Women?
- Thread starter PluckyAli
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Staffy
Allahu Akbar
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Do you need to mock Islam to make a point? please back your claim up with evidence to provide a solid debate.......Otherwise if you havent got anything nice to say kindly direct your energys elsewere...........Staffy
Hello Mansio,mansio said:
Do you need to mock Islam to make a point? please back your claim up with evidence to provide a solid debate.......Otherwise if you havent got anything nice to say kindly direct your energys elsewere...........Staffy
dayaa
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hello/salam all
mansio....i think the purpose of these forums is to discuss and to learn and to bring up ideas and problems.....not to criticize nor to offend. maybe it is not your intention to be offensive, but sometimes the same thing can be said as a question for example rather than a comment thus avoiding offence.
thipps....i also think that in answering potentially offensive comments it shows more decorum to simply request politely that the person concerned refrain from being offensive. if you start answering in a similar tone it all just disintegrates into a slanging match, which is really a bit pointless.
regarding your comment about mohammad (pbuh) being illiterate....from the point of view of a questioner from outside the faith, this is something rather questionable and needs some clarification. i often hear muslim lecturers stressing the fact that mohammad (pbuh) was illiterate and sometimes even making wild claims that he had no access to jewish or christian scriptures (presumably because he could not read)....however this is somewhat misleading and anyone who investigates further will find these comments to be misleading and will wonder about the motives of those who make such rash claims.
mohammad (pbuh) was illiterate.....but that does not mean he was "thick". in the culture of the time most people were illiterate, but they were an intelligent people well versed in poetry and able to memorise and recite vast amounts of information. as many illiterate cultures, people were very "focused" mentally. prophet mohammad (pbuh) also definitely did have access to both jews and christians. i am not trying to suggest that mohammad (pbuh) made up the quran himself, but it seems to me that it would be better to look for the validity of the quran in its meaning rather than stressing its miraculousness because mohammad (pbuh) was illiterate because this is a somewhat debateable point and therefore not convincing to an "outsider".
mansio....i think the purpose of these forums is to discuss and to learn and to bring up ideas and problems.....not to criticize nor to offend. maybe it is not your intention to be offensive, but sometimes the same thing can be said as a question for example rather than a comment thus avoiding offence.
thipps....i also think that in answering potentially offensive comments it shows more decorum to simply request politely that the person concerned refrain from being offensive. if you start answering in a similar tone it all just disintegrates into a slanging match, which is really a bit pointless.
regarding your comment about mohammad (pbuh) being illiterate....from the point of view of a questioner from outside the faith, this is something rather questionable and needs some clarification. i often hear muslim lecturers stressing the fact that mohammad (pbuh) was illiterate and sometimes even making wild claims that he had no access to jewish or christian scriptures (presumably because he could not read)....however this is somewhat misleading and anyone who investigates further will find these comments to be misleading and will wonder about the motives of those who make such rash claims.
mohammad (pbuh) was illiterate.....but that does not mean he was "thick". in the culture of the time most people were illiterate, but they were an intelligent people well versed in poetry and able to memorise and recite vast amounts of information. as many illiterate cultures, people were very "focused" mentally. prophet mohammad (pbuh) also definitely did have access to both jews and christians. i am not trying to suggest that mohammad (pbuh) made up the quran himself, but it seems to me that it would be better to look for the validity of the quran in its meaning rather than stressing its miraculousness because mohammad (pbuh) was illiterate because this is a somewhat debateable point and therefore not convincing to an "outsider".
Irrelevant.Due to breaking of code of conduct.I want you to leave this thread.
It's ok if your replying this but that's irrelevant to thread and that's what the people like mansio are waiting for.
Interfaith forums > Religion, Faith, and Theology > Monotheism > Islam
Are you blind?.This is a interfaith forum as well as islam forum.
Irrelevant.In short this is what you have done
Breaking of Rule of organised discussion.
Breaking of code of conduct
Aggressive criticization.
Making claims without evidence.
Forcing your opinions on everyone.
He was answering it in a polite manner,although irrelevant to thread
See where this irrelevant conversation is going?.It's so easy to start new thread in comparative section.Isn't it?
Irrelevant
I have yet to see any serious attempt to answer my question,that is i was asking which transaltion is correct and why?.What about edip yuksel explanation?.
wa'alaikum salaam,dayaa said:
mansio was sent a PM before i wrote that reply and it was obvious that telling him in private was not helping, so he deserves the answer exactly as it was written in public. This is not the Comparative Religion forum and beaking the Code of Conduct is taken seriously here.
dayaa
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hello/salam
sorry plucky ali.....i forgot all about your original question and got carried away following the thread. yes actually most of it was a bit irrelevant. i'll leave you to get on with the subject now
sorry thipps also....didn't know about the pm (obviously).
mansio...there you are, there was a suggestion for you. take any material that interests you from this thread and start it up again on comparative. that way you can put any points, ask any questions, make any comments for those who are interested without causing offence on the islam board.
sorry plucky ali.....i forgot all about your original question and got carried away following the thread. yes actually most of it was a bit irrelevant. i'll leave you to get on with the subject now
sorry thipps also....didn't know about the pm (obviously).
mansio...there you are, there was a suggestion for you. take any material that interests you from this thread and start it up again on comparative. that way you can put any points, ask any questions, make any comments for those who are interested without causing offence on the islam board.
Salaam,
Staffy,thipps,and dayaa thank you for your relevant answers.You people or non-muslims who have any question regarding women in islam can continue on this thread with respect and peace.
no no,You can talk everything relating to women here.But i have a prob when someone starts asking about the authority of quran and some people start replying them,and some other people start telling them how to answer,it's more like a comical scence for me.I don't have anytime to spend on this thread,i have a flight today.I will rarely come here now.I started this thread because someone asked me about the rights of women in islam and quoted this verse.And I believe the rights of women are very clear in 4:19.
Staffy,thipps,and dayaa thank you for your relevant answers.You people or non-muslims who have any question regarding women in islam can continue on this thread with respect and peace.
Vajradhara
One of Many
Salaam Mansio,
thank you for the post.
with the understanding that the head gear is meant to help one remain modest, i have no particular issues one way or the other.
pardon my use of the term, is not the hijab considered Fard in Islam?
of course.. this is not all that different than the way the Torah is viewed and, of course, some Christians see the Bible in this way as well.
within the Eastern traditions, several of the Sanatana Dharma (Hindu) texts are also viewed as the direct words of God.
as such, this phenomena seems to be confined to religious world views which posit a Creator Deity. thus far, i am unaware of any religious group which views their texts like this without positing a Creator Deity as well.
metta,
~v
thank you for the post.
this is true. however, i would not normally consider the head gear to be anything in particular. it is quite correct that many traditions still employ the use of head gear to indicate certain aspects of their practice. one is reminded of the habits that nuns wear and the skullcaps that Jews wear.mansio said:
with the understanding that the head gear is meant to help one remain modest, i have no particular issues one way or the other.
pardon my use of the term, is not the hijab considered Fard in Islam?
fair enough. however, i would simply point out that classical Arabic is, for non-Arab speakers, not all that clear
of course.. this is not all that different than the way the Torah is viewed and, of course, some Christians see the Bible in this way as well.
within the Eastern traditions, several of the Sanatana Dharma (Hindu) texts are also viewed as the direct words of God.
as such, this phenomena seems to be confined to religious world views which posit a Creator Deity. thus far, i am unaware of any religious group which views their texts like this without positing a Creator Deity as well.
metta,
~v
Vajradhara
One of Many
well... yesPluckyAli said:
more explanation would be good
when you have the time, of course.
metta,
~v
Vajradhara
One of Many
Salaam Mansio,
actually, that is not correct.
you can most certainly be on this section of the forum.
as this is the Islam section, however, purposefully inflamatory remarks made with the intent to incite, are right out.
as are evangelising other faith traditions and so forth.
that does not mean that you cannot ask questions, even difficult questions, to the Muslims here, however, these should be done with tact and decorum.
be clear... the purpose of Comparative Religion is not to have isolated sections where the members don't interact... quite far from it actually. we, and i really mean Brian (the site owner), have purposefully constructed this forum to facilitate communcation between the various religions on this planet.
to do this, there are some rules for each forum. not unreasonable ones, in my view.
as such, be mindful of the nature of the forum and there really shouldn't be any particular issues.
metta,
~v
actually, that is not correct.
you can most certainly be on this section of the forum.
as this is the Islam section, however, purposefully inflamatory remarks made with the intent to incite, are right out.
as are evangelising other faith traditions and so forth.
that does not mean that you cannot ask questions, even difficult questions, to the Muslims here, however, these should be done with tact and decorum.
be clear... the purpose of Comparative Religion is not to have isolated sections where the members don't interact... quite far from it actually. we, and i really mean Brian (the site owner), have purposefully constructed this forum to facilitate communcation between the various religions on this planet.
to do this, there are some rules for each forum. not unreasonable ones, in my view.
as such, be mindful of the nature of the forum and there really shouldn't be any particular issues.
metta,
~v
Hello Vajradhara
There's this guy that says topics have occasionally been beaten to a pulp. I hope not on this board.
We could discuss the meaning of an inflamatory remark.
Someone tells you that in Islam women have an "extremely high position" and have similar rights to their husbands.
I am the one who should have been offended by the words "extremely high position", knowing the situation of women in Muslim countries. I didn't respond to that.
I just said that in Western countries a wife having similar rights is considered a normal position.
The reaction: I was mocking Islam!
There's this guy that says topics have occasionally been beaten to a pulp. I hope not on this board.
We could discuss the meaning of an inflamatory remark.
Someone tells you that in Islam women have an "extremely high position" and have similar rights to their husbands.
I am the one who should have been offended by the words "extremely high position", knowing the situation of women in Muslim countries. I didn't respond to that.
I just said that in Western countries a wife having similar rights is considered a normal position.
The reaction: I was mocking Islam!
dayaa
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mansio, hi
i think, to be honest you know what your intended tone is when you make comments like that. it's surprising actually how much "tone" you can pick up on even in text chat. in case you didn't notice i am muslim female....currently resident in the uk.....home country jordan. don't make too many assumptions about the position of muslim women compared to the situation of western women. i would not be an english woman for all the tea in china, believe me....and that is not intended as an insult to anyone....i have many many english friends. mansio, you are more than welcome here if you just try to have a bit of an open mind to learn about muslim people.....but don't make assumptions until you get to know the people....no-one likes to be stereo-typed.
i think, to be honest you know what your intended tone is when you make comments like that. it's surprising actually how much "tone" you can pick up on even in text chat. in case you didn't notice i am muslim female....currently resident in the uk.....home country jordan. don't make too many assumptions about the position of muslim women compared to the situation of western women. i would not be an english woman for all the tea in china, believe me....and that is not intended as an insult to anyone....i have many many english friends. mansio, you are more than welcome here if you just try to have a bit of an open mind to learn about muslim people.....but don't make assumptions until you get to know the people....no-one likes to be stereo-typed.