would you vote for a jewish or muslim President of the U.S.?

Like I said I don't remember the results...I don't know if this is accurate, but it isn't to pretty.

And that wasn't a Muslim President in charge then, but a Quaker, which probably has had all Quakers shaking their heads ruefully.

Kent State, May 4, 1970: America Kills Its Children
Some rocks had been thrown, and some tear gas canisters fired by the Guard had been hurled back, but (though some of the Guardsmen certainly must know the truth) no-one has ever been able to establish why the Guard fired when they were seconds away from safety around the corner of the building. None had been injured worse than a minor bruise, no demonstrators were armed, there was simply nothing threatening them that justified an armed and murderous response. In addition to the demonstrators, none of whom was closer than sixty feet, the campus was full of onlookers and students on their way to class; two of the four dead fell in this category. Most Guardsmen later testified that they turned and fired because everyone else was. There was an attempt to blame a mysterious sniper, of whom no trace was ever found; there was no evidence, on the ground, on still photographs or a film, of a shot fired by anyone but the Guardsmen. One officer is seen in many of the photographs, out in front, pointing a pistol; one possibility is that he fired first, causing the others, ahead of him, to turn and fire. Or (as some witnesses testified) he or another officer may have given an order to fire. It is indisputable that the Guardsmen were not in any immediate physical danger when they fired; the crowd was not pursuing them; they were seconds away from being out of sight of the demonstration.

There was also an undercover FBI informant, Terry Norman, carrying a gun on the field that day. Though he later turned his gun into the police, who announced it had not been fired, later ballistic tests by the FBI showed that it had been fired since it was last cleaned-- but by then it was too late to determine whether it had been fired before or on May 4th.

It would be too charitable to say that the investigation was botched; there was no investigation. Even the New York City police, who are themselves prone to brutality and corruption, do a better job. Every time an officer discharges his weapon, it is taken from him, and there is an investigation. Here--to the fatal detriment of the federal criminal trial which followed--it was never conclusively established which Guardsmen had fired, or which of them had shot the wounded and the dead. Since all were wearing gas masks, it is impossible to identify them in pictures (many had also removed or covered their name tags, a classic ploy of law enforcement officers about to commit brutality in the '60's and '70's), and though many confessed to having fired their weapons, none admitted to being in the first row and therefore, among the first to fire. The ballistic evidence could have helped here, but none was taken.

One rumor has it that the Guardsmen were told the same night that they would never be prosecuted by the state of Ohio. And they never were. The Nixon administration stalled for years, announcing "investigations" that led nowhere; White House tapes subsequently released show that Nixon thought demonstrators were bums, asked the Secret Service to go beat them up, and apparently felt that the Kent State victims had it coming. As did most of the country; William Gordon calls the killings "the most popular murders ever committed in the United States."

The history of the next few years is very sad. A federal prosecution was finally brought, but the presiding judge is said to have signalled his preference for the defendants, guiding their attorney's conduct of the case to help them avoid legal errors. He dismissed all charges at the close of the prosecution's case, avoiding the need for a defense and taking the case away from the jury. Among his reasons: a failure to prove specific intent to deprive the victims of their civil rights; due to the lack of any investigation, it was almost impossible at this late date to show which Guardsmen shot which victim.

In the New York City police force, which is far from perfect, officers who have killed or injured someone under questionable circumstances are often dismissed from the force even though there is not enough evidence for a criminal conviction; the standard of proof is not the same for an administrative action as for a criminal case. You don't want an unstable, sadistic person on the force, even though there may not be enough evidence for a criminal conviction. But the Guardsmen--even the one who confessed to shooting an unarmed demonstrator giving him the finger--were not deemed unfit to serve the State, even though they had fired indiscriminately into a crowd containing many passsersby and students on their way to classes.

A civil suit brought by the wounded students and the parents of the dead ones deteriorated among infighting by the plaintiffs' lawyers. Unable to agree on a single theory of the case, they contradicted each other. The jury returned a verdict for the defendants.
This verdict was overturned on appeal--the main ground was that the judge did not take seriously enough the attempted coercion of a juror who was assaulted by a stranger demanding an unspecified verdict--and a retrial was scheduled. On the eve of it, the exhausted plaintiffs settled with the state for $675,000.00, which was divided 13 ways. Half of it went to Dean Kahler, the most seriously wounded survivor, and only $15,000 apiece went to the families of each of the slain students, a pathetically small verdict in a day when lives are accounted to be worth in the many millions of dollars. The state issued a statement of "regret" which stopped short of an apology for the events of May 4th, nine years before.
 
Not to most people Jean :/

Can you understand why though? Imagine.... A muslim president comes in... Then says ok I wish to change this nation to my faith... (Which he SHOULD do, if he is a "good" muslim....) Sharia law? Would you be happy with your world being turned into a complete backwards and primitive land?

Or say it was a jew. You like you're bacon and eggs Jean? (not sure what religion you are) Say he says... Ok no more pig import/export.... That's it! Or something along these lines.....

Yar'know?
 
Not to most people Jean :/

Can you understand why though? Imagine.... A muslim president comes in... Then says ok I wish to change this nation to my faith... (Which he SHOULD do, if he is a "good" muslim....) Sharia law? Would you be happy with your world being turned into a complete backwards and primitive land?

Or say it was a jew. You like you're bacon and eggs Jean? (not sure what religion you are) Say he says... Ok no more pig import/export.... That's it! Or something along these lines.....

Yar'know?

Take your point however, The President has to gain approval of the senate I thought and as a vegan I wont be worrying about ham and eggs.
 
Well, that was obviously just an example, OK then perhaps you like going out to do something on saturdays or out late night fridays partying or something! lol and the president forces shabbos upon the nation....

You know it's just an idea, and I have no idea about politics and goverment stuff so take your word on approval of the senate... But, even with that people instantly think these kind of things.... The president is what??? Oh great.... I'll get out my hijab..
 
I defend your right to your view always and the ham and eggs great example. Just my personnal view and no offence intended.
 
Studying Theology,and although very green, like to take the positive views of different faiths on board. Im sure you are right and thankyou
 
That's not really saying much....

Why, is it better to be argumentative do you mean? Do I stand accused of being friendly?

I don't know one person he doesn't like or hasn't got on with in a passive friendly manner..

I thought you were more perceptive than that. I've been accused of being "snippy" before now. What about those I don't interact with, do you assume I concur with those opinions, assertions and attitudes?

s.
 
I don't think that a Muslim has a snowball's chance in hell of being elected President. Not in the next...while. Would I vote for a Muslim? It depends on the person really. They would have a steeper hill to climb to measure up for me, I'll admit that. I already voted for a Jew for vice president. In retrospect I feel a little iffy about that choice. AIPAC and the enormous influence of Israel in American politics is troubling. There again I guess it would depend on the person. I would not vote for a Mormon or a Moonie or a born again anything.

Chris
 
According to the far-right nut-jobs*, we already have. ;)










*You know who you are.
And Sharia Law has already been proposed, and considered, as an alternate legal system for Arab Americans who are Muslim...

...so much for the nut jobs...:rolleyes:
 
Why, is it better to be argumentative do you mean? Do I stand accused of being friendly?



I thought you were more perceptive than that. I've been accused of being "snippy" before now. What about those I don't interact with, do you assume I concur with those opinions, assertions and attitudes?

s.

YES! You stand charged of the crime of being friendly... How will thou plead?

I am sorry I let down your expectations of perception! :O Assumption is always best, I wouldn't assume you concur, But I would assume that you have the respect and control to step back, say nothing, smile or something else along these lines....

Snoopy? Snoopy snippy? I've never noticed this....
 
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