Mysticism in The Matrix
- Thread starter MalcomRazor
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Interesting thoughts:
In God, there is neither light nor dark, nor are there 'forms', so that layout and content of the Garden are there as sensible symbols, accessible to the human mind, as supports and comforts – that we have not lost this entirely is amply evident in a 'romance' response to nature: to gaze in awe at the stars, to watch a sunset, to wonder at ... it's all Maya, yes, but for those with eyes to see Maya becomes a symbol and signifier, in that sense not illusory at all, in that everything it says points to its Source and Origin in the 'Infinite Formless' beyond signs and symbols.
I haven't read the book, but from looking around, while Barbour talks of time as an abstract, a construct, I don't see him claiming the non-existence of the universe, rather the rebuttal of a model that makes time an absolute – for him time is relative to the observer?
If Barbour suggests a universe without centre, without periphery, then I'd be more incline4d to look at his physics – that appeals to me, but I'm cautious about reading that onto him. I believe in such a universe, where the 'centre' is everywhere (the symbolism of the Cross speaks of this), but as I say, I'm projecting...
The Demiurge, in Hellenic and Gnostic models, comes a long way down the chain of emanations.
Indeed so, and we still are. Man was created as the union between the spiritual and the organic. Our Primordial Parents were accorded a measure of grace, which was lost as a consequence of disobedience.
In God, there is neither light nor dark, nor are there 'forms', so that layout and content of the Garden are there as sensible symbols, accessible to the human mind, as supports and comforts – that we have not lost this entirely is amply evident in a 'romance' response to nature: to gaze in awe at the stars, to watch a sunset, to wonder at ... it's all Maya, yes, but for those with eyes to see Maya becomes a symbol and signifier, in that sense not illusory at all, in that everything it says points to its Source and Origin in the 'Infinite Formless' beyond signs and symbols.
Can you give more detail?
I haven't read the book, but from looking around, while Barbour talks of time as an abstract, a construct, I don't see him claiming the non-existence of the universe, rather the rebuttal of a model that makes time an absolute – for him time is relative to the observer?
If Barbour suggests a universe without centre, without periphery, then I'd be more incline4d to look at his physics – that appeals to me, but I'm cautious about reading that onto him. I believe in such a universe, where the 'centre' is everywhere (the symbolism of the Cross speaks of this), but as I say, I'm projecting...
No, that's not quite correct – "the architect" bears a stronger resemblance to the Demiurge of Gnostic cosmology. Cherubim are not creators, they are created natures within creation. They are second in the angelic order in Christianity, following the Seraphim.
The Demiurge, in Hellenic and Gnostic models, comes a long way down the chain of emanations.
Ella S.
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I stumbled onto this, I hope I'm not necroposting, but I agree that there is a resemblance between the Architect and the Gnostic Demiurge. I've actually used the Matrix and The Truman Show to help explain Gnostic cosmology to some people that are just dipping their toes into the subject. It helps that Neo acts as a messianic archetype in the movie, so even stronger parallels can be made between him and Christ. The Chosen One and the Anointed One.
It's obviously not a perfect analogue. I think the two biggest struggles in the parallel is that the "real world" in the Matrix still has hostile machines and that the simulated world is frequently referred to as being, in some sense, not real. I don't see the material world as an illusion, but more like a flawed projection of spirit onto a canvas of matter.
I enjoyed the first movie a lot.
Regarding analogies, I find that Agent Smith is the most candid, sincere Gnostic of the whole cast, in that he is the only one who genuinely wants to escape the Matrix, as he asserts to the captured Morpheus towards the end of the movie. Everyone else can't wait to find reasons to enter it again. Only Smith really wants to be out for good with all his heart. (the later movies muddle that bit, of course)
(I love the term "necroposting". Learning something new every day. Thanks!)
@Ella S.
We've had quite a lot of Matrixism recently:
Matrixism - A religion based on The Matrix
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/6106/page-14#post-350953
That's worth thinking about.
The description I liked was it is like someone behind a sheet...the voice is garbled and you can see the shape pushing against it but the. Details are not clear. We are not interpreting reality, but what we can see of reality.
Plato's cave?
But the difference between the Gnostic idea and Plato's is that's while Plato imagines that we have a limited perception of the full spiritual reality, the gnostics believe that the reality we experience is an entirely false one projected by the false god Saklos?
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
Not so much false as alien to our core being. We're not supposed to be in this world; we're estranged from our home in the Pleroma. The Demiurge is the ruler of this foreign land and the one who keeps us trapped within it.
In a lot of Gnostic creation myths, the Kenoma predates the emanation of the Demiurge, so there was a primordial balance that he's upsetting by keeping us here. That doesn't make it a false reality or an illusion.
Some Gnostics do believe that the world is illusory, or will at least call it illusory. Strictly speaking, I think this belief comes from the New Age movement(?) and not Gnosticism itself.
Geo
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The "Hack", (or the result of the Fall), is about this evolved, animal/mammal and organic world and universe, which is not about the fallen Cherubim.
It's about the first man, who was connected with everything on earth, who the chief rebel tempted.
Adam was the same as Jesus, The One linked with the Almighty, but naive to the chief rebel and his intent. Unlike Jesus.
Causing this result.
Again if prophecy is valid in scripture, which it is, then this is the simulation of which the physicists speculate about.
Involving time... or the illusion of it. Wherein we abide.
Temporarily.
The greater reality and truth involves the timeless or eternity. The Spirit.
Question: Do you share the same survival instinct as every other animal on the planet?
Why would you think this organic situation, in time, is the ultimate truth or reality?
It's about the first man, who was connected with everything on earth, who the chief rebel tempted.
Adam was the same as Jesus, The One linked with the Almighty, but naive to the chief rebel and his intent. Unlike Jesus.
Causing this result.
Again if prophecy is valid in scripture, which it is, then this is the simulation of which the physicists speculate about.
Involving time... or the illusion of it. Wherein we abide.
Temporarily.
The greater reality and truth involves the timeless or eternity. The Spirit.
Question: Do you share the same survival instinct as every other animal on the planet?
Why would you think this organic situation, in time, is the ultimate truth or reality?
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Geo
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Also, not sure why people feel that they need to pursue Gnosticism either.
?
Why not simply take the Bible for what it says to us?
This organic dimension (simulation), exists because of the chief rebel's temptation of the first man. Wherein time, with aging and decay, are normal.
Jesus call's him then, "the ruler of this world".
Plain and simple.
Paul calls him, "the god of this age".
It's not the greater reality and truth.
?
Why not simply take the Bible for what it says to us?
This organic dimension (simulation), exists because of the chief rebel's temptation of the first man. Wherein time, with aging and decay, are normal.
Jesus call's him then, "the ruler of this world".
Plain and simple.
Paul calls him, "the god of this age".
It's not the greater reality and truth.
Geo
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Actually, there are similarities that I see if people understand that, "the ruler of this world", is not God Almighty.
Which is what Gnostics have understood the situation to be, I thought.
Except, when I brought this up here, there seemed to be a good amount of flak to it.
And of course, this also explains the reason for the beneficial situations regarding the NDE accounts.
With respect also to, "the sin of the world", (John 1), being this organic experience, in which we find ourselves.
Which is what Gnostics have understood the situation to be, I thought.
Except, when I brought this up here, there seemed to be a good amount of flak to it.
And of course, this also explains the reason for the beneficial situations regarding the NDE accounts.
With respect also to, "the sin of the world", (John 1), being this organic experience, in which we find ourselves.
Ella S.
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Which Bible? There have been a lot of different canonizations over the years, due to there being disagreements over which scriptures (and which version of scriptures) should be included. There's the Lutheran Bible, the Ethiopian Bible, the Catholic Bible, etc. All have different books.
That said, it was a Gnostic who provided the backbone of modern canon, and his name was Marcion. So it's inaccurate to think that the Gnostics don't take what the Bible for what it says to us.
The difference is that Satan is seen as a fallen angel (specifically a cherub thanks to Ezekiel, as you pointed out) in Nicene Christianity.
In Gnostic Christianity, many sects don't have the concept of angels, and instead have Aeons and Archons, which are more comparable to the Zorastrian idea of ahuras and daevas. Most sects don't even call the Demiurge Satan, but a variety of other names, such as Yaldabaoth, Nebro, Saklas, Ariel, Samael, or Abrasax.
Now, I am particularly influenced by the Cathars, and they do consider the Demiurge to be Satan. I think the Bogomils did so, too, if I'm not mistaken, and some Manichaen texts use that name. However, in all of these examples, Yhwh Elohim is still associated with the Demiurge and not considered to be the true God who sent Christ.