Bible inspired by God or just written by man?

[Cobber]

Ok if thats so explain who was there at creation..? Certainly wasnt Moses, who wrote Genesis.. Moses also wasnt there to hear Adams story.. or Noahs story.. Explain when Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted.. Who was there other than Jesus and satan? was Luke there at the birth of Jesus?

We read Psalms and Proverbs and find the words of God to comfort and give us wisdom.. or is David suddenly God? What about Ezekiel and Zecheriah and we read Gods impending wrath.. Who said those things?

I would agree on a combination of both.. but I would not lessen the bibles importance by putting it down to mans experiences with God.

We could spend a lot of time talking about the authorship of the Bible, but it may be beneficial to start a new thread if that is the case.

Just to give a rebuttal to your first statement "Certainly wasnt Moses, who wrote Genesis". Nowhere in the Bible is it specifically stated that Moses wrote genisis or the entire Pentateuch (1st five books of the OT). Even if one believes in the inerrancy of the Bible, a case can be made that he authored only parts and that other writers added sections of their own and/or edited the resultant text.

Most liberal Christians (I would consider myself in this category) generally accept the "Documentary Hypothesis" which asserts that the Pentateuch was written by a group of four authors, from various locations in Palestine, over a period of centuries. Each wrote with the goal of promoting his/her own religious views.

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[Faithfulservant]

yeah I would say thats liberal thinking lol

btw I know what the pentateuch is but Im going to assume that you made that comment for others that may not know.

So when God gave Moses the 10 commandments on stone.. someone was promoting their religious beliefs? Do you also deny the flood and creation or the passover? So in your liberal thinking.. who exactly is Christ? Which parts of the bible do you hold true..if any?

The Laws of the OT for the Jews were what then? Political agenda?

Are you saying Judiasm was not actually valid? That someone decided they would perjure themselves to further their own end?

Are you even suggesting that God doesnt exist?

Thats a broad view you have and with many implications of disbelief that someone could read into it.

Do you not believe that the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because there were not 10 righteous found there?

You and I are on very different levels of belief.

Ive never heard of this btw.. It seems satan has developed another means to contradict the validity of the scriptures...
My fiance has heard of this so maybe Im lacking knowledge in the methods used by the adversary. Thanks for the heads up

 

[Cobber]

yeah I would say thats liberal thinking lol

btw I know what the pentateuch is but Im going to assume that you made that comment for others that may not know.

So when God gave Moses the 10 commandments on stone.. someone was promoting their religious beliefs? Do you also deny the flood and creation or the passover? So in your liberal thinking.. who exactly is Christ? Which parts of the bible do you hold true..if any?

The Laws of the OT for the Jews were what then? Political agenda?

Are you saying Judiasm was not actually valid? That someone decided they would perjure themselves to further their own end?

Are you even suggesting that God doesnt exist?



Thats a broad view you have and with many implications of disbelief that someone could read into it.

Do you not believe that the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because there were not 10 righteous found there?

You and I are on very different levels of belief.

Ive never heard of this btw.. It seems satan has developed another means to contradict the validity of the scriptures...
My fiance has heard of this so maybe Im lacking knowledge in the methods used by the adversary. Thanks for the heads up

With regard to any documentation of history we need to classify what is primary evidence and secondary evidence. If those books were not written by the people concerned then we are reliant on the authors and their intepretations of the events.

For me the creation and flood stories validity is not whats important. It is an explanation of why things are the way they, a bit like the aboriginal "dreamtime" stories that were passed down through the generations. The awesomeness of God, his power, might, compassion and love on mankind is what is more important learning from these books.

I am not saying that God doesnt exist, far from it. I just dont look at the bible in a literal intepretation. By that I mean I am aware of the authorship of the bible (particularly around the social context at the time of writing and the authors own limitations of knowledge). Remember the world was perceived to be flat until 500 years ago.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Remember the world was perceived to be flat until 500 years ago.

au contraire

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

Proverbs 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Amos 9:6 He who builds His layers in the sky, And has founded His strata in the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, And pours them out on the face of the earth-- The Lord is His name.

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

Pretty big statements made by men with no understanding of todays science.... and this is certainly older than 500 years..

Makes you wonder what else God revealed in His word that we dont even comprehend because its so far ahead of us..

I'll stick with taking the bible literally

 

[Cobber]

au contraire

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

Proverbs 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Amos 9:6 He who builds His layers in the sky, And has founded His strata in the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, And pours them out on the face of the earth-- The Lord is His name.

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

Pretty big statements made by men with no understanding of todays science.... and this is certainly older than 500 years..

Makes you wonder what else God revealed in His word that we dont even comprehend because its so far ahead of us..

I'll stick with taking the bible literally

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional. ie in the context it was written you could interpret that the earth was 2 dimensional on a flat disk. It sounds to me you are very supportive of the idea of the bible "without error".

 

[Faithfulservant]

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional. ie in the context it was written you could interpret that the earth was 2 dimensional on a flat disk. It sounds to me you are very supportive of the idea of the bible "without error".

completely without error.. Do you honestly think that if we as an intelligent species just figured out that the world is round 500 years ago could undersand the layers of the atmostphere in thousands of years ago..? Or that the earth hung from nothing?? Think about it... the idea that there were other planets much less a solar system would not have been something that was thought.

Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

a circular horizon on the face of the water at the boundary of light and darkness... when you see the sun set.. it rises from a different direction.........a circle. When was it known that the earth rotated?

This is a big mystery in the bible that came to pass as we advance our knowledge.. Im continuously amazed at how blind we are and yet so very intelligent.

 

[Dor]

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional.QUOTE]

Luk 17:34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. :36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.(KJV)

How is it day and night at the same time when he returns if they thought it was a flat 2 dimensional circle....It could not be unless it was a sphere.

 

[Cobber]

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional.QUOTE]

Luk 17:34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. :36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.(KJV)

How is it day and night at the same time when he returns if they thought it was a flat 2 dimensional circle....It could not be unless it was a sphere.

You have used a very ambigious quote from the bible. One interpretation is that people will be taken up to heaven in one instant. Since some are sleeping (presumably at night) and others are working (presumably in the day time), then the passage would imply that there are people on both sides of the earth. Thus, the earth must be two-sided; and potentially spherical. But on the other hand it could mean that the process of taking people up to heaven might occupy many hours. Thus it might interrupt some people during the afternoon while they are at work, and others at night time when they were sleeping. That would be compatible with a flat earth.

 

[Faithfulservant]

luke 17:24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.

Have you ever seen lightening flash that took hours? No.. its quick.. so quick you could miss it if you werent watching.

How would these people know that in one moment... the same amount of time for lightening to flash across the sky.. how would they know that in one part of the world its daytime and in the other its nighttime? How far do you think these people have traveled in so quick a time to understand that concept? We have timezones I know what time it is in London from the US. I know that you are 9 hours ahead of me so when Im going to bed at night you are just waking up..

Their world did not extend that far they did not even know about this piece of land I live on.

 

[Cobber]

Hi faithfulservant,

I dont know what point you are trying to make? This line just makes the analogy that when jesus comes he will be visible to all just like lightning in the sky is visible from many different parts of the world

 

[Dor]

You have used a very ambigious quote from the bible. One interpretation is that people will be taken up to heaven in one instant. Since some are sleeping (presumably at night) and others are working (presumably in the day time), then the passage would imply that there are people on both sides of the earth. Thus, the earth must be two-sided; and potentially spherical. But on the other hand it could mean that the process of taking people up to heaven might occupy many hours. Thus it might interrupt some people during the afternoon while they are at work, and others at night time when they were sleeping. That would be compatible with a flat earth.

Yes and it could mean he is taking up one person every 100 years if thats what you want to say but it would be hogwash too. He specifically said no one knows the day or the hour...not the days and hours and weeks it is an instant with night and day at the same time.

 

[enton]

I agree. God inspired the Bible but it was written by men. There maybe a lot of errors in the Bible that was not from God, but I believe the fundemental teachings are not, such as stealing is wrong, ect. ect.

I think in general God is not the tyrant the Bible describes him as. I think God told people what to do in order to have a good life, but never punished them. Punishment was cause by themselves, by karma possbile.

So was the Bible written by God? No it probably was not but was it inspired by God? Yes it was. Otherwise it would not be followed by so many people if it did not have such as importance.

But we should not deny this verse:

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

 

[The Lord]

Anyways this one if mostly for you historians: What if Isreal obeyed and drove out all the inhabitants..... Would their be an Islam now?

You are assuming that all of this is historical, which it is not.

 

[The Lord]

But we should not deny this verse:

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Why couldn't God invent paper, it would have been easier for Moses to carry around and would have been a great sign from the Lord?

 

[Quahom1]

You are assuming that all of this is historical, which it is not.

And you know this for certain then?... Archeologists have already proven the existence of a "Joseph, son of Jacob", who carried the signat of Pharoah. National Geographics has the video documentation which was aired several times in the past three months. Funny, but it seems that everytime claims are made or presumed that the history of the Hebrews is myth, evidence of a physical nature seems to become discovered, despite the attempts of others to hide it, which validates scripture, one story at a time.

Because of this "fact", I choose to presume nothing, but be observant of everything.

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

Why couldn't God invent paper, it would have been easier for Moses to carry around and would have been a great sign from the Lord?

Because He gave us a brain, and imagination, and perhaps pointed nonchallantly towards the Papyrus reeds?...

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Canaanites were not "people" according to scripture. Not "people" in the sense that we know them. They were giants, of ill will, and contempt for anyone "lesser" in stature than themselves. They also held God in contempt, as history in the Bible presents such matters. They were not "human" wholey. Since God seems to take pity and have second thoughts on man, everywhere we turn in the Bible, but for certain "races" He has no pity, nor second thoughts about annhialating the "people" of Canaan, and He was going to use mere humans to do it...

The children of these "people" were not human. That is to say, they had no innocence within. The women of this race were not innocent. They cast their lot with the "males" that mated them. The issue was not witchcraft, nor prostitution, that caused their demise. It was hatred for that which they knew beyond the shadow of a doubt, existed. God. And God wins, hands down, in any battle. The animals were "corrupted", interesting take on issues. Genetically altered, perhaps?

According to history. The Canaanites were a force to be reconned with. They NEVER lost. They took nor gave quarter. They destroyed everything in their path. There was no humanity in them.

Very powerful stuff, if true...

v/r

Q

Q, You got a point about the Non-human elements in the OT. That was one of the reasons for the flood. The sons of GOD mixing with the daughters of men making Giants (Nephilim) and the hearts of men being continuously "evil" because of the mixing. Seems their may have been a blood line going that was supposed to be destroyed. It also seems that when humans and the sons of GOD mix that the cities ultimately get destoryed by GOD.
i.e. Sodom and Gomorah. Angels sent to destroy it. With that being said, Wouldn't that make Jesus a mixed being?

But 5th has a point too about why a GOD of compassion "destroys".
Could'nt GOD just change the hearts of these (Nephilim) or send a (Nephilim) that would minister to them like Jesus was sent to the decendants of Isreal (Jacob)?

Also, Iv always wondered why one of the commandements states that
"Thou shalt not Kill" but a large part of the bible after that "law" was enacted speaks about "Judgements" and "killing".

I read the whole bible as a preteen. (Due to having parents that forced me to go church). Doing that left me with a lot of questions.
Just recently I have begun reading it again from cover to cover. Following the stroy line. Im about half way through it. The brutality written about in the OT sometimes causes me to have to put it down and walk away from it for days, but I am going to continue to read it. My next goal is to read the Qur'an from cover to cover and continue on to other religious texts. I have a very curious mind when it comes to religious texts.

I feel that the bible was written by man, but is used by GOD for GOD's purpose. What that purpose is, who knows.

I also feel that most "religious" texts are written thoughts of men and women but are used by GOD for a purpose. What that purpose is, who knows.


One thing is for certain though, GOD is in the mix here because all religions (bar non) (also some non-religious texts) get you to ponder exsistence and its meaning.


MHO ( My humble Opinion)
YO-11

 

[moseslmpg]

I'd have to say that most, if not all, of the Bible was inspired by God and definitely written by man.

If it wasn't inspired by God then there's no way anyone would have written it. Even if it was not inspired by him directly, it must have been inspired by the thought of him.

I'd have to say though, that this huge understaking was necessarily subject to the erring nature of man. Just imagine if God told you something today and you had to write down what it felt like and what he said in contemporary easy to understand terms, making sure that everything was exactly correct in every aspect. It's not as easy as it sounds, I would venture to guess. I think that man may have intuitively ignored or rewritten things that may not have made sense to him, even though they were inspired by God. Then there are the contradictions as well.

I have a book that has further contradictions of the Bible in it, but it's not with me now. After reading this thread and people's understanding of the Bible though I am not surprised at all that there are so many people antithetical to Christianity. To me, parts of the Bible just don't seem right and it's not because I want to be selfish or whatever. Ah, but I don't want to get into that now...

 

[The Lord]

And you know this for certain then?... Archeologists have already proven the existence of a "Joseph, son of Jacob", who carried the signat of Pharoah. National Geographics has the video documentation which was aired several times in the past three months. Funny, but it seems that everytime claims are made or presumed that the history of the Hebrews is myth, evidence of a physical nature seems to become discovered, despite the attempts of others to hide it, which validates scripture, one story at a time.

Because of this "fact", I choose to presume nothing, but be observant of everything.

v/r

Q

I am a student of Egyptian history and I have many "scientific" books and videos, and I have never heard of any historian who claimed so. There are those who claim to be "biblical" historians who try to link history to the bible. It is all based on their belief reference and is garbage. Anyone can infer anything form anything, especially something as vague as the historical references in the bible, which are after all based on the myths and legends native to the Middle East.

 

[The Lord]

Because He gave us a brain, and imagination, and perhaps pointed nonchallantly towards the Papyrus reeds?...

Apparently not. It took the so called "pagan" Egyptians to invent papyrus, and the Buddhist Chinese to invent and the Muslim Arabs to improve and spread paper. It seems that God favored some other people in these cases.