Welcome to this site, it is great!
 
life is a terminal condition.


PM, your recollection of your dream reminds me a bit of this, from the Chuang-tzu sections of the Tao Te Ching:

Once Chuang Chou dreamed he was a butterfly. He was happy as a butterfly, enjoying himself and going where he wanted. He did not know he was Chou. Suddenly he awoke, whereupon he was startled to find he was Chou. He didn't know whether Chou had dreamed he was a butterfly, or if a butterfly were dreaming it was Chou. But as Chou and the butterfly, there must be a distinction. This is called the transformation of beings.
 
Thank you Vajradhara, it sounds very interesting. To me that story reminds me of childhood, although I've grown to be larger, have greater ability and greater thoughts however so different I am, I'm still my original self in there.
 
Postmaster said:
Thank you Vajradhara, it sounds very interesting. To me that story reminds me of childhood, although I've grown to be larger, have greater ability and greater thoughts however so different I am, I'm still my original self in there.
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Namaste Postmaster,

thank you for the response.

what is your "original self"?

i would posit that if your self is capable of change, then it is not the same as it was and it is not now, the same as it will be. it may contain elements that are the same from moment to moment yet it, per se, is not the same.

it is rather like the saying that you cannot step into the same river twice... the river is constantly undergoing change.
 
Thank you Vajradhara, I believe this is where our thinking splits ;) You see I personally believe that I have a purest and most fundamental part of my existence which many go about to call a soul and know matter what, that's the only part of me that counts the most for which ever journey, appearance or situation I'm in. It would be a shame to rename a river every time you enter it.
 
Postmaster said:
Thank you Vajradhara, I believe this is where our thinking splits ;) You see I personally believe that I have a purest and most fundamental part of my existence which many go about to call a soul and know matter what, that's the only part of me that counts the most for which ever journey, appearance or situation I'm in. It would be a shame to rename a river every time you enter it.
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Namaste Postmaster,

not rename... re-experience. the river is constantly undergoing change.. by despoiting sediment and taking in new sediment et al.

heck.. this should be right up your alley, it's a Greek expression :)



Heraclitus of Ephesus (Greek Ηρακλειτος Herakleitos) (about 535 - 475 BC), known as 'The Obscure,' was a pre-Socratic Greek philosopher. He disagreed with Thales, Anaximander, and Pythagoras about the nature of the ultimate substance and claimed instead that everything is derived from the Greek classical element fire, rather than from air, water, or earth. This led to the belief that change is real, and stability illusory. For Heraclitus everything is "in flux", as exemplified in his famous aphorism "Panta Rhei":
Παντα ρει και ουδεν μενει
Everything flows, nothing stands still​
He is famous for saying: "No man can cross the same river twice, because neither the man nor the river are the same."

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/h/he/heraclitus.html
 
Vajradhara said:
Namaste Postmaster,

not rename... re-experience. the river is constantly undergoing change.. by despoiting sediment and taking in new sediment et al.

heck.. this should be right up your alley, it's a Greek expression :)





Heraclitus of Ephesus (Greek Ηρακλειτος Herakleitos) (about 535 - 475 BC), known as 'The Obscure,' was a pre-Socratic Greek philosopher. He disagreed with Thales, Anaximander, and Pythagoras about the nature of the ultimate substance and claimed instead that everything is derived from the Greek classical element fire, rather than from air, water, or earth. This led to the belief that change is real, and stability illusory. For Heraclitus everything is "in flux", as exemplified in his famous aphorism "Panta Rhei":
Παντα ρει και ουδεν μενει

Everything flows, nothing stands still
​
He is famous for saying: "No man can cross the same river twice, because neither the man nor the river are the same."


http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/h/he/heraclitus.html
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He is also credited with the first ideas about the Logos or "Divine Word" that became such a central part of Neo-Platonism and Christianity centuries later.
 
Maybe one of the worlds first false prophets :)

I wonder how famous he became from his originality and suckers :)

Many present day scientists believe they have even come across the most fundamental substance of every part of the universe and life, known as the string theory, they claim everything is made out of nothing more but vibrating strings and they even vibrate on frequencies that our dimension can't grasp.. It is a theory but it's certainly causing a stir in the science world. http://superstringtheory.com/
 
Postmaster said:
Maybe one of the worlds first false prophets :)

I wonder how famous he became from his originality and suckers :)

Many present day scientists believe they have even come across the most fundamental substance of every part of the universe and life, known as the string theory, they claim everything is made out of nothing more but vibrating strings and they even vibrate on frequencies that our dimension can't grasp.. It is a theory but it's certainly causing a stir in the science world. http://superstringtheory.com/
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gravity is a theory as well... but we're fairly confident concerning it... well.. except at the quantum level... but... that's what Drs. Hawking and Turok are for :)
 
:) Some scientists are saying that Gravity should be allot stronger by comparison and mathematics, they believe using this theory that gravity is weaker then it should be because some of it seeps off into an other dimension.. They are even conducting experiments in America and Europe to prove this, if they do it will drastically change our understanding of life and all in existence.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg18624957.300

I'll stick £10 they will be right, even if they can't prove it.
 
I just realised how this theory of mine relates to the stroy of adam and eve.... in some fundamental ways.
 
Postmaster said:
I personally believe that I have a purest and most fundamental part of my existence which many go about to call a soul and know matter what, that's the only part of me that counts the most for which ever journey, appearance or situation I'm in.
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I totally agree with you on that one PM. I avoid the word soul. I would call it, as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso does, the Subtle Mind.

It is my understanding and belief that when any sentient being dies, the Gross mind which incorporates the developed personality, the memories, everything that we have built around ourselves in this life dies. Only the Subtle mind goes on, that most integral part of each of us. At the moment of death the subtle mind forms the bardo, the intermediate state, and eventually enters a new life where a new gross mind builds up again in conjunction with the subtle to produce a new personality.

Because of this, I have absolutely no fear of death (although I would rather live this life as long as I can because I am quite enjoying it). In a funny way Im actually looking foreward to the experience of death the way we might look foreward to the experience of dreaming at night, even though we are fairly sure we will have no memory of it in the morning.
 
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