What is Truth?!

Knowledge, that original post looks familiar...lol.

One Love
CanuckRasta
Lij Marques Benjamin
LIJETHIO Representative for Canada
 
path_of_one said:

I believe that's what Abogado and I were saying as well.
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I concur. The "Law" is the Law of Love, not that of the Old Testament. In Romans, Chapter 2, Paul gives a discourse on those who don't "know" the law but still follow it. To wit:

Romans 2 said:
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth– 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
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Ghandi is an excellent example of a person who abides by the law as written on his heart without mouthing the words or confessing a faith simply in a doctrine or idea. But you don't have to look that far. Nor do you need to look for somebody famous. The world is full of people who earnestly desire to serve others in compassion, respect, forgiveness and tolerance - even in places where the culture does not express the central Truth of Christianity using the symbols of Chrisitianity but rather in their own folk inflection of the elmentary idea.

And it is not their works of goodwill that save them the consequences of sin. But those works bear witnesses to their service in the law of love, for which (in Christian terms) the reward is the goodwill of God: "for at whatever point you judge another you are condemning yourself". To think and act and speak otherwise is to "show contempt for the riches of God's kindness, tolerance and patience."
 
Abogado del Diablo said:


I concur. The "Law" is the Law of Love, not that of the Old Testament. In Romans, Chapter 2, Paul gives a discourse on those who don't "know" the law but still follow it. To wit:




Ghandi is an excellent example of a person who abides by the law as written on his heart without mouthing the words or confessing a faith simply in a doctrine or idea. But you don't have to look that far. Nor do you need to look for somebody famous. The world is full of people who earnestly desire to serve others in compassion, respect, forgiveness and tolerance - even in places where the culture does not express the central Truth of Christianity using the symbols of Chrisitianity but rather in their own folk inflection of the elmentary idea.

And it is not their works of goodwill that save them the consequences of sin. But those works bear witnesses to their service in the law of love, for which (in Christian terms) the reward is the goodwill of God: "for at whatever point you judge another you are condemning yourself". To think and act and speak otherwise is to "show contempt for the riches of God's kindness, tolerance and patience."
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Dear AdD,

Thank you for pointing this out--I concur that the Law of Love is that which supercedes and directs the intentions of the other written laws. However, if I remember correctly way back in the morality and evolution thread when I was advocating the Law of Love you suggested that even this is not a universal law or truth. Did I misunderstand you?

peace
lunamoth

must run but hope to return to the thread later.
 
lunamoth said:
Dear AdD,

Thank you for pointing this out--I concur that the Law of Love is that which supercedes and directs the intentions of the other written laws. However, if I remember correctly way back in the morality and evolution thread when I was advocating the Law of Love you suggested that even this is not a universal law or truth. Did I misunderstand you?

peace
lunamoth

must run but hope to return to the thread later.
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Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. I think it arises out of the different contexts for the discussion. Let me see if I can explain, though this will be difficult:

The law of love, rightly understood, is not technically a "law" at all. Once you "know" it, you are not compelled to do certain acts and refrain from others as you would with a law or rule. It contains no element of obligation. Indeed, for lack of a better word, it is "obeyed" only out of a sense of personal choice and aesthics rather than any notion of duty. That's what I was getting at in the "Evolution" thread. Take a look at those posts where I juxtaposed excerpts from Paul next to excerpts from Nietzsche.

This is a very difficult concept to express in writing. I hope this helps clarify things.
 
BluejayWay and AdD, thank you. Your posts brought tears to my eyes, because I truly believe that it is love that is the central "law" of following Jesus, and we find that expression of love in people of all faiths.

I always try to remember the lesson of the cross... that even as Jesus was being horribly persecuted without reason, he asked God to forgive his persecutors because "they know not what they do." He did not yell at them that they were wrong, or try to convince them to change, or fight. He just loved them until the end. I try to remember that.
 
Abogado del Diablo said:
lunamoth:

I found a post I wrote dealing with morality and the law of love in the "Morality in Evolution" thread that expresses this idea much better than I did in this thread:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14319&postcount=216
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Dear AdD, Yes, that does express it well. To me the law is like a framework that takes the form and shape of the Real Thing while we learn. Love is a state of being, it transcends obedience driven by fear or desire. But, ha! I often still rely on the framework because I fall short of being able to be perfect love.

To me God embodies and is the source of this Perfect Love in which we are participants. Some think of It as the Ground of Being which to me implies an interior Something More and others think of It as God which implies an exterior Something More but God must be somehow both (so I like the Ocean metaphor). But, God in His Love and Mercy, knowing we are material and need material things, came to us in Jesus so that we could personally know His Love, see it, touch it, taste it, live it.

an imperfect being with imperfect thoughts, but not orphaned,
lunamoth
 
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Regards, Knowlege.

CR is a place for dialogue. It is well you have your opinions, and it is well you have your path. What is not well is the implication all too frequent in your posts that you have exclusive knowledge of how God and Jesus operate, and that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is somehow wrong.

For example:
Knowledge said:
This by the way, isnt my words, but the Bible's.
(Perhaps, but the implication is that those who disagree with your personal interpretation are amiss -jt3)

Honestly, there is ONLY ONE interpretation of the Bible -- God's interpreatation. If we let the scriptures interprete itself, we will be OK.
(Do you honestly think that others here do not allow the scriptures to speak to them? -jt3)

Because, while he was the most tolerant man ever, he remained intolerant towards religion and other ways. Jesus knowing that he IS THE ONLY way to God, said it because he desiers to save men.
(Perhaps, but do you not find it ironic then that a religion is based on Jesus, if Jesus is intolerant towards religion?-jt3)

We're all born sinners because of the sin DNA in us.
(I must have missed this in the genome sequence, -jt3)

The fact is, unless they repent and put their trust in Jesus (Born again), they remain unsaved, and thus end up being sincerly wrong!
(Your opinion is not the same as fact, -jt3)

We Christians dont try to save ourselves by good deeds, but instead, we repent, and put our trust in Jesus, the one that paid our fine. Knowing and excepting this truth, has made us redeemed children of God, who now have a relationship with God, and not a religion.
(Again, this is your opinion. This subject has been discussed numerous times throughout this board, and not ALL Christians agree with your conclusions, even "born again" Christians, -jt3)

here's what I propose. Take Jesus on his word. Repent (STOP sinning), ask him into your life, and read the Bible.
(Proselytising is not acceptable in this community. Do you really think for even a moment that other Christians here have not already done these very things? -jt3)

God's words tell me so.
(Again, your opinion, or interpretation, of God's word unless you have some exclusive connection to the Almighty, which I seriously doubt. -jt3)

those that never come to Jesus never get redeemed.
(It might do you well to consider Romans chapter 2, beginning around verse ten. Then do an indepth study of the sixth day and eighth day of Creation in Genesis. Perhaps you might come away with a slightly different perspective, a much more tolerant one at that. -jt3)

Instead, people seek to find their own way, leaning on their own understanding,
(Including yourself? -jt3)

Try Jesus!
(Once again, proselytising, which is not acceptable here. -jt3)

Actually, God's Laws were first given to the Jew; for his own reason, but are ment for the whole world!
(Your opinion, and there are countless millions of God loving and truth seeking people who would disagree with you. -jt3)

Are you a good person? Have you ever lied, lusted, stole something, called God's name in vain, wanted what someone else wanted?
(Are you? Have you? -jt3)

Come to Jesus that you may know true righteousness!
(Unacceptable, -jt3)

The truth that ALL need a Savior is written on your heart. Look at yourself in the mirrior of God's Devine Law -- The Ten Commendments. Jugde yourself with the Law, and listen to your conscience.
(Considering the Ten Commandments do not even mention Jesus, and the FACT that the Gospels claim Jesus said there are only two commandments, means this is your opinion. -jt3)

I want to remind you that Jesus said time and again that Salavation is ONLY through him. This is the underlining mesesage of the WHOLE Bible, incidentially.
(Considering that Jesus makes His debut in the New Testament, are you implying that the Jews, let alone any of the rest of God's creation, are not "worthy" of salvation? If not, it sure seems that way. Rather judgemental, don't you think? -jt3)
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I pulled this merely as an example. I saw numerous other comments in other posts that go along with these. I am hoping you will see why such things are not acceptable. This is a place for dialogue, for respectful interaction between faiths, and not limited solely to Christianity. It is not a place for being judgemental. It is not a place for proselytising. It is not a place for self-proclaimed prophets. It is not a place for finger-pointing and name-calling.

This is a place for sharing of ideas and opinions. You are certainly allowed to have and share yours. But implying that your way (and it is your way) is the only way, is absolutely not acceptable. I am considering that you are new here, and that you have "good" intentions. But I have to insist that you tone down the rhetoric. Consider this a friendly warning.

I once heard it said, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
 
I agree that he's been a little aggressive with pushing the message of the gospels but I also thought that this forum was an ok place for discussion of Christianity from a Christians point of view.. whether it be apologetics bible discussion evangalism or theory..Would he have spoken like that in comparative religion I can understand that sort of rebuke but I do not believe that it was completely warranted here. To him... those things are fact and many Christians on this forum believe the same way he does. Maybe some definition other than Quahoms or Brians needs to be made because according to Q and Brians definition of what the Christian forum is for and how its to be used.. I dont see how he did anything wrong. The topic of this thread is what is truth.. his posts were what the truth was to him. People do not have to agree with him.

another 2 cents of mine.

(Faithful, I love you like a sister. The point is not his opinion, the point is what he is doing with his opinion, and his attempting to convert others. He is being very disrespectful and intolerant, and that is not acceptable. -jt3)
 
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juantoo3 said:
This is a place for dialogue, for respectful interaction between faiths, and not limited solely to Christianity."
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The Christianity board is for the discussion of Christianity and issues pertaining to Christianity. http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2414


If I look at that post I cant see where he said anything for you to come down on him for...now if yall truely want to take all refrence to Biblical scriptures and what Christianity is all about off the Christianity board then let me know.

(Yes to the first part, no the second. And my reasons were very clearly spelled out. This forum is much larger than the Christianity boards alone. If the intent of anyone is hatred disguised as love, it is neither Christian nor welcome. We have had enough problems with self-proclaimed know-it-all prophets lately. Knowledge's posts do not invite discussion, respectful or otherwise. He is telling people what they must believe. You are free to agree with his opinion, I welcome that. But insisting that those who view the Bible or any other religious texts in some way different from his opinion are damned to hell, is not acceptable. If anybody wishes to convert others by standing on a soapbox, you are being politely asked to leave. -jt3)
 
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The fact is, unless they repent and put their trust in Jesus (Born again), they remain unsaved, and thus end up being sincerly wrong!
(Your opinion is not the same as fact, -jt3) Jt3 that isnt opinion to some Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We Christians dont try to save ourselves by good deeds, but instead, we repent, and put our trust in Jesus, the one that paid our fine. Knowing and excepting this truth, has made us redeemed children of God, who now have a relationship with God, and not a religion.
(Again, this is your opinion. This subject has been discussed numerous times throughout this board, and not ALL Christians agree with your conclusions, even "born again" Christians, -jt3) Once again not opinion to bible believers.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Actually, God's Laws were first given to the Jew; for his own reason, but are ment for the whole world!
(Your opinion, and there are countless millions of God loving and truth seeking people who would disagree with you. -jt3) Once again read the Bible from the very beginning it was Gods dealings with the Jewish people throughout.

Are you a good person? Have you ever lied, lusted, stole something, called God's name in vain, wanted what someone else wanted?
(Are you? Have you? -jt3) No man has been, that is why Jesus came.Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Come to Jesus that you may know true righteousness!
(Unacceptable, -jt3)1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The truth that ALL need a Savior is written on your heart. Look at yourself in the mirrior of God's Devine Law -- The Ten Commendments. Jugde yourself with the Law, and listen to your conscience.
(Considering the Ten Commandments do not even mention Jesus, and the FACT that the Gospels claim Jesus said there are only two commandments, means this is your opinion. -jt3) Read the Bible Matt chp 5 the sermon on the mount and he covers the ten commandments...the two he claimed, if you think about it, will cover all 10 of them anyway.

I want to remind you that Jesus said time and again that Salavation is ONLY through him. This is the underlining mesesage of the WHOLE Bible, incidentially.
(Considering that Jesus makes His debut in the New Testament, are you implying that the Jews, let alone any of the rest of God's creation, are not "worthy" of salvation? If not, it sure seems that way. Rather judgemental, don't you think? -jt3) Well, he did say that many times if you read it.

Actually what I thought was Judgemental was the blatant attack on someone for posting Biblical beliefs on the Christianity board. As I said if a belief in the bible and Jesus being the Truth, the Light and the ONLY way is unwelcome on the Christianity board please let me know!!!!!!!!!!


 
every thread in this Christian forum almost needs to be started with ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE or ACCORDING TO THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

as i said from the start what is truth, can mean anything & is not appropriate to have the christians be forced to defend or deny what they believe is truth.
the bible believers are expected to be tolerant to every wind of doctrine, but when it comes to Jesus being the truth & the way, we are quite often not allowed to speak it.
the believers are challenged & confronted daily to defend themsleves.

This is the EXACT thing everyone of the apostles were shut down for!

DO NOT TEACH OR PREACH IN THE NAME OR AUTHORITY OF JESUS.

the death of Jesus is for the remission of sin. He was not only crucified but he was BEATEN, tortured, mocked, spit on, stripped of his diginity & pride.
Jesus was innocent & without sin! & he laid down his life for sin & to redeem man.
if people do not want to accept it, ---oh well.

so what we have is a world who likes the ITCHY EAR DOCTRINE, the HOOTCIE KOOTCHIE Love doctrine. tell me a lie & I will believe it. Tell me about LOVE but falsely accuse the brothers. WOE.

Tell me about Jesus & his blood for remission of sin & you get confronted & despised.

Jesus is the way, the light & the TRUTH. & from what I can see he is the ONLY way.
I dont see Buddah or Muhammed or mystics or Krishner or any other person laying down there life for me, & NO ONE will ever take Jesus away from me. Neither will they take Jesus awya from my brothers & sisters:) .

Here is some truth-
Christians are the most persecuted of all religions to date. there are more than 200 million bible believers who confess Jesus in the world today who are beaten, exiled, imprisoned & charged falsely.
While I am aware there are lies in some Christianity, there are many more lies in the world, politics, economics & in false doctrines that compromise the bible & the Lord Jesus.

They are not asked "Do you serve God". they are asked do you serve Jesus or have a bible. & when they confess, they are hauled off to prison or executed.

Dont put WHAT IS TRUTH, in the Christian forum & expect believers to deny that Jesus is the way & the TRUTH & the life.
 
me 2 c

I would hate to see Christian viewpoints silenced on the Christian forum. I didn't look to see from where Jt3 pulled all the quotes, but if they were not on the Christianity board I would agree they were out of place. However, overly forceful pressing of one's viewpoint, unless in response to direct questioning, does seem to go against the spirit of a comparative religion forum.

I like the diversity of voices here and learn a lot from everyone, but I also wouldn't want things to devolve into a free-for-all.

peace,
lunamoth

(Thank you Luna, that is precisely what I am at. -jt3, and yes the points I took issue with were in this very thread.)
 
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Bandit said:
Tell me about Jesus & his blood for remission of sin & you get confronted & despised.

Here is some truth-
Christians are the most persecuted of all religions to date. there are more than 200 million bible believers who confess Jesus in the world today who are beaten, exiled, imprisoned & charged falsely.
While I am aware there are lies in some Christianity, there are many more lies in the world, politics, economics & in false doctrines that compromise the bible & the Lord Jesus.

They are not asked "Do you serve God". they are asked do you serve Jesus or have a bible. & when they confess, they are hauled off to prison or executed.

Dont put WHAT IS TRUTH, in the Christian forum & expect believers to deny that Jesus is the way & the TRUTH & the life.
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Whoa, Bandit. That was hot.

You know, you are a Christian who knows how Jesus has saved your life. I have met few Christians who are like that. The Christians that I meet on a regular basis are those who use the doctrine to be heard. They don't pray to rightly divide the information, however, preaching for Christ makes them feel important. Where they get no respect, they use the Bible to gain their respect. I hope you understand what I mean. These are the Christians that are persecuted. Jesus is light. If sharing the doctrine with someone doesn't bring them light, then they are not ready to recieve the information, the seed is being planted, or the information is not rightly divided. You've seen Christians that want to come at you and tell you that you are going to hell right now because you aren't living right. Then they want to pressure you to come to God right now because you can go to hell any second. That kind of information is not taken lightly. Jesus instructed how to do this stuff but noooo, every body wants a quick ticket to heaven by believing that they are doing something right because they are about to die like Jesus did. Jesus came to fulfill the Law. He didn't instruct all of his apostles to do it too.
 
For: Dor

(Your opinion is not the same as fact, -jt3) Jt3 that isnt opinion to some Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I dont get what you're saying. You just gave a scripture that proves my point. We MUST be born again. The born again experience occurs when we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. So again, whats your point?

(Again, this is your opinion. This subject has been discussed numerous times throughout this board, and not ALL Christians agree with your conclusions, even "born again" Christians, -jt3) Once again not opinion to bible believers.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

You are aware that you cannot refute my claims by agree with me, right? Once again you've proved my point. That we are saved soley by Grace, and not of our own works.

(Your opinion, and there are countless millions of God loving and truth seeking people who would disagree with you. -jt3) Once again read the Bible from the very beginning it was Gods dealings with the Jewish people throughout.

Really? Was Abram a Jew/Hebrew? Wait, let me answer. No, he was not! And, he was called a friend of God, and his name was changed to Abraham.

(Are you? Have you? -jt3) No man has been, that is why Jesus came.Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Are you reading what I say, or are just picking out certain things to speak on? If you've read what I said as a whole, you'd know that I agree with what you said here. I even stated that NO ONE IS GOOD BUT GOD!

Considering the Ten Commandments do not even mention Jesus, and the FACT that the Gospels claim Jesus said there are only two commandments, means this is your opinion. -jt3) Read the Bible Matt chp 5 the sermon on the mount and he covers the ten commandments...the two he claimed, if you think about it, will cover all 10 of them anyway.

Someone needs to study the bible as a whole! First of all, I should say that like any other book, the Bible has the answers in the back. The NT tells us that the Ten Commandments were given to bring a sinner to the awareness of his/her sin, and to show us our NEED for a Savior. Secondly, Jesus didnt say that they are only 2 commandment. He said that the 2 MOST important are, Love God, then love mankind as you love yourself. Do this, he said, and you will fufill the whole Law. Pay attention to what you read!

Considering that Jesus makes His debut in the New Testament, are you implying that the Jews, let alone any of the rest of God's creation, are not "worthy" of salvation? If not, it sure seems that way. Rather judgemental, don't you think? -jt3) Well, he did say that many times if you read it.

Jesus made his debute as "Jesus" in the NT. I agree with. But, he was always there, even in the OT. He was with Moses in the desert, and with the 3 Hebrew boys in the furnice. All this is recored in the NT, by the way. Check it out. That said, yes I am implying that humanity doesnt deserve salvation. None of us can say we deserve God. But, arent you glad that God forgives, and has made a way out for us? Thank God for Jesus and the Cross, huh?

(Now see, this is acceptable. This post is an example of discussion, not force feeding opinion. As long as the posts remain in this vein, I will stay out of it. I will caution though about the last part of this post, generalities when talking about the world "deserving salvation" seem acceptable, but when this degenerates to finger-pointing at specific groups, it is no longer acceptable, -jt3)
 
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Just wanted to chime in here and say I don't think any Christian viewpoints should be silenced on this forum. This is the Christianity forum, so it should be safe for Christians of all viewpoints, from fundamental to liberal, traditional to mystic, to express their views. Of course all Christians don't agree on a lot of points, because there is a lot of variety in Christianity. But all who read the Bible and follow Christ should be allowed to speak, in my opinion. I do think that where it gets dicey is when Christians accuse one another of not being "real" Christians because there are these disagreements. Personally, I have a pretty thick skin so I don't mind it- I'm used to it in fact- but I do appreciate the overall respectful dialogue here.

(path of one, welcome to CR! For the most part I agree with what you say here. There is a fine line across which not to step. -jt3)
 
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For: Path of One

And I suppose that you somehow have God's commentary on how the Bible is to be interpreted? Sorry, but I don't think any of us humans on earth has God's interpretation.

Correct assumption - no human has has God's interpretation. That is why God wants us to be born again. Only when that occurs, we will have God in us teaching us truth. This is the relationship with God Jesus came to give us.

All we have is the Word, and it is up to us to interpret it. Scriptures do not interpret themselves. If they did, people wouldn't need pastors, biblical scholars, translators, Bible dictionaries, or Bible studies. We can call upon the Holy Spirit to help us understand

The Scripture say that when we're born again, we will have the Holy Spirt, and he will prove and show us truth. When we're born again, we will KNOW truth, and the truth will set us free. When we're truely born again, we'll know the people of God, and we wont have any need for teachers because God will show us what he means. When we're not born again, we'll be confused with many answers, and left to rely on our own understanding.

Where in scripture did Jesus preach intolerance of others? The most he ever said was that he was sent for the Jewish people, and that his disciples were not to enter Gentile towns. They didn't kill him because he was intolerant. They killed him because he was gaining a large following and the elite (both Jewish and Roman) were worried that he would cause social and political problems.

LOL<*edited for disrespect, jt3> Jesus was killed because he spoke the truth. The Lord was intolerant to other ways. Why? Because He knew religon only leads people to Hell. Foreal man, the roads to hell is paved with religious people who thought they were to good for a Savior. There is NONE Good! Rememeber, Jesus didnt say that he was "a way" to God, but "THE WAY." That would be considered pretty intolerant to those not in the know.

I know quite a few non-Christians that bear the fruit discussed in the Galatians scripture above. A great example we all can relate to is Ghandi. He was not Christian, but he exhibited all the fruits of the Spirit.

No bad tree bares bad fruit, Jesus said. And, he didnt lie. That said, baring fruit isnt all there is. There is still the fact of admitting to oneself that we are not good by God standards. We NEED a Savior. We Must be born again! If you continue to beleive you're good, you're calling God a liar.

And as I am a mystic

You said you have Jesus, and said that you're a mystic. <*edited for disrespect, jt3> Please, dont think Im judging you - I cant! (*Ah, but you really are and deceiving yourself in the process, -jt3) Im just saying that you're contradicting yourself. Thats all.

Actually, Jesus said: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your heavenly Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15).

If you're gonna qoute the Lord, please be sure to understand what he was talking about in context. Jesus, as well as the whole bible say over and again, that Jesus is the ONLY way to God.

Again, as I said good does not equal perfect.

No, Good by God's standards equate to being sinless. Im talking about God's standards here <*edited for disrespect, -jt3>.

All right, in Matthew alone we have:
Follow the commandments 5:19, 19:16-21
Love your enemies 5:44

You typed all that (I left out some), <*edited for disrespect, -jt3>. Jesus said if we keep the Law we shall live. Yet, the Bible says that NO ONE can keep the whole law. So, if none can keep the whole Law, how can we get to heaven? <*edited for proselytising, -jt3>

I don't think we're saved by works. Or by our faith, because we all have had times we doubt. I believe we're saved and enter God's presence purely out of the goodness, grace, and mercy of God. I do believe that cultivating a personal relationship with God yields good fruit, as Jesus taught.

<*edited for disrespect, -jt3> Here's a scripture that you may want to memorize: It is better to trust God, than to rely on your own understanding.
 
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Knowledge, it is apparent that either you did not read my earlier post to you about how to conduct yourself, or you have deliberately ignored it. I strongly urge you to go back and find the recent post I made to you in this thread and read it, and read the comments I made above. You are being monitored closely because your methods are not acceptable. You are rude, arrogant and judgemental. IF you can conduct yourself politely and respectfully, I will leave you alone. If not, you will be asked to leave.
 
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