the inner core of essential spiritual truth

lunamoth

lunamoth

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First, credit to arthra for supplying the title of this thread (hope it's OK that I used it, Art). This is a question that's been bouncing around in my head lately and has been touched on in several other threads.

Do you believe that there is one or more core truth(s) shared by most religions? If so, what is it? Thought it would be interesting to hear many different perspectives on this.

peace,
lunamoth
 
Last edited:
Kindest Regards, Luna!

This should become a good thread!

The first thing I see across most religious and faithful expressions is "love." As in, "love your neighbor as yourself." Of course, that is probably the most obvious lesson to gather.
 
I believe that religions share overlapping religious experiences, contextualized by specific theologies, theories, dogmas, and rituals that divide them, and that the "messianic" pull, that is the force that moves a religion forward, is always going to be idealistic, a positive one, and since all humans share the same basic experience of reality, the most basic ideas will usually be communicated within each religion.

None of the surviving world religions today suggest harming other people, because we as a collective know the experience of being hurt, and also the experience of getting along. We know which is more pleasant, and more pragmatic. When I say messianic I don't mean to refer to the messiah. I only use the language of my paradigm. Any concept of an individual being somehow improved or of society being improved in an ethical way and probably also and essentially but not necessarily a spiritual way, I would include this under my label.

I think that this tugging, it's like when you have something heavy that you're pulling, so you tie many strings to it, but it narrows as it gets closer to the end, but as it moves the end gets further away. So even though the ideas aren't specific, they're dancing around a specific end that is always out of reach, like trying to get to Pi. It's irrational. So we get closer and closer with each new generation of mathemeticians and new technology, but it remains somehow elusive. And everybody generally agrees what Pi is now, but that doesn't mean they've actually calculated Pi.

Dauer
 
yes, I believe (actually I should say I know this rather than believe this) there is a connection between all ancient ways and traditions and religions that relate to an inner core of essential spiritual truth ... I have followed this path for about 40 years now looking for links in symbols, in sounds, in myths and stories, and for what I simply refer to as the "ancient path of knowledge" .... from what I have found we are linked in the wisdom left to each of us related to an inner path of energy (which could also be described as the inner core) that we can move through our own bodies to reach that place of enlightnment or knowledge or the hall of records .... the knowledge exists within each of us waiting for us to wake from the long deep sleep .... when we return to this path one-by-one we will also begin the process to change the mass consciousness of the world and when we begin to change our own minds, we will change our world ....all the keys and messages are in the symbols .... we will begin to walk again in beauty ....he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine p.s. someone is bound to ask how do I know, but I don't have an answer because I don't know how I know, I just know it and it comes from deep within .... it was the brightest day of my life when it all fell in place after so many years of seeking ....my priority now is to pass this on to my grandson because it is his generation that will take us to the next level ....
 
does food & water count? i mean spiritual food & water of course.:)
 
How about this:
There is more to Reality than can be perceived by our limited human experiences.


lunamoth said:
Do you believe that there is one or more core truth(s) shared by most religions? If so, what is it? Thought it would be interesting to hear many different perspectives on this.
Click to expand...
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Luna!

This should become a good thread!

The first thing I see across most religious and faithful expressions is "love." As in, "love your neighbor as yourself." Of course, that is probably the most obvious lesson to gather.
Click to expand...

Hey Juan, Thank you for blessing my thread! :)

Yes, this is the main thing I thought of as well. Obvious perhaps, but central I think.

lunamoth
 
dauer said:
I believe that religions share overlapping religious experiences, contextualized by specific theologies, theories, dogmas, and rituals that divide them, and that the "messianic" pull, that is the force that moves a religion forward, is always going to be idealistic, a positive one, and since all humans share the same basic experience of reality, the most basic ideas will usually be communicated within each religion.

None of the surviving world religions today suggest harming other people, because we as a collective know the experience of being hurt, and also the experience of getting along. We know which is more pleasant, and more pragmatic. When I say messianic I don't mean to refer to the messiah. I only use the language of my paradigm. Any concept of an individual being somehow improved or of society being improved in an ethical way and probably also and essentially but not necessarily a spiritual way, I would include this under my label.

I think that this tugging, it's like when you have something heavy that you're pulling, so you tie many strings to it, but it narrows as it gets closer to the end, but as it moves the end gets further away. So even though the ideas aren't specific, they're dancing around a specific end that is always out of reach, like trying to get to Pi. It's irrational. So we get closer and closer with each new generation of mathemeticians and new technology, but it remains somehow elusive. And everybody generally agrees what Pi is now, but that doesn't mean they've actually calculated Pi.

Dauer
Click to expand...

Dauer, I can count on you to push the envelope! :D Let's see if I can paraphrase you, not to take away but to see if I got what you said.

First paragraph: hope
Second paragraph: do no harm
Third paragraph: mystery? mystical experience?

lunamoth
 
pohaikawahine said:
yes, I believe (actually I should say I know this rather than believe this) there is a connection between all ancient ways and traditions and religions that relate to an inner core of essential spiritual truth ... I have followed this path for about 40 years now looking for links in symbols, in sounds, in myths and stories, and for what I simply refer to as the "ancient path of knowledge" .... from what I have found we are linked in the wisdom left to each of us related to an inner path of energy (which could also be described as the inner core) that we can move through our own bodies to reach that place of enlightnment or knowledge or the hall of records .... the knowledge exists within each of us waiting for us to wake from the long deep sleep .... when we return to this path one-by-one we will also begin the process to change the mass consciousness of the world and when we begin to change our own minds, we will change our world ....all the keys and messages are in the symbols .... we will begin to walk again in beauty ....he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine p.s. someone is bound to ask how do I know, but I don't have an answer because I don't know how I know, I just know it and it comes from deep within .... it was the brightest day of my life when it all fell in place after so many years of seeking ....my priority now is to pass this on to my grandson because it is his generation that will take us to the next level ....
Click to expand...

Lovely pohaikawahine, your attunement to symbolism is amazing and I enjoy reading your posts, if I haven't said so before.

Yes, I think that it can be described as an ancient path of knowledge, but a knowledge or wisdom that requires more than just our mind. Let's see, Seattlegal I think referred to compassionate knowing as part of wisdom, that's what I mean here.

And key word: awakening.

Also: transformation.

Thank you!
lunamoth
 
Agnideva said:
How about this:
There is more to Reality than can be perceived by our limited human experiences.
Click to expand...

Hi Agnideva, welcome to CR!

Yes, you have gone right to the root of the matter. There is Something More. Although I like the way dauer put it, that somehow we experience this Something More even though it is beyond objective measure.

cheers,
lunamoth
 
An extension on the love theme... the connection of ourselves to others and to God - that when we love others we are loving God, when we do good for others we are also doing good for ourselves
 
Luna,

reviewing what I wrote, I think the first idea I presented in the first paragraph is that the similarities between religions are found in religious experience, something which I feel transcends our specific dogmas, being beyond words.

Then, hope, yes. It seems like every religion has some model for the individual, the culture, or the world, that it should be a better place. And I think this leads to overlap here. Come to think of it, I didn't have much of a paragraphic structure, did I? Not much order.

2. (down with structured posts) Not harming people is a response to experience, which we share in common, and the dream of a better future, although I didn't quite connect the dots, is also a response to that experience, filling the pulling niche.

D. Not mystical experience. I was actually giving an analogy for that element at the front that pulls. It seems like a point: olam ha-ba, the second coming, enlightenment, or whatever, but the closer we get the further along it seems to move.

I think religions do have the mystical experience in common, but not only. Awe is certainly something many religious people without any mystic leaning experience, as well as love, in the universal sense. But even these words are going beyond the bare experience.

Thesis: Folk around the world have many varied experiences, but they're all within the human experience and thus sharing a generally similar reality. These experiences lead to general conclusions about right and wrong and this at some point leads to the "Ideal Right", the concept that there is a way things could be that would be better, either for the individual (self-betterment, improvement, discipline) or for the world (mass utopia according to one paradigm's vision.)

This ideal that we create pulls us forward toward it, but the closer we get, the further back it moves. It's elusive, in that it continues to move beyond paradigms. To use Judaism for example, the concept of moshiach is no longer about an individual savior for Israel, in liberal Judaism not an individual savior for the world, and sometimes nothing more than a utopian ideal at all. I think this logic is a bit poor, but I still stand by what I said about all religions sharing experience. I think that this is the best place to begin any dialogue, generally. I think the core truth of experience is something that allows for other commonalities, without trying to talk like I actually know something about the world. Me? An agnostic? That's ridiculous.

Dauer
 
At_the_Wellspring said:
An extension on the love theme... the connection of ourselves to others and to God - that when we love others we are loving God, when we do good for others we are also doing good for ourselves
Click to expand...

Hi At the Wellspring, I don't think I've greeted you before. Welcome to CR!

Excellent point. Getting beyond the illusion of separation. That's true at least in the Abrahamic religions. I wonder about in Buddhism and Hinduism?

cheers,
lunamoth
 
Hi dauer, thank you for the clarifications.

I did get your point about religious experience. Bad job of paraphrasing, that. :D

2. OK, now I see (I think). Actually seems related the connectedness ATW above pointed out, but in a material sense. 'I love you because you and I are one soul' compared to 'I will not harm you because my ancestors and family have collective wisdom indicating that it ultimately undermines what we want to achieve in that ideal state.'??

D. Again, you say utopian ideal, and now I think I get what you mean by Messianic. You say it's like a motive force but like the old riddle you can always get halfway there but you can't ever get there?

This could lead to a very interesting discussion about Messianic Hope and pragmatic religion. But not tonight. <getting sleepy>

cheers,
lunamoth
 
Thanks lunamoth :)


Yeah, can't say i know much about Buddhism/ Hinduism. Though one thing I picked up from the limited reading I have done, was the idea of 'detachment'. Can't say I'm an expert, but I wonder if the idea of detachment in eastern philosophy is at all comparable to the Christian notions of detachment from the 'worldly' world and greater focus on the 'spiritual' world?

I'm not sure but it would be an interesting discussion about detachment from the world vs engagement with the world... anyway, i'm side-tracking here...
 
Just saw your next thread lunamoth, so good night, sleep well :)

I've done a few posts but not had a reply straight away like just now, so that was just quietly quite exciting - I start to wonder if my time zone is just too out-of-whack with everyone else. I need to get and do some work now...

Thanks for the thread :)
 
At_the_Wellspring said:
Thanks lunamoth :)


Yeah, can't say i know much about Buddhism/ Hinduism. Though one thing I picked up from the limited reading I have done, was the idea of 'detachment'. Can't say I'm an expert, but I wonder if the idea of detachment in eastern philosophy is at all comparable to the Christian notions of detachment from the 'worldly' world and greater focus on the 'spiritual' world?

I'm not sure but it would be an interesting discussion about detachment from the world vs engagement with the world... anyway, i'm side-tracking here...
Click to expand...


Oh, I think detachment is very much another key word. In Christianity we have the dying of our false self, which I think is like detachment in Eastern Thought. Perhaps some of our other knowledgeable members here will chime in on this one.

peace,
lunamoth
 
At_the_Wellspring said:
Just saw your next thread lunamoth, so good night, sleep well :)

I've done a few posts but not had a reply straight away like just now, so that was just quietly quite exciting - I start to wonder if my time zone is just too out-of-whack with everyone else. I need to get and do some work now...

Thanks for the thread :)
Click to expand...

Hey ATW, I've heard New Zealand is beautiful, and by the movies Lord of the Ring it does seem to be heaven on earth there.

Yes, time for me to sign off for now. Glad to have made your day a bit more exciting! Nice chatting with you too. :)

Cheers,
lunamoth
 
Luna,

2. Yes. But I don't think any of this is happening consciously. I don't think we choose. But just like other animals, something feels good and we do it. Something feels bad and we don't do it. Only we have a greater level of discernment that goes way beyond visceral pleasures. And we have imagination. So one day one of the rats in the cage says, "It'd be great if we got great food all the time, and the weather was always perfect, and everybody got along, and nobody stole food, and agnostic encounters always went well." And that's all based on past experiences, but I don't think for a minute Mr. Kaboodle becomes conscious of what's happening.

The way I understand who I am, is that I am the sum total of all of my experiences up until this very moment, plus some important genetic material. And this is how I see life as a whole, not that we have access to the experiences of our ancestors, but that their knowledge and wisdom can get passed down and translated orally, through books, and through observation. So that right now humanity for me is at its highest peak, but it continues to reach higher peaks, although sometimes there may be dips backward, and we may be in one right now, and I guess to borrow from Ken Wilber, there are probably different developmental lines on which humanity is moving forward.

D. Exactly. But I think that this is a direct product of experience. It is also possible any utopian ideal is simply a metaphor for life's drive to adapt and evolve and survive. The most survivable life is in harmony. I don't know. I really don't know.

Dauer
 
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