What is Truth?!

[Knowledge]

juantoo3,

You called me Rude. Why? I never said anything mean to you or anyone else. You called me arrogant. Why? Is it because Im confident in the Lord? You called me judgemental. I dont get why you say this. I tell you the truth - God has no favorites, we're all sinners, and we all need a Savior, including me. So, how is that being judgemental?

Let me know the deal,

Knowledge

 

[path_of_one]

The Scripture say that when we're born again, we will have the Holy Spirt, and he will prove and show us truth. When we're born again, we will KNOW truth, and the truth will set us free.

Yep, and I am born again and have Christ in my life, so I believe I have the Holy Spirit to guide me.

LOL! Do you actually read the Bible? Jesus was killed because he spoke the truth. The Lord was intolerant to other ways.

I think it's pretty obvious through my use of scripture in my posts that I read my Bible. It's offensive and rude to imply that I do not just because you don't agree with my interpretations of the scriptures. You have your right to your interpretation, and I have mine, and you don't see me questioning your validity as a Christian or laughing at you. I also believe that Jesus was killed because he spoke truth, but not because he was intolerant, but because the truth would change people and their relationship to their society and the people in power.

No bad tree bares bad fruit, Jesus said. And, he didnt lie. That said, baring fruit isnt all there is. There is still the fact of admitting to oneself that we are not good by God standards. We NEED a Savior. We Must be born again! If you continue to beleive you're good, you're calling God a liar.

This is contradictory. According to your own words, we receive the Holy Spirit to help us know the truth when we become born again. The Holy Spirit also results in our bearing the "fruits of the Spirit." So, the only way we can bear the fruits of the Spirit is to have the Holy Spirit, which would indicate that we are born again, and hence also have the Spirit to help us know the truth.

You said you have Jesus, and said that you're a mystic. Of course you do know that the Bible would consider you confused, right?

The definition of mysticism (from the dictionary):
1 : the experience of union or direct communion with ultimate reality
2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)

So, being a Christ-following mystic is to seek direct knowledge of God, Jesus, and spiritual truth. It is to seek communion with God. It is to believe that we can personally experience God and have intuitive insight into scripture.

Prove with scripture that we are not supposed to seek a real and personal experience of God. Isn't that the whole point? To know Jesus and God personally, and cultivate a relationship with them?

If you're gonna qoute the Lord, please be sure to understand what he was talking about in context. Jesus, as well as the whole bible say over and again, that Jesus is the ONLY way to God.

And how do you take this scripture? Are you saying somehow the context changes what Jesus said? Care to give your interpretation of this particular scripture, and the scriptural basis to back it up? I'm completely open to reinterpretation, but I do expect it to be backed up with scriptural, linguistic, or other evidence. It doesn't do much for me to have someone I don't even know just tell me my interpretation is wrong, especially when my interpretation was literal.

No, Good by God's standards equate to being sinless. Im talking about God's standards here homie.

God called some people in the OT righteous (which to me is equated with being good) and they were not sinless, and they also lived before Jesus. For example:
"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
These are the generations of noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God." (Genesis 6:8)

And I am not a homie or a guy, just FIY. LOL. I'm actually a gal.

You typed all that (I left out some), and still dont understand. Jesus said if we keep the Law we shall live.

Well, if you'd like to contribute a cohesive interpretation based on scripture and how it relates to the aforementioned scripture as well as the numerous others in the gospels, I'm more than happy to meditate on it and take it to God in prayer. So far, you've mostly just repeated yourself and said that I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong. And a good deal of those scriptures do not deal with the "law" as it were, but are dealing with forgiveness, compassion, attachment to possessions, humility, etc. and not directly with the commandments. The law was the 613(?) moral rules that the Jews lived by.

There you go thinking again. Here's a scripture that you may want to memorize: It is better to trust God, than to rely on your own understanding.

As I said before, I don't claim to have The Absolute Truth. There are good reasons why I say "think," "believe," "experience." And also, thinking is employing our brain, which God gave us so that we can read the scripture and meditate on it. I do not think that thought and contemplation is evil.

I trust God and know Jesus, and so I trust that my understanding has been informed by the Holy Spirit. It is only by the grace of God that we are able to catch even a glimpse of God.

My own understanding is what I lean on when I seek scientific truth.
God is what I lean on when I seek spiritual truth.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards to all!

It seems that my moderating is being questioned by some here. My first response is to ignore the questions. But the members here who do make an effort to be respectful deserve an explanation. I edited Knowledge's post above, to show what it is I am talking about. As you can see, it is not his/her beliefs that concern me. It is the way s/he is conveying those beliefs, and the intolerant attitude that goes with it. I agree with some of his/her post, I disagree with some of his/her post. I did not edit the things I disagree with. I edited the offensive language being used. Name-calling and implication of stupidity are not acceptable. And besides the FACT (by the Code of Conduct) that proselytising is not allowed, why does this person feel the need to "save" other Christians? His opinion is his opinion. It is not fact. It is perfectly acceptable to share his/her opinion. It is not acceptable for him/her to shove it down the throat of somebody who disagrees with him/her.

Intolerance leads to enough war, death, hate and destruction in this world. If you wish to be intolerant, I would suggest this is not the place for you. If, on the other hand, you wish to promote peace, respect and tolerance as Jesus did, (and so many other of God's children), that is what this place is about. And I will defend that to my dying breath against intolerant bigotry, no matter who spouts it, including and especially "Super-Christians."

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God" -Matt. 5:9

I feel the need to note something I feel is very important. This is NOT the Christianity forum, it is the Christianity board on the Comparative-Religion forum. It might seem a small thing, but it is important. There are others of other faiths here as well. And because of that it is not right to be disrespectful in any way, shape or form towards others.

 

[juantoo3]

juantoo3,

You called me Rude. Why? I never said anything mean to you or anyone else. You called me arrogant. Why? Is it because Im confident in the Lord? You called me judgemental. I dont get why you say this. I tell you the truth - God has no favorites, we're all sinners, and we all need a Savior, including me. So, how is that being judgemental?

Let me know the deal,

Knowledge

I already have, assuming your eyes are still open and your ears can still hear.

Please note post #29, addressed specifically to you.

 

[Knowledge]

Path of One,

I have a request to ask of you. Its clear that you and I have different believes on the Bible, so I was wondering if we can debate on certain things. I'll be sure to use scripture to back up my claims, and not to repeat myself, unless I feel it necessary to. Oh, one other thing. I would have never guessed that you was a female. Sorry for ASSuming!

Later,

Knowledge

 

[Knowledge]

Oh, now I rememeber post #29. It was the one I skiped. Its a little to long to read now. Im actually tryinng to witness while watching the game. I'll have to read that later. That said, I dont have to read it to see that you misjudge me. And, in doing so, you've actually become the rude, arrogant, and judgemental one, incidentially.

 

[juantoo3]

Your actions speak far louder than your words, my friend.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Knowledge.. FYI If you read Dors post carefully he was defending everything you said using scripture to back it up and you jumped on him like he was attacking you. Maybe you should save it for after the game since your multi-tasking seems a bit off mark

 

[CanuckRasta]

Guys, this is Knowledge. I should know, I spent months with him on a Rasta forum. He routinely had 500 Rastas after him with the same complaints.

He is like a pendulum. At times, he may be very helpful, or he could be disrespectful and pushy.

One Love
CanuckRasta

 

[truthseeker]

Tact can be an elusive thing in the midst of zeal. But he said it: He was witnessing. I wonder how far Christianity would have gone if Jesus was watching the game while He was prophesizing?

 

[BluejayWay]

But he said it: He was witnessing.

He may have said he was witnessing, but like many other things he said, there's little evidence of it.
His actions here are like the streetcorner preacher marching his temperance campaign into a tavern. He's going to get nothing but abuse, and that appears to be what he wants. Weirdly masochistic, to me.
True witnessing seeks common ground, not confrontation. I really didn't feel any Christlike concern and caring--which could be just me. He could have been quite sincere in wanting to save souls, but doing it the way he did, he's not gonna get too far, I'm afraid.

Back on topic here, Truth, I think, is something to be strived for, not necessarily reached--

 

[path_of_one]

Path of One,

I have a request to ask of you. Its clear that you and I have different believes on the Bible, so I was wondering if we can debate on certain things. I'll be sure to use scripture to back up my claims, and not to repeat myself, unless I feel it necessary to. Oh, one other thing. I would have never guessed that you was a female. Sorry for ASSuming!

Later,

Knowledge

Obviously through my posts, I have absolutely no problem discussing and debating theological issues. I really enjoy it, and I find it is stimulating and gives me new perspectives and interpretations that I can take to God in prayer. I will not debate issues not relevant to the thread they are found in, though... we kind of got off on a tangent in the "Homosexuality" thread and I don't want readers to have to slog through barely relevant information.

I just require that an interpretation or perspective be scripturally based and thoroughly cohesive before it meets the "test" so to speak for me. If someone says my interpretations or ideas are wrong, I expect at least scriptural, linguistic, or historical reasons to be given of why my views are wrong, since I tend to be rather nit-picky in my own reading of scripture and attentive to the original languages, cultures, religions, and history that grounds the scriptures in context.

Debate is healthy, in my opinion, and does not offend me. I'm a scientist and deal with it all the time! What does offend me is someone questioning my love of Jesus, my relationship with God, my access to the Holy Spirit, or the passion of my commitment to spiritual learning. These are things that no one should call into question, because they do not know me. If I didn't love Jesus and worship God, I wouldn't be posting in the Christianity forum because I would think it disrespectful (not to mention, why would I care about a Christianity forum?). I am also trying to limit my discussions on the Christianity board to beliefs that are directly supported by scripture, posting on other boards other beliefs I have based on solely the mystical experience and other texts. I think that division is appropriate given the topics of the forums.

I have worked and been friends with numerous conservative and fundamental Christians over the years, and I worked in a fundamental non-profit Christian organization for about five years. So I am well-aware of the mainstream ways the Bible is interpreted, the worldviews of fundamentals and conservatives, and so forth. I love my friends and I don't judge them, even though I have different interpretations and a very different worldview. I just rejoice that they have found a path in which they love God and become better people for it. I do consistently speak out for tolerance and peace, though. Tolerance is not the same thing as acceptance, and to me it is extending the love letter of Jesus when we are peacemakers and tolerant of others. Tolerance is embracing people no matter what, being compassionate in their struggles and rejoicing in their joys. Acceptance is agreeing with them.

I do not call myself a Christian because I realize that most Christians have an idea of what that label means, and I am outside that idea for many conservatives and fundamentals. I am not into organized religion for myself, though I think it has a great impact on some people's lives. And though some Christians say that their religion is not organized, socially it is. Having a church, a leadership, a liturgy, ritual, etc. is all organization. That is not necessarily a bad thing, just not for me.

So I call myself a mystic, because that is my spiritual path. I study the Bible most extensively, but I also study other sacred texts and the history of other religions and cultures. For me, there is wisdom and beauty in all peoples' search for God, whether or not I agree with them. Ultimately, I am a mystic that is a Christ-follower. If you wish, there is more information about Christian mystics here: www.christianmystics.com. If it's OK to have posted that website, I think it gives some insight into the history of Christian mysticism as well as its contemporary forms. I don't agree with everything on the website, but it gives a fair idea of what Christian mysticism has and does look like in practice. For me, it is a spiritual path that is grounded on direct experience of God and intuitive insight into scripture, as well as careful study of the Word (including putting scripture in the context of its religious background of Judaism, the cultures of the Middle East, and the relevant languages of the time period).

And that's OK that you didn't think I was a woman, just figured I'd let you in on that tidbit of info. since you obviously thought I was a man!

 

[BluejayWay]

Tolerance...is extending the love letter of Jesus when we are peacemakers and tolerant of others. Tolerance is embracing people no matter what, being compassionate in their struggles and rejoicing in their joys.

Thanks for the reminder, path_of_one--I can use a reminder, now and again--

(and thanks for the Christain mystics link--I've bookmarked it--)

 

[Conscience]

Tolerance...is extending the love letter of Jesus when we are peacemakers and tolerant of others. Tolerance is embracing people no matter what, being compassionate in their struggles and rejoicing in their joys.

Awesome words! Jesus said that the 2 most important Commandments is LOVE. First, LOVE God with all your mind, heart, and soul. Then, love mankind as you love yourself. Do this and you fulfill the whole law, he said. Again, LOVE is the key, way, and answer!

But, while we are to show love, we are not to except things that God is against. And, one sure thing that God is against, is other ways to him. Jesus said that the path to God is a narrow road, and its ONLY through him that we can get there. Now think about it. Why would Jesus say that he alone is the only way? Could it be that he is telling the truth -- that religons; while having a lot of good quilities, only lead men to have a false belief that they are good, when in fact they are transgressors of God's Laws? And, if they are in fact guilty of breaking God's laws, no amount of good deeds we do can negate, or take away the fact that we've broken the Law. So where does that lead us? Well, I guess it leads us back to Jesus, who claims to be the ONLY way to God, because he is the one that died to pay for the price of our sins.

 

[lunamoth]

What is Truth!?



Religon is Man's attempt to reach God. But, through a man called Jesus, God reached down to man. Drop religion and pick up the Saviour of the world. You need Jesus!


--Conscience

hmmmm....

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Knowledge!

Awesome words! Jesus said that the 2 most important Commandments is LOVE. First, LOVE God with all your mind, heart, and soul. Then, love mankind as you love yourself. Do this and you fulfill the whole law, he said. Again, LOVE is the key, way, and answer!

Yes, He did. I can't help but wonder though, if you believe that people of other faiths are not capable of loving God or their neighbors?

But, while we are to show love, we are not to except things that God is against.

As I have pointed out many times, tolerance is not acceptance. No, we do not have to accept the deed, but we do have to love the person.

And, one sure thing that God is against, is other ways to him. Jesus said that the path to God is a narrow road, and its ONLY through him that we can get there. Now think about it. Why would Jesus say that he alone is the only way? Could it be that he is telling the truth -- that religons; while having a lot of good quilities, only lead men to have a false belief that they are good, when in fact they are transgressors of God's Laws? And, if they are in fact guilty of breaking God's laws, no amount of good deeds we do can negate, or take away the fact that we've broken the Law. So where does that lead us? Well, I guess it leads us back to Jesus, who claims to be the ONLY way to God, because he is the one that died to pay for the price of our sins.

OK, something I see you struggling with is the idea that God made all of humanity. I pointed to Genesis already, the sixth day creation, Adam (without the article), male and female created He them, and it was very good. The man Adam, ha-Adam (with the article) was not created until the eighth day. Where else would Cain get a wife when he was exiled? He went to the land of Nod where there were people of the sixth day creation living. He did not marry his sister as some would try to say.

The narrow road is the living and doing of the teachings of Christ. As James said, "be ye doers, and not hearers only." You may be saved by grace (unmerited favor), but your actions are your fruit. People of other faiths are equally capable of bearing fruit in accordance with what they know. The teachings of Christ are mirrored pretty doggone well in the other major faiths. Again I point to Romans chapter 2. Those who have not the law by nature do the things contained in the law, it is written in their hearts, -my paraphrase. The word also tells us that a person is not held accountable for the things they do not know. Genuine ignorance before God is a valid excuse. Why else would the mentally handicapped and little children, among others, be saved? From him who is given, much is required. From him who it is not given, less is required.

Even the things you draw exception to; murder, rape, thievery, etc., are looked down upon in the other major faiths as well. Every major faith has as its goal the ascension of its adherents, Christians think in terms of heaven, Buddhists think of nirvana and beyond, Native Americans think of the happy hunting grounds. All of them seek to be closer to their understanding of God.

There are some "religions" that do not teach such things as love of God and neighbor; they are minor, and I am not referring to them. Everyone will have to stand before God at the Great White Throne judgement and answer for themselves, in accord with what they know. At that time, there will be a lot of willfully ignorant (as opposed to genuinely ignorant) Christians too, who did not follow the teachings of Christ, who will be cast aside. "They will say to me, Lord, have we not cast out devils in thy name, and healed the sick, and worked miracles in thy name? And Jesus will say to them, get away from me, I never knew you!"

 

[Conscience]

I can't help but wonder though, if you believe that people of other faiths are not capable of loving God or their neighbors?

Who said I dont think people of other faith cant love? Whoa...are you reading my words, or are you guessing my motives? The point is homie, it doesnt matter if we do good deeds. We're still guilty! Question: If you rob a bank, can all the good things you do make void the fact that you've broken the Law? Of course NOT! The Point of Jesus, and the Bible is that WE'RE GUILTY OF BREAKING GOD'S LAWS! The good works we do cannot take away that fact. We NEED a Savior!

As I have pointed out many times, tolerance is not acceptance. No, we do not have to accept the deed, but we do have to love the person.

I agree! In all that we do, we must LOVE. If we lack love, our preaching is in vain! I think you're mistaking love for tolerance. Yes, we are to LOVE people as we love ouselves. But, we are NOT to tolerate things that go against God's will!

OK, something I see you struggling with is the idea that God made all of humanity. I pointed to Genesis already, the sixth day creation, Adam (without the article), and it was very good. The man Adam, ha-Adam (with the article) was not created until the eighth day. Where else would Cain get a wife when he was exiled? He went to the land of Nod where there were people of the sixth day creation living. He did not marry his sister as some would try to say.

You lost me here. Adam was created on the 6th day according to the Bible. And, Cain, most likely took one of his sisters as a wife. This is my conjecture, by the way - the Bible doesnt specify.

The narrow road is the living and doing of the teachings of Christ. As James said, "be ye doers, and not hearers only." You may be saved by grace (unmerited favor), but your actions are your fruit. People of other faiths are equally capable of bearing fruit in accordance with what they know.

Again, I agree. Its not about goodness. According to the bible, our good deeds are liken to filty rags. WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN. This is the key to entering Heaven.

The teachings of Christ are mirrored pretty doggone well in the other major faiths. Again I point to Romans chapter 2. Those who have not the law by nature do the things contained in the law, it is written in their hearts, -my paraphrase. The word also tells us that a person is not held accountable for the things they do not know. Genuine ignorance before God is a valid excuse. Why else would the mentally handicapped and little children, among others, be saved? From him who is given, much is required. From him who it is not given, less is required.

I see you've confused yourself here. Firstly, the book of Romans tell us that we have NO excuse because God's Laws are written on our hearts. And, while we may not know the Law, we WILL instinitly follow it. This is what the message says. You might want to read it agian. About little children and mentally ill people, yes they are pardoned because of ignorance. Though they are sinners just like everyone else (including me), they are unable to know right from wrong, and understand the consequences of their actions.

Even the things you draw exception to; murder, rape, thievery, etc., are looked down upon in the other major faiths as well. Every major faith has as its goal the ascension of its adherents, Christians think in terms of heaven, Buddhists think of nirvana and beyond, Native Americans think of the happy hunting grounds. All of them seek to be closer to God.

I dont adhear to any specific religion. I am only interested in truth. Once a man named Yeshua came, and claimed to be the incarate of truth. Since then, he has become the most influential figure to ever live. In my 2 years of knowing him, I have to agree with him - he is Truth!

There are some "religions" that do not teach such things as love of God and neighbor; they are minor, and I am not referring to them. Everyone will have to stand before God at the Great White Throne judgement and answer for themselves, in accord with what they know. At that time, there will be a lot of willfully ignorant (as opposed to genuinely ignorant) Christians too, who did not follow the teachings of Christ, who will be cast aside. "They will say to me, Lord, have we not cast out devils in thy name, and healed the sick, and worked miracles in thy name? And Jesus will say to them, get away from me, I never knew you!"


I agree. To prevent that, we better do as the bible says - Make Sure we're in the faith. We NEED to be sure that we have a real relationship with Jesus!

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Conscience!

Who said I dont think people of other faith cant love? Whoa...are you reading my words, or are you guessing my motives?

Neither, I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

The point is homie,

*Puts moderator hat on* Ahem, I am thinking you are just a little zealous, which there is nothing wrong with. But name calling, like "homie," is not acceptable. Please refrain. *removes moderator hat*

it doesnt matter if we do good deeds. We're still guilty! Question: If you rob a bank, can all the good things you do make void the fact that you've broken the Law? Of course NOT! The Point of Jesus, and the Bible is that WE'RE GUILTY OF BREAKING GOD'S LAWS! The good works we do cannot take away that fact. We NEED a Savior![/b]

Which tells me you missed the point. May I remind that you pointed out, correctly, that Jesus (Yahshua, salvation is of Yah; Joshua in english) gave us two laws that fulfill the ten. The ten were not done away with, following the two correctly fulfills the ten. "I have not come to do away with the law, I have come to fulfill it." So, of course if you break the law, there is a penalty, whether you pray for forgiveness or not. Paul put it well, "For sin shall not have dominion over you; for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness." Romans 6:14-16 KJV

"sin for of you not shall lord it over, not for you are under law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because not we are under law, but under grace? Not let it be! not Know you that to whom you yield yourselves slaves for obedience, slaves you are to whom you obey, whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?" Interlinear

I think you are mistaking love for tolerance. Yes, we are to LOVE people as we love ouselves. But, we are NOT to tolerate things that go against God's will![/b]

No, I am not mistaking love for tolerance. These are two separate issues altogether. One can love and not tolerate. One can tolerate and still not love. But one manifestation of love is tolerance. Love is patient and long suffering, Paul tells us.

You lost me here. Adam was created on the 6th day according to the Bible. And, Cain, most likely took one of his sisters as a wife. This is my conjecture, by the way - the Bible doesnt specify.[/b]

There are threads here that deal with this. It is an involved study I do not have time for now. BTW, are you aware of the source of the "marrying his sister" tales? It might do well to look up the myths concerning Lillith. Be assured, I do not agree with them.

Again, I agree. Its not about goodness. According to the bible, our good deeds are liken to filty rags. WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN. This is the key to entering Heaven.[/b]

The phrase, born again, is more properly translated "born from above." I see you disregard the teaching of James, the brother of Jesus, who grew up in the same home by the same parents, who was no doubt taught intimately things even the apostles never learned, as only brothers can do for each other. The same James who was the spiritual leader of the church in Jerusalem, likely the closest to the real McCoy that Christ actually intended.

I see you've confused yourself here. Firstly, the book of Romans tell us that we have NO excuse because God's Laws are written on our hearts. And, while we may not know the Law, we WILL instinitly follow it. This is what the message says. You might want to read it agian. About little children and mentally ill people, yes they are pardoned because of ignorance. Though they are sinners just like everyone else (including me), they are unable to know right from wrong, and understand the consequences of their actions.[/b]

How certain you seem to be! You've been a Christian how long? Two years? Good for you! I've been a serious Christian for over 25 years. I have read the verse, many many many times. In many translations. You might want to go back and re-read it yourself, rightly dividing the word by the Holy Spirit.

I dont adhear to any specific religion.

You sure argue pretty vehemently from the religion of Christianity.

I am only interested in truth.

Good for you! So am I.

Once a man named Yeshua came, and claimed to be the incarate of truth. Since then, he has become the most influential figure to ever live. In my 2 years of knowing him, I have to agree with him - he is Truth![/b]

Yes, he brought teachings of truth, to a certain group of people. And others, beginning with Paul, carried these teachings out to the nations, the gentiles, the goyim.

I agree. To prevent that, we better do as the bible says - Make Sure we're in the faith. We NEED to be sure that we have a real relationship with Jesus![/b]

Christians do, I agree. That relationship is to learn, know, feel, be and DO what Jesus taught. Simple belief is not enough.

 

[juantoo3]

I think you are mistaking love for tolerance. Yes, we are to LOVE people as we love ouselves. But, we are NOT to tolerate things that go against God's will![/b]

No, I am not mistaking love for tolerance. These are two separate issues altogether. One can love and not tolerate. One can tolerate and still not love. But one manifestation of love is tolerance. Love is patient and long suffering, Paul tells us.

I neglected something important: The difference between tolerating actions (deed, in the sense of having done, extention of DO) and tolerating people. People MUST be tolerated, including all that makes them a people, culturally, religiously, linguistically, etc. The reprehensible actions of specific individuals is another thing altogether. A murderer is not to be suffered loose in society, irrespective of "his" race, faith, creed or religious beliefs. In that, dear friend, you are confusing tolerance with acceptance. One must tolerate beliefs one doesn't agree with, one does not need to accept those beliefs. If you had read my posts, that would be very plainly evident.

 

[Conscience]

Neither, I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

If you're not reading what I say, how are you going to understand where Im coming from?

*Puts moderator hat on* Ahem, I am thinking you are just a little zealous, which there is nothing wrong with. But name calling, like "homie," is not acceptable. Please refrain. *removes moderator hat*

While the moderator hat is off, I'd like to ask you to put on you thinking hat, and think about this for a second. The word "homie" isnt a disrespectful word. Rather, it is a popular vanacular used today, which could be interpreted as "man," or "dude." So, in essence what I said before was - "the point is man [homie]." Get it?

Which tells me you missed the point. May I remind that you pointed out, correctly, that Jesus (Yahshua, salvation is of Yah; Joshua in english) gave us two laws that fulfill the ten. The ten were not done away with, following the two correctly fulfills the ten. "I have not come to do away with the law, I have come to fulfill it." So, of course if you break the law, there is a penalty, whether you pray for forgiveness or not. Paul put it well, "For sin shall not have dominion over you; for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness." Romans 6:14-16 KJV

Im not getting your point. Jesus gave said that the 2 most important laws are LOVE. First Love God, and then Love man as yourself. Yet, the Bible is very clear that NONE has kept the Law. If you've broken the Law even once, you're still in debted to the Law. Likewise, if you've commited ONE sin, you still have to pay the price of sin, which is death and eternal seperation away from God. Jesus, who is the fulfillment of the Law, died so that we wont have to pay the price of the Law. He already paid it. What are you not getting about this truth?

No, I am not mistaking love for tolerance. These are two separate issues altogether. One can love and not tolerate. One can tolerate and still not love. But one manifestation of love is tolerance. Love is patient and long suffering, Paul tells us.

I agree with this! And, as you said so elequently - "one of the manifestations of love is tolerance." But again, we can love and tolerate anything, just as long as it doesnt go against God's will. He is the one we need worry about first and foremost!

There are threads here that deal with this. It is an involved study I do not have time for now. BTW, are you aware of the source of the "marrying his sister" tales? It might do well to look up the myths concerning Lillith. Be assured, I do not agree with them.

Again, you lost me. Im not in the business of studying spurious conjecture, but instead am interested only in truth. God's words said that Adam was created on the 6th day, and thats all I need to know.

The phrase, born again, is more properly translated "born from above." I see you disregard the teaching of James, the brother of Jesus, who grew up in the same home by the same parents, who was no doubt taught intimately things even the apostles never learned, as only brothers can do for each other. The same James who was the spiritual leader of the church in Jerusalem, likely the closest to the real McCoy that Christ actually intended.

I dont get your point. And, wasnt James a unbeliever until Jesus rose? That said, the Bible says that born again happens when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Is this what you're disagreeing with?

How certain you seem to be! You've been a Christian how long? Two years? Good for you! I've been a serious Christian for over 25 years. I have read the verse, many many many times. In many translations. You might want to go back and re-read it yourself, rightly dividing the word by the Holy Spirit.

LOL...Funny! So you've been a Christian for 25 years, huh? OK, great! I got an idea...lets do this: Lets put the scripture up here again, and we can discuss it. With my 2 years of knowing the Lord, I wish to show you where for 25 years, you've been mistaken.

You sure argue pretty vehemently from the religion of Christianity.

Nope. I talk about Christ, and Biblical truth, not a religion. You may have the 2 mixed up? After reading your thoughts, Im reminded of a Larry King show I saw reciently. On the show he had a Cartholic priest, and a Prostant Christian. The prostant said that Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven, but the Priest denied it. In a way, he reminds me of you in that he advocates all religions as ways to God. Is this what you think?

Good for you! So am I.

Great! Now, let us do as the Bible suggest - "Come let us reason to see what is true."

Yes, he brought teachings of truth, to a certain group of people. And others, beginning with Paul, carried these teachings out to the nations, the gentiles, the goyim.

Jesus didnt just "bring the teachings of truth," he died in place of a sinful world. In 25 years of reading the Bible, you didnt see this?

Christians do, I agree. That relationship is to learn, know, feel, be and DO what Jesus taught. Simple belief is not enough.

Definitly! I totally agree with ya!