Noahs day

[mee]

Jesus said that his presence ( some bibles say coming)would be the same as Noahs day...matthew 24;37-38

For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be..... according to the bible , Jesus presence started in 1914 when he was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens, i thought it was interesting that when Jesus said it would be the same as the days of Noah , Jesus did not mention the violence, or the false religion, or the immorality, as bad as it was in those pre-flood days, but the error that Jesus highlighted was the fact that they refused to heed the warning given by Noah,they were just living normal lives but they took no note .. so do you think that a warning message is going on in our day on a global scale?

 

[Bandit]

he said it would be just like it was in Noahs day. (Unbelief & party time!)
& all the people not inside are going to drown. bloop bloop

only the people listening are taking any warning Mee. i dont expect very many to be listening any more. & that is just the way it is.
no matter how many not on board mock it, the ones on the ark in it for the long haul & Jesus is the captain.

noah built an ark, he built it on the ground
the rains came down and it floated all around

the old ark is moving, moving, moving
& i thank God.

 

[mee]

he said it would be just like it was in Noahs day. (Unbelief & party time!)
& all the people not inside are going to drown. bloop bloop

only the people listening are taking any warning Mee. i dont expect very many to be listening any more. & that is just the way it is.
no matter how many not on board mock it, the ones on the ark in it for the long haul & Jesus is the captain.

noah built an ark, he built it on the ground
the rains came down and it floated all around

the old ark is moving, moving, moving
& i thank God.

so do you think that a warning work is going on in these last days ? i dont think Jesus said it was party time i think he said that people were going about their normal lives , we all do those things eat, drink, get married ,,etc ect but they did not listen to the warning that was what Jesus highlighted the fact that they took no note ,infact they must have thought that Noah was a crazy bloke , he was warning them for about 40 or 50 years i think and when he was building that ark they must have thought he was mad because it had never flooded the whole earth before
By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this [faith] he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith....hebrews 11;7 so it was that noah was given devine warning about things not yet beheld(the flood) its the same today we are awaiting the great tribulation that will come up on the whole of the earth

for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. matthew 24;21

An integral part of the Kingdom message preached earth wide by Jehovah’s Witnesses is the warning that God’s Kingdom will soon remove human rulership. (Daniel 2:44) This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) He did in Noah’s day, and he will in our day.—2 Peter 3:3-7

 

[Bandit]

so do you think that a warning work is going on in these last days ? i dont think Jesus said it was party time i think he said that people were going about their normal lives , we all do those things eat, drink, get married ,,etc ect but they did not listen to the warning that was what Jesus highlighted the fact that they took no note ,infact they must have thought that Noah was a crazy bloke , he was warning them for about 40 or 50 years i think and when he was building that ark they must have thought he was mad because it had never flooded the whole earth before
By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this [faith] he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith....hebrews 11;7 so it was that noah was given devine warning about things not yet beheld(the flood) its the same today we are awaiting the great tribulation that will come up on the whole of the earth

for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. matthew 24;21

An integral part of the Kingdom message preached earth wide by Jehovah’s Witnesses is the warning that God’s Kingdom will soon remove human rulership. (Daniel 2:44) This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) He did in Noah’s day, and he will in our day.—2 Peter 3:3-7

i think Noah preached for 120 years & every wedding i have ever been to they were having a big drunken party. (except for some church weddings)

the problem is unbelief. people do not fear God or love Him. why build or get into an ark if it has never rained? the masses today do not even believe in Noah & the bible. people think it is just a fairy tale.
sound familiar?
When God shuts the door...they sink or swim.

do i think everyone heeds the warning? NO, because we have video games & gadgets to keep us busy.
do we sound like crazy blokes? YES, but i dont care what others think
Mee, i am not too worried about what is going to happen outside of the Ark. i am in the ark before the rain comes & that is what matters. if people want in, then they get in...& nothing we do or say is going to change. people decide for themselves.

my two cents on that.

 

[smkolins]

There are forces of integration and disintegration in the world. But these are tumultuous times. Words can be used and abused by either side - we teach it in fact. We want children to learn how to say things well, but care rather little if what they say is shameful.

But all is not lost, all is not chaos. Every time a hand is held to help someone fallen on the ground to be raised up, everytime people accept cooperation and further it.

 

[lunamoth]

I know the world is not all daisies and pie in the sky, but every generation seems to think that things are just getting worse and, if you're so inclined, that the end is nigh. Yes, there is cruelty and greed and ignorance and most of all FEAR, and people do evil things. BUT, there is also a lot of courage, kindness, generosity, compassion, and charity in the world too. It doesn't make the news and it doesn't need to, IMO (heck, most of what is in the news doen't need to make the news). But really, I look around and the people I see are flawed for certain but nice or at least striving for grace and kindness in their lives for the most part. Just where are are these hoards of people pushing us to hell in a handbasket? Have you actually ever met any of them?

The trendy scapegoat today is the demon Materialism. All the ills of the world are blamed on the beasts industry and science, which serve the master money-power in the religion of Materialism. Everything bad about people is supposedly related to the fact that we have and want STUFF and think that we will be secure if only we get all the STUFF the ads say we need. But this is nothing new, and it is a strawman issue. We are material and we do have material needs, and science helps us address those material needs. To deny this is really putting your head in the sand. Science and materialism are not the adverse or opposites of spirituality. Materialism, like any basic human need, if taken to an extreme is indeed a problem. And we can live quite a bit more minimally than we do (Jesus gave us a great example of that!), but we are still bodies+souls and we live a basic material existence. And, if you accept fundamental Christian doctrine, you also believe that you will continue to have a body of sorts (transformed) after death. Jesus was the firstfruits of the resurrection, and that is not just a JW belief. And Jesus gave us material gifts (Body and Blood/ the Eucharist) to be His remembrance to us.

Anyway, I am totally for responsible industry and ethical science and moderation in all things and compassion at all times, but I do not think the world is getting worse. We have some real challenges ahead of us (why do we never ever hear anyone talking about population control anymore???), and it is possible that things could take a sudden and dramatic turn for the worse. Yes, I believe that a material implementation of an End Times could happen in a way today that it couldn't before the world wars I and II. But, are people worse, more decadent, more materialistic? I don't think so.

Related to the recently revived Rapture thread: I'm not sure if God wants us to believe in a literal Rapture or Flood, but my best thinking is that He wants us to live as if we do.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[lunamoth]

Related to the recently revived Rapture thread: I'm not sure if God wants us to believe in a literal Rapture or Flood, but my best thinking is that He wants us to live as if we do.

For clarification, I don't mean that we should live as if in fear of God's wrath, but as if we have faith in His Promise of Deliverance.

lunamoth

 

[Bandit]

Nice post Luna

I certainly dont need any more STUFF.

at times do you feel a crescendo of all these things?

if we doubled in 40 years from 3 to 6 bil, what is that going to be like in 20 years? Most families only have 1-3 kids today.
Do you think some of it has to do with the population increase? when the more people you have in a given space, the more fighting there is for territory & STUFF.

I know it has always been, yet i just dont understand the greed the hate, the gossip, the power & control over others. it is like a disease.
I dont tust people like i used to. i do see a pardigm shift to a lack of love & a false sense of security & peace, where it seems people are more angry & tempestuous.
Quicker to fly off the handle over little things.

when i saw help going to the people in New Orleans & mobs of people shooting at the help, where does that come from?
People are going to do what they want to do & no one is going to stop them.
& it is the few who keep showing love & kindness that bring hope.
Jesus is that hope, after all this is over Jesus is that hope & friend who sticks closer than brother.
So if we look at all the crazy STUFF, then we lose focus of our purpose here.
But if we stay in the ark of safety with Jesus, then we have that hope that others do not have & that is the eternal hope of glory.
We cant change what is going to be, unless everyone comes to terms & history, the words of Jesus AND the book of Revelations shows that is not going to happen.

so what are we supposed to do?

Just where are are these hoards of people pushing us to hell in a handbasket? Have you actually ever met any of them?

i have. unless you are in the same religion, then you go to hell & that has been a Christian/religious attitude since the RCC & has never stopped with all these denominations, right on down the line. (except for a couple & some people from within) no one can tell me different. so it is not just a science thing, it goes all the way down the line P.E.E.R. & the STUFF across the board.
Religions 'think' they are separating the goats form the sheep, but the bible says Jesus will do it.

i think of Bette Midlers From a distance where she sings

From a distance, you look like my friend
Even though we are at war.
From a distance I cannot comprehend
What all the fighting is for.

From a distance, the world looks blue and green
and the snow-capped mountains white.
From a distance the ocean meets the stream
and the eagle takes to flight.
From a distance there is harmony
and it echoes through the land.
It's the voice of hope, it's the voice of peace,
it's the voice of every man.
From a distance, we all have enough
And no one is in need.
There are no guns, no bombs, no diseases,
No hungry mouths to feed.
From a distance we are instruments
Marching in a common band
Playing songs of hope, playing songs of peace
They're the songs of every man.
From a distance, you look like my friend
Even though we are at war.
From a distance I cannot comprehend
What all the fighting is for.
From a distance there is harmony
And it echoes through the land.
It's the hope of hopes, it's the love of loves.
It's the heart of every man.
God is watching us
God is watching us
God is watching us from a distance.

 

[Bandit]

For clarification, I don't mean that we should live as if in fear of God's wrath, but as if we have faith in His Promise of Deliverance.

lunamoth

Right. there is no fear of His wrath when we love Him & do our best to love our neighbor.
on these 2 commandments- hang the whole law.

Rapture is doctrine(s), just like everything else & i am not getting into all those debates.
what will be will be.
Allah knows best.

 

[mee]

Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever 1 John 2;17 Just as the globe of the earth was not destroyed in noahs day, it will not be destroyed in the great tribulation , but the desires of the world society of people on the earth now, will pass away. because only those desiring to do the will of God will be left over in it

(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it

and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people 2;peter 2;5

​

(Matthew 7:21) "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will

When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left,,,matthew 25.31-33

For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning. 2 peter 3;3-4

Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. 2 peter 3;10

For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late. habakkuk 2;3

 

[smkolins]

The trendy scapegoat today is the demon Materialism. All the ills of the world are blamed on the beasts industry and science, which serve the master money-power in the religion of Materialism. Everything bad about people is supposedly related to the fact that we have and want STUFF and think that we will be secure if only we get all the STUFF the ads say we need. But this is nothing new, and it is a strawman issue. We are material and we do have material needs, and science helps us address those material needs. To deny this is really putting your head in the sand. Science and materialism are not the adverse or opposites of spirituality. Materialism, like any basic human need, if taken to an extreme is indeed a problem.

I would note that Fortune magazine ran a cover story on Mussolini in 1934, praising his fascism for its ability to break worker unions, disempower workers and transfer huge sums of money to those who controlled the money rather than those who earned it. I would note that significant drug use is found among the poor and rich and children are mugged over ipods and shoes. I would note that Communism and Facism are close kin of materialism and governed much of the world not so long ago - and I fear the forces that made the dominant are not far from us. Recall communism is where the left reaches it's extreme and Facism is where the right reaches it's extreme - and then they almost meet.

I agree science itself is not the problem, nor industry in and of itself, nor even international commerce itself.

From my pov the manifestation of materialism that is currently in vogue is that businesses are actually generally forbiden to consider the better course of action for the general population but ONLY their investors at the same time they are empowered as people to sign contracts and so on. In other words they are legally people in the US and at the same time legally bound to an insanity. An example of the possible ethical stance is buried here deep in long philosphical discourse, while the reality is covered in the news with collosal failures of massive businesses. There is no moral imperitive for ethics in business except law-abiding which is connected to whether you are caught or not.

 

[lunamoth]

Nice post Luna

I certainly dont need any more STUFF.

at times do you feel a crescendo of all these things?

Hi Bandit, thank you. I don't need any more STUFF either. The best thing about moving is giving away a lot of stuff and putting that detachment thing into practice.

Yes, I admit that at times it feels like things are building up to something, that all the evil and misfortune in the world are approaching a breaking point, how can we go on with children starving and people freezing in Pakistan because they don't have enough tents. The gap between rich and poor ever increasing, reality TV...sorry, just trying to lighten up a bit there. But I also think that every generation feels this way to an extent, yet we are better off than people were before things like antibiotics. It's largely in our perspective.

if we doubled in 40 years from 3 to 6 bil, what is that going to be like in 20 years? Most families only have 1-3 kids today.
Do you think some of it has to do with the population increase? when the more people you have in a given space, the more fighting there is for territory & STUFF.

I think that population is part of it. I don't know the latest birth statistics but it seems to me that where I live the trend toward larger families has returned. But, maybe it's just because I moved from the eastern coast to mid-america. Hey, I love large families. The one that made the news recently (and in your other thread) is amazing and makes me think about all those homey things like the Waltons. But the USA aside, take a look at India and see what overpopulation looks like. China took draconian measures to try to pull her population back. It's only logical that more people in the world vying for dwindling resources will mean increasing problems.

But, I am not a social scientist. It could very well be that with a lot more efficient and just distribution of resources, a lot more conservation, and education, populations would level out somewhere and not be a problem.

I know it has always been, yet i just dont understand the greed the hate, the gossip, the power & control over others. it is like a disease.

I know what you mean, and I think that is these things, rather than an increase in materialism, that is the root of the problem. The disease is fear, insecurity. I don't know if these things are getting worse, but certainly the shrinking size of the world makes it much more apparent. Materialism is a symptom rather than a cause, I think.

I dont tust people like i used to. i do see a pardigm shift to a lack of love & a false sense of security & peace, where it seems people are more angry & tempestuous.
Quicker to fly off the handle over little things.

I'm trying to trust people more, without being totally stupid about it of course. But, when the only bad outcome would be embrassment or losing face, or even small amounts of money or whatever, I've decided I need to be less suspicious and more generous. Least costly of all is just to practice letting people be themselves, different from me, and having that be OK, without need to criticize or judge. Least costly, but still hard to do sometimes.

when i saw help going to the people in New Orleans & mobs of people shooting at the help, where does that come from?

Fear, and breakdown of family and social support.

People are going to do what they want to do & no one is going to stop them.
& it is the few who keep showing love & kindness that bring hope.
Jesus is that hope, after all this is over Jesus is that hope & friend who sticks closer than brother.

I agree.

i have. unless you are in the same religion, then you go to hell & that has been a Christian/religious attitude since the RCC & has never stopped with all these denominations, right on down the line. (except for a couple & some people from within) no one can tell me different. so it is not just a science thing, it goes all the way down the line P.E.E.R. & the STUFF across the board.
Religions 'think' they are separating the goats form the sheep, but the bible says Jesus will do it.

Oh, yes sadly there is a lot of 'everyone else is going to hell but us' attitude among the denominations, and between religions in some cases. But that was not what I meant. I mean that when writing on the internet or talking with others we tend to paint in these broad brush stokes about all these "others" who are so much more debauched and greedy than we are. But where are these people? Sure, some outlandish cases make the news and theere are a lot of sick, abused and mentally ill people out there who do terrible things, and then there are the fringe fundamentalist groups like the paranoid militants and terrorists, but for sure aren't all these together still a minority and not really some kind of organized or growing group of people, are they? Isn't the problem more that each of us can give into tempations and vice and greed a little bit of the time, and all together it keeps the whole of society from improving. Shorter version, there is no them, only us. What is PEER?

i think of Bette Midlers From a distance where she sings

I never knew all the words of that song or what it was about. Thank you. Is it really a Bette Midler song? I think I've heard someone else sing it.

cheers,
lunamoth

 

[lunamoth]

Hi Steven,

I admit that I worded that paragraph in part to be provocative, playing a bit of the devil's advocate to stimulate discussion. Materialism, meaning when emphasis on our material being exceeds or even extinguishes our spiritual being, is indeed undesirable. I think I did say in a couple of different ways that moderation in all things is a virtue. However, as I said to Bandit above, I think that materialism is a symptom of the problem, not the root of it. The root of the problem in my unlettered opinion is that we have a deep rooted fear and insecurity overall. The world can be harsh and our control over it is limited. That's why the greatest commandments are to love God and love each other: to combat this deep insecurity. We have lost touch with the earth, with our spiritual nature, and with each other. Some people strive for power, some for material wealth, some drown their brains in drugs and alcohol and gossip and gambling to distract themselves from this fear. Pretty heavy stuff. Guess that thinking about communism and fascism does that to me.

I would note that Fortune magazine ran a cover story on Mussolini in 1934, praising his fascism for its ability to break worker unions, disempower workers and transfer huge sums of money to those who controlled the money rather than those who earned it. I would note that significant drug use is found among the poor and rich and children are mugged over ipods and shoes. I would note that Communism and Facism are close kin of materialism and governed much of the world not so long ago - and I fear the forces that made the dominant are not far from us. Recall communism is where the left reaches it's extreme and Facism is where the right reaches it's extreme - and then they almost meet.

Interesting take on it. I agree that the extremes of poverty and wealth in this day is a travesty. We are failing the Biblical injuction to help the poor and weak and to stop oppression. What did these philosophical systems lack? I think you and I would agree that they tried to accomplish by force and law what should be accomplished by transformation of the heart and love. But that does sound all hippy happy, doesn't it.

I agree science itself is not the problem,

well, that's good in my opinion.

... nor industry in and of itself, nor even international commerce itself.

From my pov the manifestation of materialism that is currently in vogue is that businesses are actually generally forbiden to consider the better course of action for the general population but ONLY their investors at the same time they are empowered as people to sign contracts and so on. In other words they are legally people in the US and at the same time legally bound to an insanity. An example of the possible ethical stance is buried here deep in long philosphical discourse, while the reality is covered in the news with collosal failures of massive businesses. There is no moral imperitive for ethics in business except law-abiding which is connected to whether you are caught or not.

Business is not my bag. If I had to sell for a living I'd starve. Investment and stocks etc seem like a necessary evil to me. I sense and also know from the headlines that things are majorly messed up, and yes my easy way out would be to blame it largely on this. But I know that I am probably just being too simplistic. Like it or not we can't go back to farming or just trading services and goods in barter. I guess it has got to be changed by changing the way we teach and reward our children, and what we model in our own lives. Really, I am at a disadvantage in understanding here.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[smkolins]

Business is not my bag. If I had to sell for a living I'd starve. Investment and stocks etc seem like a necessary evil to me. I sense and also know from the headlines that things are majorly messed up, and yes my easy way out would be to blame it largely on this. But I know that I am probably just being too simplistic. Like it or not we can't go back to farming or just trading services and goods in barter. I guess it has got to be changed by changing the way we teach and reward our children, and what we model in our own lives.

My wife, when dealing with racism issues, speaks of "institutional unity" in responce to institutional racism. The idea is that the good is not an accident. It must be planned for, cultivated, nutured, taught. The same thing should be in the business world. Law is insufficient but necessary. Teaching is better than just laws.

I agree Love is the answer, but not the kind of love you read in too many books. The kind of love that keeps a parent up nights seaking to confort an ailing baby - the kind of love that drives a parent down streets looking for a lost child - the kind of love that makes a child eager to learn skip a drug choice, or an expensive shoe, out of respect for a parent's labor. Love is a discipline as well as a joy, a freedom as well as a bondage, a responsibility as well as a gift.

Business currently rests on voluntary morals, and sometimes the moral get shuved aside. I consciously chose to work in public education, and about 1/2 the salary, over free enterprise because at least the priority is supposed to be children however much isn't working. Here, at least sometimes, there can still be a sense of shame when one has gone too far. In business that only comes when the business fails, and the millions of dead smokers, for example, testifies.

 

[mee]

so i would agree that it is like Noahs day , people do not heed the warning , but go about what ever they are doing in life , in fact those who give warning are most likely made to look as if they are crazy. this happened in the past and is happening now.

others besides noah and his family ,could have survived if they had been willing to change their life-style ,its the same today

Yet, today’s generation will be without excuse when the great tribulation arrives. Why? Because there are Bible accounts of ancient divine judgments that set a pattern for what God will do in our day. (Jude 5-7) Bible prophecy in course of fulfillment right before our eyes shows conclusively where we are in the stream of time. one verse in the bible which says it all is this one

Get saved from this crooked generation acts 2;40

 

[Bandit]

Hi Bandit, thank you. I don't need any more STUFF either. The best thing about moving is giving away a lot of stuff and putting that detachment thing into practice.

sweep sweep swep, the dirt right out the door. I know some of it is good stuff but we do have so much STUFF.

Yes, I admit that at times it feels like things are building up to something, that all the evil and misfortune in the world are approaching a breaking point, how can we go on with children starving and people freezing in Pakistan because they don't have enough tents. The gap between rich and poor ever increasing, reality TV...sorry, just trying to lighten up a bit there. But I also think that every generation feels this way to an extent, yet we are better off than people were before things like antibiotics. It's largely in our perspective.

I know what you are saying & I agree to a point.

I cant say it is just perspective, though I wish it were. This is real life. I can say it is all good, but even Jesus said there is none good but ONE.

We did not have metal detectors for children to pass through & police monitoring halls in school twenty years ago & that is when we were all getting polio shots. We did not have gangs like we have today. We had a visible KKK which is similar IMO, but not living on the streets in hundreds of thousands selling & using drugs to get by on.

Luna, we did not have to lock our front door 30 years ago because people trusted each other. There is a break in every other month on my street & I do not live in a bad neighborhood. I don’t know where the people are coming from. Church & school doors are locked after all the people enter & class begins & they used remain unlocked, because we all trusted. So, we have a generation coming up that thinks this is the normal way to live.

I don’t need to write it all out because we all are aware.

I think the times have changed & there is a lack of love & respect today that was not ‘eagerly present’ back in the 70s & 80s.

Certainly we had days of slavery, no womens rights & unfairness in child labor laws, but quite often I feel like we peaked in the 80s & now things are spiraling back, just different & tougher issues. I cant say everything that pops into peoples heads today is progress like it was for the last century. While it appears to be progress, there are so many issues that there seems to be no absolute answer to it all. Too many new gadgets (junk/stuff) on the market today ends up creating a problem it seems like.

(that may be my perception, at the same time it has graduated to a throw away society & I do not understand that)

I think that population is part of it. I don't know the latest birth statistics but it seems to me that where I live the trend toward larger families has returned. But, maybe it's just because I moved from the eastern coast to mid-america. Hey, I love large families. The one that made the news recently (and in your other thread) is amazing and makes me think about all those homey things like the Waltons. But the USA aside, take a look at India and see what overpopulation looks like. China took draconian measures to try to pull her population back. It's only logical that more people in the world vying for dwindling resources will mean increasing problems.

Yah, I liked that Dugger family. It was refreshing to me to see them.

I know the USA is blessed more than any country. At the same time I see all these new & rather ungodly religions coming out of nowhere & if you really look at it…the nations that reject God & Jesus (or should say will not allow it freely) have had the biggest problems & that tells me a lot.

it does not have to be that way though. There is enough & we know it, but greed will not allow others to have even a small piece. Families like the Waltons was a way of life & it was real. Harder physically but the overwhelming stress on peoples minds today could not compare, to what it would be waiting for a rain storm to increase our product & delighting in God over the rain. I don’t understand where the family value went over the last decade. The days when family meant something & they worked together & ate together & prayed & went to church together. I know we still have family businesses but not so many like it used to be. Once in awhile I still find the same values.

But, I am not a social scientist. It could very well be that with a lot more efficient and just distribution of resources, a lot more conservation, and education, populations would level out somewhere and not be a problem.

my thought on that is we are just resources to the rich & corporate world & no loss if 50 million just hit the bucket…we have plenty of people to fill their shoes...as long as we keep enough of the tax money coming in to keep the government moving.

I could go on & on & on…but then it sounds like complaining even though it is a reality.

I know what you mean, and I think that is these things, rather than an increase in materialism, that is the root of the problem. The disease is fear, insecurity. I don't know if these things are getting worse, but certainly the shrinking size of the world makes it much more apparent. Materialism is a symptom rather than a cause, I think.

Materialism has always been. I remember Jesus telling the rich man who had kept all the commandments from his youth to sell all that he had & give to the poor but he could not do it & went away sorrowful.

I think it is greed & everyone wants ‘power’ today & everyone feels threatened & scared of each other. I think we are in agreement because man has finally populated the globe & in that, we see it more abundant.

I'm trying to trust people more, without being totally stupid about it of course. But, when the only bad outcome would be embrassment or losing face, or even small amounts of money or whatever, I've decided I need to be less suspicious and more generous. Least costly of all is just to practice letting people be themselves, different from me, and having that be OK, without need to criticize or judge. Least costly, but still hard to do sometimes.

Trust is the biggest issue for me. It is easy to love & forgive & pass a few extra bucks, but when it comes to trust, it is real hard for me to get that back & has taken 5 years or more after someone really breaks that bond. I think it is easier to trust when we are young & friends are easier met. Though mostly they just become acquaintances. It is very rare for me to trust today & when it happens, it just feels right.

Making mistakes or a tiny lie is not the same as flat out betrayal & there is a lot of betrayal in the world. People turn on each other quickly today.

You can try being more generous as long as that does not become abused, which has been the case for many & they just stop all together, like myself. I don’t see watching out for ourselves as a bad thing because no one is going to that for us.

It would be different & easy if there was complete trust in the world. I have been robbed, mugged, my house broken into, hundreds & hundreds of dollars stolen, had a switch blade held to my face, a loaded gun shoved into my gutt, my cars stolen, lived on the streets, falsely accused by law for what?? So some drug addict can spend a week stoned on me & laugh…& I am DONE with the world.

Fear, and breakdown of family and social support.

I agree to a point it is fear & insecurity but more so it is greed & selfishness from the poorest man to the richest man. The we see the scripture that tells us mens hearts would fail them for fear. This is what happens when the minority who we presume is bad, increases & it spreads to outweigh the good. What went down in N.O., has always been there. It was like stepping on a fire aunt hill & they all came out running & attacking. It did not just happen over night & every inner city today is full of that & it has crept into the small towns too.

Terrorism & gang violence is a very big thing today that did not used to exist on this kind of scale & it has become a way of life. So, I cant say these types of people are doing what they do because of fear, but rather the lack of fear & they create fear for the innocent & those who would do good & bring help. Hard to explain, but there is a shift in every day violence that we did not see 30 years ago.

This is not the same thing as robbing a bank to get ahead, it is about murder, liars who do not care or love themselves & law/government cannot seem to stop it.



I think some of the hype in the media is to make a buck & why do so many thrive on the negative news reports? I do think most of it is real because they know better than to tell too many lies for law suits.

The scripture says it would be as it was in the days of Noah & I don’t think Jesus was just making stuff up. It was covered with gross darkness & man was evil continually. Noah was inside of the Ark for seven days before the rain began…so in realitiy we have not begin to have the rain that destroyed all flesh. The ‘rain’ came 7 days AFTER they were all safe inside the ark (& this is the period we are atill in because people are still coming into the ark for safety & the door has not been shut as of yet.)

So I tend to think one reason we still see light is because the church is still here waiting for her bridge groom & of course Israel is also a special light in its own exceptional way.

Jesus said, Watch ye therefore & pray always. He said, be ye therefore also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the son of man cometh.

How, when & where I don’t know, but I believe because there is nothing else to believe in that even compares to the richness of Gods kingdom & His love & mercy.

Oh, yes sadly there is a lot of 'everyone else is going to hell but us' attitude among the denominations, and between religions in some cases. But that was not what I meant. I mean that when writing on the internet or talking with others we tend to paint in these broad brush stokes about all these "others" who are so much more debauched and greedy than we are. But where are these people? Sure, some outlandish cases make the news and theere are a lot of sick, abused and mentally ill people out there who do terrible things, and then there are the fringe fundamentalist groups like the paranoid militants and terrorists, but for sure aren't all these together still a minority and not really some kind of organized or growing group of people, are they? Isn't the problem more that each of us can give into tempations and vice and greed a little bit of the time, and all together it keeps the whole of society from improving. Shorter version, there is no them, only us.

this is my biggest dislike for Christianity/religion & I don’t think traditions of men change that much. The fry in hell doctrine & they think it is funny. I believe some go to hell & some go to heaven, but I think the bride of Christ will come out as individual people within churches. NOT, just one religion like they profess. I do see an us & them because the body of Christ is different & she knows she is different but not the same as us & them because we are better, but because the bride is special. Religion created us & them because of doctrine. As far as I am concerned the ones who preach hell constantly, have a lack love & they are the ones who go to hell right along with their religion. I could write 100 pages on it with scriptures too. I also see two different & distinct judgments, not just one like others see.

Greed to me is when we want more more more. I am MORE than content with what I have & consider it all blessings from God, not everyone sees it that way.

I would say we are all in the same water, but not everyone is on the same boat or looking for a life line.

After all has been said, the only place I find comfort & true peace & love is the Word & in the spirit of prayer & knowing that Jesus will not fail, because I don’t have anything else to believe in.

 

[lunamoth]

I mean that when writing on the internet or talking with others we tend to paint in these broad brush stokes about all these "others" who are so much more debauched and greedy than we are. But where are these people?

OK, perhaps I am way off base after all. Just noticed this article on CNN this morning. It sounds like at least in certain high schools things are getting much worse! I dread my kids' teen years already. Talk about rampant materialism out of control!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/16/prom.canceled.ap/index.html

(edit: looks like that link is not going to work, maybe CNN doesn't allow it or something. anyway, I suppose you can cut and paste to get to the link and read it)

Here's a bit from the intro:

UNIONDALE, New York (AP) -- Brother Kenneth M. Hoagland had heard all the stories about prom-night debauchery at his Long Island high school:

Students putting down $10,000 to rent a party house in the Hamptons.

Pre-prom cocktail parties followed by a trip to the dance in a liquor-loaded limo.

Fathers chartering a boat for their children's late-night "booze cruise."

Enough was enough, Hoagland said. So the principal of Kellenberg Memorial High School canceled the spring prom in a 2,000-word letter to parents this fall.

"It is not primarily the sex/booze/drugs that surround this event, as problematic as they might be; it is rather the flaunting of affluence, assuming exaggerated expenses, a pursuit of vanity for vanity's sake -- in a word, financial decadence," Hoagland said, fed up with what he called the "bacchanalian aspects."

lunamoth

 

[Bandit]

...continued...

What is PEER?

I never knew all the words of that song or what it was about. Thank you. Is it really a Bette Midler song? I think I've heard someone else sing it.

Politics, Economics, Education, Religion.

It is a remake by Bette & I think Judy Collins made it popular right along with wind beneath my wings. Bette does mostly remakes, but I think she is the best! I like her a lot.



I guess the only questions I really have is…do you feel that the tsunami, the 2 major hurricanes & this last earthquake was a lot for one year?

Would you agree that we have been conditioned over the past couple of decades to simply not dwell on the negativity around us to keep our sanity?

And Why or why not?

Do you remember the years of great industry when families lived on well paid factory work & the father could support his family without the mother working? And then when they started moving the factories south & eventually overseas?
It has been replaced by retail & department store jobs.
I still do not understand that & it seems to me that someone out there has billions of dollars by doing this & the money is not being returned to the poor & middle class in the U.S. like it used to be.

I like talking to you Luna because you keep a good outlook without ignoring what is really happening & that is wise IMO.
I am not going to worry too much, because i know ahead of time, all these things must come to pass.

 

[Bandit]

so i would agree that it is like Noahs day , people do not heed the warning , but go about what ever they are doing in life , in fact those who give warning are most likely made to look as if they are crazy. this happened in the past and is happening now.

others besides noah and his family ,could have survived if they had been willing to change their life-style ,its the same today

Yet, today’s generation will be without excuse when the great tribulation arrives. Why? Because there are Bible accounts of ancient divine judgments that set a pattern for what God will do in our day. (Jude 5-7) Bible prophecy in course of fulfillment right before our eyes shows conclusively where we are in the stream of time. one verse in the bible which says it all is this one

Get saved from this crooked generation acts 2;40

Mee, i dont think the rain has even begun. what we are seeing is the thunder & lightening, but i do not expect the world to understand that.

 

[Bandit]

OK, perhaps I am way off base after all. Just noticed this article on CNN this morning. It sounds like at least in certain high schools things are getting much worse! I dread my kids' teen years already. Talk about rampant materialism out of control!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/16/prom.canceled.ap/index.html

(edit: looks like that link is not going to work, maybe CNN doesn't allow it or something. anyway, I suppose you can cut and paste to get to the link and read it)

Here's a bit from the intro:



lunamoth

i know. i see stuff like that all the time. i freaked out when i went into one of the schools in Ft Lauderdale (to pick up one of the kids for a court case, never the less) & had to walk through metal detectors & was searched by cops.
Not all schools are like that.

i could not get the link to open either. hmmm

Look at the headlines. it is crazy stuff. Luna, I think we have just been conditioned in some bizzare way to think all this is normal.

• Iraq airstrikes kill dozens |

• FBI: Violent crime rate declines again

• Texas bus driver charged with negligent homicide

• Wilma becomes season's 21st named storm | Path

• Police: Wife of TV legal analyst slain |

• Stallone returning for sixth 'Rocky'

there should be a direct link somewhere.
http://www.cnn.com/