Kind Regards, precept!
precept said:
"Juantoo" if the matter of salvation was left up to us human; then only those according to our "subjective individual religious understanding of scripture" would have a chance to be saved.
Yet, you do realize, each of us who sincerely follows the teachings of Christ, does so by "subjective individual religious understanding of scripture?" No two believers believe in identical ways. Is only one, or possibly even none if even that person is mistaken, to be saved? Is your way the only way? How do you know?
Salvation; according to scripture is entirely defined by God and only by God can salvation be defined.This means that any other defintion other than as defined by God, is sinful.
For Christians, I can agree to a point. but how do you
know, beyond any shadow of doubt, that your interpretation of God's definition is the correct one? Or that any others are incorrect? And what of those who are not Christians, who diligently follow another path God has given them? Or are all peoples damned automatically, and Christians just happen to, by some stroke of fate or happy chance of winning the lottery, the only ones to be saved?
The Christian church which was began by Jesus Himself and introduced to humanity tnrough His handpicked disciples cannot introduce a different gospel than that introduced by Christ and His disciples.
I would be willing to bet that even in your own personal tradition, there are elements that were not taught by Christ, but instead were added at a later date by religious authority. So, because your tradition includes
any non-Christian elements, are you therefore damned?
Such then is not as you put it a matter for forgiveness. There is no merit in forgiving a sin that was introduced by false represntatives of the True.
Perhaps, yet in the
spirit of forgiveness one can overlook things which are not the direct fault of the individual in question. Can I take exception to doctrine and authority? Certainly, and I do. Can I take exception to an individual, particularly one who hasn't got a clue? No, I do not think that is what Jesus had in mind. A live dog is better than a dead lion, Solomon tells us. A person who lives the teachings of Christ, regardless of their indoctrination, is far better than a person of a specific doctrine who does not live their life as Jesus taught. It is not what we know. It is what we do with what we know, that gains us entry to heaven.
The True representatives of Christ, including Christ Himself, and complete with the entire scriptures of God's commandments to humanity, is complete! Replete with how humanity MUST SERVE GOD! And any deviation from these explicit instructions by any group, catholic or protestant, must be presented for what it is, the work of God's archenemy, the devil.
The true representatives of Christ are those who do what he taught, Catholic or Protestant, or Hare Krishna for that matter. Those who teach hatred do the work of God's archenemy. There is a time and place for righteous indignation, this is neither the time nor place.
Those who represent God's salvation, cannot but represent His salvation the way He chooses to represent same.
Indeed! So, how do you know you are correctly representing salvation the way God intended?
God's true church that existed from the time of Adam through Abraham, never at any time misunderstood God's salvific plan. So important is God's salvific plan that even Abraham is quoted as one who "believed His plan" and those of us who also "beleive His plan" are like "faithful Abraham".
I am not going to make any attempt here to justify war, but I will point out that even early in the monotheism of the Bible, war was sometimes sanctioned and even dealt by God. So, were these men we now consider righteous representatives of faith in God "representing God's desires in the atrocities of the past?" This would include Abraham, you know? Abraham conducted a military raid to rescue Lot. So, by your account, Abraham "had no understanding of the true gospel of salvation...and thinking (he was) doing God's bidding, (he) made God's Gospel of salvation (his) own imagining," effectively founding all monotheistic religions on false basis? That would even include your interpretation of Christianity, you know. Condemning yourself by your own words and beliefs? "With what measure ye mete..."
If the false representatives of the true had "beleived His plan" they, like "faithful Abraham" who pre-eisted them by more than four thousands of years, would have fully understood God's salvific plan as Abraham did.
Perhaps, but you know, you are contradicting yourself. Abraham cannot be misled and faithful at the same time. Or can he?
It is for this reason that no amount of recrimination on the part of those who already are in violation of His plan through ignorance of same, has any relevance or redeeming value.
Quite the contrary, one is not held accountable for what they do not know. Thanks be to God for His mercy.
Hence apologizing for actions that were not of, or in any way connected to our God's salvation plan is a consummate waste of time.
Not to those who would otherwise be found guilty, which so far includes you.
Those guilty of the commission of these crimes against God and their fellow humans, together with those who believe in their false representation of God's gospel[their followers aka the churches of their making] have an eternal responsibility to confess their sins to God[not apologize!] ...ask Hisforgiveness;[not forgivness from fellow sinners] repent of their false understanding of God's Gospel of salvation; turn from following these false practices; and follow the True Gospel as plainly outlined by God in His Holy scriptures.
OK, I can go along with a person asking forgiveness once they realize their sin. But holding others accountable for the actions of someone else...nah, I don't get that from Christ's example, nor God's word. Besides, according to you I don't need your forgiveness anyway, since you are but a fellow sinner. But that's OK, I forgive you anyway.
The True gospel of God will be revealed to all true seekers of same....for so God has promised...."And ye shall seek me and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart". Jeremiah 29:13.
Amen. But did you notice, that is not "the gospel according to precept?" In other words, by its very nature it is going to be "subjective individual religious understanding of scripture," whether you care for that fact or not.
Huimanty must not take for granted the work of the arch-deceiver.
Agreed. Sometimes wolves come in sheep's clothing, or in the form of somebody who
knows the truth!
Satan's decption of these, God's people was so complete that God condemned them all-the Israelites, to wandering aroud in a desert for forty years till every last one of them that had originally left Eygpt had died in the wilderness.
Gotta love absolutes, and the people who use them! There was at least one man who entered the Promised Land who had been in Egypt. And he was a military man! So who am I to believe is mistaken here; the Bible, or you?
The descendants of those[the Israelites] denied entry into the "land of promise fared no better than their predecessors---they killed the very God who brought their predecessors out of Eygpt; and did not recognize Him as their God;just as their predecessors before them did not recognize Him as their God at the mout of Sinai when He gave them His ten commandments.
Oh now, see, I bet I can get a whole lot of Jews who would very much disagree with you. Not to mention how many Christians are very likely descended of Hebrew stock through the lost tribes who would disagree with you just as well.
It is not surprising that Satan would be trying his endeavour best to corrupt God's plan of saving humanity by using his, satan's mission of sin Satan even tried to deceive very God, when he tempted Jesus, Very God to worship him, Satan.
The question then is pure and simple....IF SATAN HAS WORKED SO HARD TO THWART GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION FROM ITS IINCEPTION; WOULDN'T HE BE WORKING DOUBLY HARD TO DECEIVE THOSE WHO WOULD CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IN GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION?
On a certain level I can agree with you here. Where I vehemently disagree is your shotgun application, your assumption that devils hide behind every tree and billboard.
"...And Jesus answered...Take heed that no man deceive you....for many shall come in my Name "saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many"..Matthew 24:4-5"
...and many false prophets shall arise and DECEIVE MANY" Matthew 24:11.
Indeed. How can I know you are not one of them?
The above passages are but just a FEW OF THE WARNINGS GIVEN TO TRUE CHRISTIANS, who must be on the look-out for the Counterfeit gospel of satan!
Amen. And since there are too many things in your teachings here that contradict the teachings of Jesus, and the evidence of your fruit does not include love, compassion or forgiveness, then I must conclude you are one of "many false prophets."
Matthew 25:31-46....Makes quite clear that "hellfire" was prepared for the "devil and his angels"; but also will include all who willingly follow the devil or allow themselves to be deceived into following satan in the belief that they are following the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus again makes this fact quite clear when He described the Christians on His left hand in Matthew 7:21-23, as those "christians"on their way to hell!
Uh-huh. I agree. The problem is with interpretation. Yours does not agree with mine. I see Jesus loving people out of their faults, despite their faults. You, on the other hand, seem to believe that everybody else is damned for being on the wrong path for misinterpreting or whatever. Look in the mirror, please. If you find a guiltless person worthy to first cast a stone, get back to me. Until then, I'm gonna stick by my understanding of what Jesus taught.
