What about Hell...

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Feel free, I only said this is what I personally believe, isnt that what we do here? exchange beliefs?

And sorry for the double post, the connection at work is a bit rubbish. Could someone with the rights delete one of them please.

 

[Bandit]

Feel free, I only said this is what I personally believe, isnt that what we do here? exchange beliefs?

yes. but i think the buddah views about God are supposed to go in the Buddah forum & not the believers in God forum.
i really dont think they would appreciate or tolerate me posting too much of my views about God very long in the buddah forum.
at least that is how i always understood it here.

 

[mee]

so getting back to the subject of hell, (mankinds common grave)will it not be great when death is no more, and the prospect of dieing will never come up again

He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken it."—Isaiah 25:8

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life ....John 3;16

Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment...John 5;28-29..........that judgement will be based not on their past life ,but based on the things they do from then on

Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing ...........1 corinthians 15;24-25 great no more death

And death and Ha´des(hades being the common grave of mankind) were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire......rev 20;14..........there we go destroyed as if by fire . no more death on the earth only everlasting life

 

[Quahom1]

Feel free, I only said this is what I personally believe, isnt that what we do here? exchange beliefs?

And Jesus may be on God's throne, I will accept that, but I believe a Buddha is infinately greater than any God.

Hell o Awaiting. Yes, Ideas, not gut punches. Hell, even on this thread about hell, that was a hell of a thing to say. Not very Buddhist like either.

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[Proph 1]

Mee,

You still didnt answer my question. Here, I'll repost what I said last:

Here's an not so extreme senero: A rich slave owner gets bored of his wife, and begins to rape his female slaves. Not only that, just for fun he rapes the young female children of the slaves, in front of them. This makes him feel powerful, as the slaves can do nothing to stop this evil. One day, after doing things like this for many years, this adultrous, slave owning, child molester, suddenly dies. He lived life as evil as he wanted, because it was "fun" to him. Then, according to you, he just ceases to exist? Tell me Mee, where's the justice? I ask you this because there are real cases of this, even TODAY! Do you HONESTLY believe people can be as evil as they want in this life, and not have some sort of punishment? Do you think that by simply earsing them [evil people] from existence, they will feel any sorrow; moreover anything?
Honestly Mee, what does the Bible say?

 

[Quahom1]

Mee,

You still didnt answer my question. Here, I'll repost what I said last:

Here's an not so extreme senero: A rich slave owner gets bored of his wife, and begins to rape his female slaves. Not only that, just for fun he rapes the young female children of the slaves, in front of them. This makes him feel powerful, as the slaves can do nothing to stop this evil. One day, after doing things like this for many years, this adultrous, slave owning, child molester, suddenly dies. He lived life as evil as he wanted, because it was "fun" to him. Then, according to you, he just ceases to exist? Tell me Mee, where's the justice? I ask you this because there are real cases of this, even TODAY! Do you HONESTLY believe people can be as evil as they want in this life, and not have some sort of punishment? Do you think that by simply earsing them [evil people] from existence, they will feel any sorrow; moreover anything?
Honestly Mee, what does the Bible say?

The Bible doesn't say anything. We don't know what the man's final thoughts were. Only God does. We get angry because there is no human justice, so we assume God will punish. In fact we demand it (not a very smart thing to do).

On the other hand, there is the little old lady from Pasedena, who never physically harmed a soul, but her hatred is formidable. She dies, and we say "What a sweet old woman." God sees things differently.

To assume is folly. Life is not so cut and dry.

BTW, your graphics leave something to be desired...

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[Devadatta]

Acknowledging the source of those gifts and having God and Jesus and the Spirit in our lives during this lifetime is the everlasting life.

This speaks best to the question, at least for me. Some of the other posts appear to be speaking of "eternity" in the popular sense of "a very long time", when in the strict sense eternity is rather a dimension altogether outside of time (see Meister Eckhart, among others). So to think literally of hell or heaven as an endless succession of pains or pleasures is incoherent. The factor of time is integral to everything we might imagine about any possible human experience.

So I would say that, strictly speaking, both hell and heaven are inconceivable, and that the various descriptions of them we find in the tradition are figurative of our wishes, fears and desires for justice and meaning.

Notice that I'm not necessarily saying that hell and heaven don't exist - I'm only saying that they're probably nothing we imagine them to be.

As far as eternity is concerned, as you point out, it's there for the taking.

To see a world in a grain of sand
And heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
William Blake

 

[Quahom1]

This speaks best to the question, at least for me. Some of the other posts appear to be speaking of "eternity" in the popular sense of "a very long time", when in the strict sense eternity is rather a dimension altogether outside of time (see Meister Eckhart, among others). So to think literally of hell or heaven as an endless succession of pains or pleasures is incoherent. The factor of time is integral to everything we might imagine about any possible human experience.

So I would say that, strictly speaking, both hell and heaven are inconceivable, and that the various descriptions of them we find in the tradition are figurative of our wishes, fears and desires for justice and meaning.

Notice that I'm not necessarily saying that hell and heaven don't exist - I'm only saying that they're probably nothing we imagine them to be.

As far as eternity is concerned, as you point out, it's there for the taking.

To see a world in a grain of sand
And heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
William Blake

Time is also a man made construct...

 

[Devadatta]

Time is also a man made construct...

Agreed.

 

[truthseeker]

He lived life as evil as he wanted, because it was "fun" to him. Then, according to you, he just ceases to exist? [...] where's the justice? [...]Do you HONESTLY believe people can be as evil as they want in this life, and not have some sort of punishment? Do you think that by simply [erasing] them [evil people] from existence, they will feel any sorrow; moreover anything?

The Fact is, whether you chose to believe it or not, the Bible makes it clear that Hell is a literal place. And because of that, God stood in our place, and paid the price for our sins. It is indeed a great insult to say that hell isnt real. Why? Because, you'd have called God a liar.

It is our concept of hell that is the problem here - what makes this a discussion.
Could it be that all this condemnation and punishment and the whole bit is a way that man would handle the situation because we are influenced by the evil spirit as well as the Holy Spirit as we are in the flesh? I don't assume God would handle things the way that mankind does. We want to believe so much that we have figured God out and just because we want a man, like the one described, to suffer endlessly, God would be "just" for us and punish, punish, punish.
Why can it not be sufficient for a man of such to be completely erased from existence for us to be satisfied? Completely erased from memory so that he would cease to hurt another being. It is the accuser in us that wants someone like him to be tormented like his slaves were tormented. It is sufficient for a man like that to be thrown in the sea of forgetfullness; it would be our own issue should we keep him alive by refusing to forget him.

 

[Quahom1]

It is our concept of hell that is the problem here - what makes this a discussion.
Could it be that all this condemnation and punishment and the whole bit is a way that man would handle the situation because we are influenced by the evil spirit as well as the Holy Spirit as we are in the flesh? I don't assume God would handle things the way that mankind does. We want to believe so much that we have figured God out and just because we want a man, like the one described, to suffer endlessly, God would be "just" for us and punish, punish, punish.
Why can it not be sufficient for a man of such to be completely erased from existence for us to be satisfied? Completely erased from memory so that he would cease to hurt another being. It is the accuser in us that wants someone like him to be tormented like his slaves were tormented. It is sufficient for a man like that to be thrown in the sea of forgetfullness; it would be our own issue should we keep him alive by refusing to forget him.

That is an interesting point you make. There are people who use banishment as a form of punishment for serious offenders. They judge the felon as "persona non gratta" and ignore him. After about three weeks of being ignored by the tribe, the convicted wander off into the wilderness and die.

Very effective deterrent for the rest of the tribe to stay in line.

Man can not exist alone, or else he ceases to exist.

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