Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
They are? What do the scriptures say is the true religion of Jesus?precept said:
If it's so clear, it shouldn't be any trouble pointing it out.
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If it's so clear, it shouldn't be any trouble pointing it out.
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precept
Guest
Abogado del Diablo said:
Fact is; I know I can do better than the scriptures in pointing out "the true religion of Jesus"
It is no secret that Jesus came to earth to point humanity to the true worship of Himself, our God our Creator.
precept
lunamoth
Episcopalian
peace,
lunamoth
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precept
Guest
precept said:
I had to get everyone agreeing to the above before I could continue.
Jesus became our PERFECT EXAMPLE of true worship of Himself, our Lord, our God, our Creator.
We will therefore follow without fail every act of worship He practiced while human; which if we do, we can't but worship as He worshipped; thus worshipping Him as He desires to be worshipped.
When He was born human his mother took him to the Temple to be blessed.[Luke 2:21-24] She did not take him to the Parthenon in Greece or to the Temple of the Eygptian Kings. Nor did she take him to the Pagan Roman Temple of Isis or Jupiter--she took Him Jesus to the Temple in Jerusalem; which makes any in Judaaism who would practice Jesus' religion,also take their infants at birth to the temple in Jerusalem to be blessed.
What is more important, however, is that Jesus gave credence and approbation to the practice of offering up sacrifices as was the practice in Judaism at the time of His birth. He also by appearing in His mother's arms; her with her "two turtledoves" as offering for her son to be blessed by the priest of Judaism. By this Jesus gave His approval to the ecclesiastical responsibility of the religios leaders of Judaism.
If we are then to follow Jesus' example as to how to worship Him; we must out of necessity look to the religion of Judaism. But let us suppose that Jesus had no control over what His earthly parents chose for their religion; He wouild thus choose His own way of worshipping His Father, on His becoming an adult; and this He did as recorded in Luke 4:16 "....and as His custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day". This was an ongoing, usual, customary practice of Jesus as verse 15 of Luke 4 attests... Jesus was always in the synagogues which only opened on the sabbath day; and always teaching his fellow sabbathkeeping Jews.
Jesus did not go to the Parthenon, nor to the Temple of Diana, nor to the Temple of Ra or the Temple of Jupiter to teach. He only taught in the Temple in Jerusalem and only on the sabbath day when He attended synagogue.
If the priests in the Temple of Diana enquired after the religion of the Jewish Messiah they would be told that the religion of the Jewish Messiah IS JUDAISM. If these priests decided to go to Jerusalem on the seventh day and they wanted to hear Jesus teach, they only had to go to the Jewish synagogue and there they would hear the Creator of the unverse Himself teaching humanity on the seventh day--the day He called His own in Genesis 2:1-3....If therefore any of the priests from the Temple of Diana chose to follow the Creator of the universe and worship as He worshipped...their only choice would be to be baptized into Judaism. They would also go to synagogue on the seventh day sabbath and while in the syangogue they would listen with rapt attention as Jesus, God Himself read from the book of Isaiah[Luke 4:17-21] the very words He gave Isaiah to write as His holy scriptures The now coverted pagan priest is now a true covert of Jesus following his Master's example and worshipping His Master every sabbath day in the synagogues of Jews.
The now converted pagan priest aalso noticed that Jesus always had twelve other Jewish men with Him everywhere Jesus went. He was later told that these twelve Jewish men who also faithfully attended synagogue on the sabbath day were specially handpicked by the Messiah Himself....and that they they like the Messiah were devout Jews who always worshipped Jesus God on the sabbath day.
One day the pagan priest listened to Jesus teach that the religious leaders of the Jews were blind and that the people who went to synagogue and who followed the teachings of the religious leaders; that they were also blind. The pagan priest then thought that Jesus was abandoning His Jewish religion; but observed that He still attended and taught as He was accustomed on the sabbath day; and in the synagogues. He also observed that although Jesus did not accept the teachings of the Jewish religious leaders; that Jesus still accepted that the Temple, completely run by these false religious leaders was His "Father's House". This despite saying that the religious leaders and those their followers were worshipping Him in vain; and teaching doctrines that were of human origins and not of God.[Matthew 15:9]
Which brings us to the disciples of Jesus who continued to be devout Jews; still practicing Judaism after their Master, who also practiced Judaism, had returned to heaven. These disciples were now singled out as devout Jews who followed the arch-enemy of the ecclesiastical leadership of Judaism. They were then dubbed the name Christian a derisive name given to Jews who had given their allegiance to the "imposter Jewish Messiah". This did not phase Jesus' twelve disciples who still continued in their Jewish traditions despite the ridicule endured at the hands of their fellow Jews of established Judaism.
The pagan priest, now turned Christian followed the disciples' teaching that they had learned from listening to Jesus So in the synagogues every sabbath he would learn the true teachings of Jesus as each disciple recounted the words as taught by Jesus. The pagan priest turned Christian, heard of Peter's going to the house of the gentile Cornelius; but he also heard that Peter almost did not go into Cornelius' house on account of Peter's still practicing the Jewish commandment "not to go into the house of Gentiles".
The Pagan priest now turned Christian, began to now recognized that the Religion of Jesus transcended the teaching methods used by the religious leaders of Judaism to teach Judaism...and that it was how Jesus Himself taught His religion of Judaism that made His way of teaching His religion, true. This was also true for Jesus' twelve disciples...it was how they continued to teach as their Master taught the religion of Judaism that the Christian way of teaching Judaism, became the true religion of Jesus.
Paul, another of the false Jewish leaders, who later converted to the Christian way of teaching Judaism; also taught in the Jewish synagogues in Asia and western Europe. He taught also in the synagogues on the sabbath day; but unlike his Jewish counterparts in Jerusalem, he taught the Gentiles that they being Gentiles need not adhere to Jewish customs. They need only choose to follow the teachings of Jesus if they desired salvation. The gentile converts to Judaism then attended synagogue as Paul and the twelve disciples of Jesus; and also as Jesus did every sabbath day, to listen to the teachings of Jesus as taught by Jesus' twelve disciples; and Jesus' apostle, Paul.
It is important to note that while Jesus was on earth; and despite being accused by the Jewish leadership of not following the Jewish laws; and which was a true accusation; otherwise Jesus would have been as false as those he proclaimed false...that never did he abandon His custom of worshipping His God on the sabbath day....and also neither did His twelve disciples abandon worshipping Hinon the sabbath day, even after Jesus had returned to heaven.
An account of how important Jewish laws and customs were followed by Jesus' twelve disciples is found in Acts chapter 21:20-22...The disciples said to Paul on Paul's return to Jerusalem.."...Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jesus there are which believe;AND THEY ARE ALL ZEALOUS OF THE LAW"[meaning that the disciples as well as these Jews converted to Chritianity were still following the religion of Jesus, Judaism.]"...and they are informed of thee that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles TO FORSAKE MOSES......What is it therefore? The multitude must needs come together[a riot is now brewing]for they will hear that thou art come. They then instructed Paul to identify with Jewish customs and practice one of the Jewish rituals; which after accomplishing, Paul would go to the Temple and present himself to the a priest....with a view that "all may know that that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; BUT THAT THOU THYSELF ALSO WALKEST ORDERLY, AND KEEPEST THE LAW".Verse 24.
Not even one "hot under the collar" can deny that the religion of Jesus as practiced by Jesus and Jesus' twelve disciples and the apostle Paul was the religion of Judaism with its customs and traditions as would be allowed; but as would not contravene the religion of Judaism as taught by Jesus.
precept
Scarlet Pimpernel
demned elusive
Okay; let's try again.
If there's any chance of getting this thread back on to the original track, I'd like to try. I am trying to ignore any unhelpful or goading comments from anyone in this thread because I know it is neither my task here nor within my abilities in general to change someone's mind or behaviour. I think these are some really interesting questions, and I find Catholicism fascinating in its complexity, and I appreciate the way it takes questions seriously and really tries to find answers. So, Q and any other Catholics out there, do you have any comments on these questions?
precept said:
If there's any chance of getting this thread back on to the original track, I'd like to try. I am trying to ignore any unhelpful or goading comments from anyone in this thread because I know it is neither my task here nor within my abilities in general to change someone's mind or behaviour. I think these are some really interesting questions, and I find Catholicism fascinating in its complexity, and I appreciate the way it takes questions seriously and really tries to find answers. So, Q and any other Catholics out there, do you have any comments on these questions?
precept -
If you want to argue that Christianity lost a focus on traditions within Judaism, then that's fine - but please note that this thread about Popes is on the Christianity board, and as such it is somewhat disrespectful if you are claiming that Christians should all be Jews or be damned.
Please try and keep your comments to an appropriate area - if you want to argue for Christianity being rightfully a sect within Judaism, that should return to Judaic roots, then you may find it better to make such an argument in the Judaism section - where the relationship between Judaism and Christianity can be more properly discussed within the framework of Jewish reference and terminology.
This is not a request - and as this thread seems to have run something of a course I'll close this, and encourage any specific discussions on the Papacy to be raised in their own thread on the appropriate board.
If you want to argue that Christianity lost a focus on traditions within Judaism, then that's fine - but please note that this thread about Popes is on the Christianity board, and as such it is somewhat disrespectful if you are claiming that Christians should all be Jews or be damned.
Please try and keep your comments to an appropriate area - if you want to argue for Christianity being rightfully a sect within Judaism, that should return to Judaic roots, then you may find it better to make such an argument in the Judaism section - where the relationship between Judaism and Christianity can be more properly discussed within the framework of Jewish reference and terminology.
This is not a request - and as this thread seems to have run something of a course I'll close this, and encourage any specific discussions on the Papacy to be raised in their own thread on the appropriate board.
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