What about Hell...

[Bandit]

Though God is a merciful God, He is also a Just God, and no good judge lets the guilty go free of punishment. Or else He would have no business being a judge.

God made no mistake that He will judge man...there is no easy out.

v/r

Q

hey Q

i think there is a judment & there is a punishment also. but i am also seeing that the unrepented/ unbeliever/ wicked is destroyed. (perhaps after the final judgment?)

what do you think about that one verse Q, where Jesus said to fear him that is able to destroy both the body & soul (in hell)?
i am paraphrasing, but would like to hear what you & the others see in that.

it seems to me, if God can make, he would be able un-make it also?

 

[lunamoth]

Well, what if the afterlife is more like a gathering by God, gathering back what is His. As we go through this life we can take the gifts He's given us and nurture them, expand upon them, use and strengthen them, or we can let them wither and die. At the end that part of us that is God's shall return to Him, it could be a lot or it might be just a little. Our sin and rebellion are what get cast into the fire. The hell of judgement could very well be total clarity of what we did and what we could have done, yet did not.

Acknowledging the source of those gifts and having God and Jesus and the Spirit in our lives during this lifetime is the everlasting life. Obviously you need to believe that to be refreshed by His waters in this life. You need to stand in the sun to feel the warmth of the light. But, unlike the common metaphor in which the pastor holds out the dollar and tells you to go ahead and take it, it's yours, it's free, but it's only yours when you actually accept it, God never puts the bill back in His pocket. He keeps holding it out until you need it, and He never has a smirk on His face when you realize that and take it. He'll be there at the pearly gates still holding it out.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[Proph 1]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word will live forever."

God spoke a word and we became living souls. Our bodies can die, but our soul will live forever and forever. Where the soul lives forever however, depends on if we recieve or deny God's provision for Salvation. If we recieve God's salvation gift of Jesus, we will begin to change; that process is called "born again." If we dont recieve it, we'll be judge by the Law, and the law condemns. The soul that is condemned will go apart from God for all eternity in a place called hell. It should be said that NO bad person will ever go there. If being bad was the mandate for a soul going to hell, we would ALL be there. Again, a soul will only go there if they refuse to accept the truth of what Jesus did, and willingly rely on their own understanding and works. These such will go to the place that was created for Satan and his angels. This dimention existing simontanously juxtaposed with Heaven, according to the Bible is a literal place of undescrible pain and agony. We shouldnt be taking it so likely!

 

[Quahom1]

hey Q

i think there is a judment & there is a punishment also. but i am also seeing that the unrepented/ unbeliever/ wicked is destroyed. (perhaps after the final judgment?)

what do you think about that one verse Q, where Jesus said to fear him that is able to destroy both the body & soul (in hell)?
i am paraphrasing, but would like to hear what you & the others see in that.

it seems to me, if God can make, he would be able un-make it also?

With all due respect to Proph and Luna, I am of the firm opinion that the wrath of God can not be denied. He can wipe us out, and never look back, if we push Him in such a way. I think some of man will push Him in such a way, in time...

v/r

Q

 

[lunamoth]

I believe God could extinguish a soul and I believe God could put a soul in eternal torment, but I can't believe that God would put a soul in eternal torment for even a lifetime's worth of accumulated sins of ommission and commission, with or without the covering blood of Jesus. This lifetime is fleeting, our lights are dimmed by the heaviness and weakness of the flesh. We are born with impediments both physical and mental, environmental and nurture-related, impediments forseen by God. And eternity, well, eternity is a long time. Yes we have free will to turn toward or away from God, yes our lives are largely affected by the beliefs we hold, yes I believe there will be God's judgement, but it will be God's judgement, not the judgement we humans can conceive. I think we are notoriously bad at figuring out what true justice really looks like.

It is my understanding that the concept of an afterlife, much less hell, was not part of the Jewish worldview until almost the time of Jesus. I think about that. All of those commandments to bring the faithful into a righteous relationship with God, keeping all the laws and ceremonies and sacrifices, not for some reward in heaven or to avoid punishment in hell, but for a holy life in their earthly timespan. Interesting, no?

lunamoth

PS In spite of possible appearances, I'm not trying to take the edge off the concept of hell. I quake in my boots at the thought of standing before God with both of us knowing full well every thing I ever did, every word ever said, every thought ever made. But, would a truely just God put Gandhi in hell? And even if Hitler were to go twice through the torment of every victim of his cruel actions, it would not be eternity.

 

[Quahom1]

God allowed fallen angels to be in torment for at least the last 10,000 years? They were the cream of His crop, but they crossed Him. Still think God isn't capable of putting us in our place?...


v/r

Q

 

[Bandit]

With all due respect to Proph and Luna, I am of the firm opinion that the wrath of God can not be denied. He can wipe us out, and never look back, if we push Him in such a way. I think some of man will push Him in such a way, in time...

v/r

Q

that is how i feel too. my dad always says, God is not going to tolerate it because He does not have to tolerate it.

we had an elderly man in our church years ago. i talked with him a couple of times on this & he had so much love in him, that he did not want to see anyone perish not even the devil. but he knew according to the scriptures someone is not written in the Lambs book of life. & he cried & said, "maybe someday we wont know about it, but maybe even the devil will repent & God will forgive him & everyone will be in heaven."...& he just cried.
i think God cries over this too.

but what else is God supposed to do? He promised the ones who love Him a an eternal home with no evil or wickedness to tempt us & torment us with.

sometimes i think this is the kind of love we need to have as in loving our enemies, but not being like them.

God has always had a people who love Him but His people do not love wickedness.
so we have the sheep & the goats.
i want to be a sheep who loves the shephard.

 

[Quahom1]

that is how i feel too. my dad always says, God is not going to tolerate it because He does not have to tolerate it.

we had an elderly man in our church years ago. i talked with him a couple of times on this & he had so much love in him, that he did not want to see anyone perish not even the devil. but he knew according to the scriptures someone is not written in the Lambs book of life. & he cried & said, "maybe someday we wont know about it, but maybe even the devil will repent & God will forgive him & everyone will be in heaven."...& he just cried.
i think God cries over this too.

but what else is God supposed to do? He promised the ones who love Him a an eternal home with no evil or wickedness to tempt us & torment us with.

sometimes i think this is the kind of love we need to have as in loving our enemies, but not being like them.

God has always had a people who love Him but His people not love wickedness.

I think God cries over Lucifer and His lost sons as well. But He will not change His way. He can not change His way...if He did, what would man think?

I know I would begin to question God...and we're supposed to be the apple of His eye...

v/r

Q

 

[Bandit]

I think God cries over Lucifer and His lost sons as well. But He will not change His way. He can not change His way...if He did, what would man think?

I know I would begin to question God...and we're supposed to be the apple of His eye...

v/r

Q

right. i know what you are saying. it is written & God does not lie because it is impossible for Him to lie. His promises to those who (the apple of His eye) love Him are true & they will endure forever & forever.

 

[Proph 1]

I used to believe things like that as well. Because I know that God is love, I used to image him crying when a soul is sent to hell. Yet, after seeing how righteous God is, I've come to know that his wrath is just as strong as his love. And, the being that sins, whether angel or man, God will say to them, "Bond him hand and foot, and cast him into the lake of fire."

God's Holy nature makes him hate sin.

 

[Bandit]

God's Holy nature makes him hate sin.

i dont think anyone here is questioning the wrath of God.

He still loves the sinner clear up to the end.

 

[Quahom1]

...God's Holy nature makes him hate sin.

And man is sin incarnate. Hence our only saving grace is Jesus.

Yep, I can go with that.

v/r

Q

 

[Proph 1]

Yes, God loves sinners, and thats why he died for them. Yet, his love has an end. We all have our whole lives to listen to the Holy Spirit's tug on our heart telling us to come to Jesus and live. If we reject God's love, God wont force it.

 

[Quahom1]

Yes, God loves sinners, and thats why he died for them. Yet, his love has an end. We all have our whole lives to listen to the Holy Spirit's tug on our heart telling us to come to Jesus and live. If we reject God's love, God wont force it.

AHMEN!

 

[mee]

Man, that sucks! If there is no eternal punishent, then God is not a good God. How can he be just if there is no justice? You're basically saying that evil men can do whatever they want in this life, because they'll just cease to exist when they die. So go ahead and sin all you want, you'll just die and cease to exist.

Thats just what Satan wants us to think!

there is justice they will not get everlasting life . evil men will do what they like regardless ,but those who recogonize the ransom sacrifice of Jesus christ will have had a change of heart ,their choice.Adam and Eve were warned what would happen if they broke the rules and God did not go against his rules the same way that people have the choice ,life or death their choice. what a merciful God that he is even going to give those in his memory the chance to change after the resurection on the earth.there are many people who have died never even coming to an accurate knowledge of God. looks like there will be a grand education going on when the resurrection starts ,but without satan the devil around to mess things up

 

[mee]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word will live forever."

God spoke a word and we became living souls. Our bodies can die, but our soul will live forever and forever. Where the soul lives forever however, depends on if we recieve or deny God's provision for Salvation. If we recieve God's salvation gift of Jesus, we will begin to change; that process is called "born again." If we dont recieve it, we'll be judge by the Law, and the law condemns. The soul that is condemned will go apart from God for all eternity in a place called hell. It should be said that NO bad person will ever go there. If being bad was the mandate for a soul going to hell, we would ALL be there. Again, a soul will only go there if they refuse to accept the truth of what Jesus did, and willingly rely on their own understanding and works. These such will go to the place that was created for Satan and his angels. This dimention existing simontanously juxtaposed with Heaven, according to the Bible is a literal place of undescrible pain and agony. We shouldnt be taking it so likely!

yes heaven and earth in the bible , heaven can signify rulership and earth does not always refer to the globe but it can refer to people , example .....the earth was of one language ,that means that the people spoke one languageso it is refering to the people on the earth .the same way that rulership of man will pass away and Gods goverment in the heavens will take over and there will be a new earthly societyof people listening to God for instructions so his word will never pass away

 

[Proph 1]

there is justice they will not get everlasting life . evil men will do what they like regardless ,but those who recogonize the ransom sacrifice of Jesus christ will have had a change of heart ,their choice.

Here's an not so extreme senero: A rich slave owner gets bored of his wife, and begins to rape his female slaves. Not only that, just for fun he rapes the young female children of the slaves, in front of them. This makes him feel powerful, as the slaves can do nothing to stop this evil. One day, after doing things like this for many years, this adultrous, slave owning, child molester, suddenly dies. He lived life as evil as he wanted, because it was "fun" to him. Then, according to you, he just ceases to exist? Tell me Mee, where's the justice? I ask you this because there are real cases of this, even TODAY! Do you HONESTLY believe people can be as evil as they want in this life, and not have some sort of punishment? Do you think that by simply earsing them [evil people] from existence, they will feel any sorrow; moreover anything?

The Fact is, whether you chose to believe it or not, the Bible makes it clear that Hell is a literal place. And because of that, God stood in our place, and paid the price for our sins. It is indeed a great insult to say that hell isnt real. Why? Because, you'd have called God a liar.

 

[Bandit]

Here's an not so extreme senero: A rich slave owner gets bored of his wife, and begins to rape his female slaves. Not only that, just for fun he rapes the young female children of the slaves, in front of them. This makes him feel powerful, as the slaves can do nothing to stop this evil. One day, after doing things like this for many years, this adultrous, slave owning, child molester, suddenly dies. He lived life as evil as he wanted, because it was "fun" to him. Then, according to you, he just ceases to exist? Tell me Mee, where's the justice? I ask you this because there are real cases of this, even TODAY! Do you HONESTLY believe people can be as evil as they want in this life, and not have some sort of punishment? Do you think that by simply earsing them [evil people] from existence, they will feel any sorrow; moreover anything?

The Fact is, whether you chose to believe it or not, the Bible makes it clear that Hell is a literal place. And because of that, God stood in our place, and paid the price for our sins. It is indeed a great insult to say that hell isnt real. Why? Because, you'd have called God a liar.

so. you have called God a liar by saying He died, because God cannot die. so you said an un truth about God. should you be punished for it?

i have a question for you. you did this b4, then you did it again & now you are doing it again.
why do you only have a one track mind & all you ever talk about is sin & hell?? sin sin sin in every post you make.
& if it is not that, you only want controversy from others. you seem to love the controversial things. why?

so far, i do not see much love & i certainly do not see any joy & peace. all i see is condemnation in your speech. that which keeps people as slaves. why?

you also sound as if you cannot wait to see people be punished as if you are the one who does it. it must make you feel good that people get punished for a billion years? why?

why cannot you accept what others believe instead of only trying to convince them that what you believe is the only way to believe??
& you do it it constantly.

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Here's an not so extreme senero: A rich slave owner gets bored of his wife, and begins to rape his female slaves. Not only that, just for fun he rapes the young female children of the slaves, in front of them. This makes him feel powerful, as the slaves can do nothing to stop this evil. One day, after doing things like this for many years, this adultrous, slave owning, child molester, suddenly dies. He lived life as evil as he wanted, because it was "fun" to him. Then, according to you, he just ceases to exist? Tell me Mee, where's the justice? I ask you this because there are real cases of this, even TODAY! Do you HONESTLY believe people can be as evil as they want in this life, and not have some sort of punishment? Do you think that by simply earsing them [evil people] from existence, they will feel any sorrow; moreover anything?

Just because something should be so doesn't mean that it is so. There is certainly evidence here that this man should be punished but no evidence that he will be punished.


Oh and Bandit,

that explains why Jesus is on the throne of God & not Buddah . with this teaching of Buddhists we see a contradiction. Buddhists must not been real, so i do not listen to people who are not real.

Not trying to preach, but just FYI as a buddhist I would say that the people (all living beings) are the only things that are real. And Jesus may be on God's throne, I will accept that, but I believe a Buddha is infinately greater than any God. Bit off topic, like I said, just FYI.

 

[Bandit]

Oh and Bandit,
Not trying to preach, but just FYI as a buddhist I would say that the people (all living beings) are the only things that are real. And Jesus may be on God's throne, I will accept that, but I believe a Buddha is infinately greater than any God. Bit off topic, like I said, just FYI.

well i dont know what to say except that sounds a bit like blasphemey to me.
so i guess we can go to the buddah forum & get off topic & tell the buddhists that God is infinatley greater than any Buddhist. because God most certainly is!

but i wont waste your time with that.