Interfaith as a Faith

[RubySera_Martin]

Of course there are many hundreds of thousands of such fundamentalist organisations eagerly waiting for the chance of a polite invitation to ‘interfaith’ (e.g. spread their somewhat coloured version of truth and light) with more trusting types.

Virtually all of these sort of highly intolerant groups are connected to the larger religious lobby organisations which in itself is quite a sobering thought! The forces of fundamentalism rely on public trust, gullibility and conditioning to survive.

I wonder, do you consider their particular views to be fair and balanced or "extreme"?

Bolo, I have done enough formal studying of fundamentalism to know that you are absolutely right no matter how offensive this truth is to some people. The part of your post that I made blue is something I didn't know and it is frightening.

Two years ago there were three hundred megachurches in the US alone, and the number was growing faster than scholars could count. For a congregation to count as megachurch, there have to be at least two thousand worshippers every week. Most megachurches have more like six to ten thousand worshippers per week. All the megachurch faith statements I read are fundamentalist. We are talking about serious numbers here.

These numbers are the underlying threat to our planet.

 

[neosnoia]

Interfaith with intolerant missionary forces that claim the total monopoly on truth is both ludicrous and amazingly silly!

Was it ludicrous and silly for someone to interfaith with me when I was a fundamentalist? I'm not anymore, and that is why. I'd say it's not a lost cause.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Was it ludicrous and silly for someone to interfaith with me when I was a fundamentalist? I'm not anymore, and that is why. I'd say it's not a lost cause.

Kay, you bring light with you. I've been thinking about this interfaithing thing. I used to be a fundamentalist, too, at least outwardly. I found it most frustrating that people interfaithed so much that they always just applauded our way of life and never shared their own views. The minute I left the church people started talking more honestly with me. It was as though they had not dared speak honestly before for fear of offending. I am glad one fundy was helped out of the trap by interfaithing. Thanks for brightening my day, Kay.

Ruby

 

[neosnoia]

You are very welcome Ruby.

I wasn't an easy sell. I was a pretty adamant person. I didn't want to hear anything I thought was "apostacy."

Time and patience and study and meditation won out.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Ruby, while you were posting here, I was posting what I thought might be something of interest to you on one of your threads on the LC board. I did not know you perceived me this way, or I would not have bothered you anymore, either. My sincere apologies.

InPeace,
InLove

Unfortunately, there is no forgiveness on this site. Brian tells me once we have posted something we have to take responsibility whether or not we apologize. Deleting a post is a form of apology. I deleted my post as a form of apology. He rejects it. I guess that applies across the board. Apologies don't count. People have been telling me it's the law of the jungle out there. I'm beginning to believe it.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

You are very welcome Ruby.

I wasn't an easy sell. I was a pretty adamant person. I didn't want to hear anything I thought was "apostacy."

Time and patience and study and meditation won out.

This tells me you're an honest person. You do your own thinking. A woman after my own heart.

 

[lunamoth]

Unfortunately, there is no forgiveness on this site. Brian tells me once we have posted something we have to take responsibility whether or not we apologize. Deleting a post is a form of apology. I deleted my post as a form of apology. He rejects it. I guess that applies across the board. Apologies don't count. People have been telling me it's the law of the jungle out there. I'm beginning to believe it.

Ruby, my olive branch is still extended, with my apologies for speaking from my unchecked emotions, rather than from someplace better in my heart. I am only human.

lunamoth

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Ruby, my olive branch is still extended, with my apologies for speaking from my unchecked emotions, rather than from someplace better in my heart. I am only human.

lunamoth

Thanks, Luna. I see you're in an impossible situation. Brian won't allow you to exonerate a person. You're between a rock and a hard place. It's not your fault. Sorry for the blasting. I'm human, too.

Ruby

 

[lunamoth]

Thanks, Luna. I see you're in an impossible situation. Brian won't allow you to exonerate a person. You're between a rock and a hard place. It's not your fault. Sorry for the blasting. I'm human, too.

Ruby

Thank you Ruby. However, don't be hard on Brian. I think he wanted to see us work this out, to allow both of us to see our words out there as the world sees them.

Peace, and looking forward to more fruitful conversations with you in the future,

luna

 

[RubySera_Martin]

However, don't be hard on Brian.

Not accepting an apology is unforgiveable.

There's more to that story than the world knows. I did NOT want to delete that post.

However, someone suggested via pm that it was not a good thing to post. I wanted to leave it up anyway. I was sure the edit had timed out.

It hadn't. So that excuse didn't work. I figured it was my civil duty to delete it.

Then I get blamed for all kinds of nasty things, not least of which is the accusation Brian levels at me for "pretending" I had not said it.

I am human and I think I have the right to be treated like one.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

Ruby, while you were posting here, I was posting what I thought might be something of interest to you on one of your threads on the LC board. I did not know you perceived me this way, or I would not have bothered you anymore, either. My sincere apologies.

InPeace,
InLove

I've just been on the LC section and I found nothing posted by you that was even remotely offensive to me. So either I didn't find it or I had no problem with it. Thought you might like to know that.

Ruby

 

[iBrian]

Hm, think I need to address a few points here:

Bolo, this is not in the least surprising. You ARE the enemy to fundamentalists. You point out their secret tricks. InLove doesn't like you doing that. It will hurt InLove's trade.

That's a pretty sad comment to make. You accuse "fundies" of all sorts of interesting discriminations, but you appear to have absolutely no problem applying them yourself.

I see pot calling kettle black here - all the more sad because InLove isn't even a kettle here...

Unfortunately, there is no forgiveness on this site. Brian tells me once we have posted something we have to take responsibility whether or not we apologize. Deleting a post is a form of apology. I deleted my post as a form of apology. He rejects it. I guess that applies across the board. Apologies don't count. People have been telling me it's the law of the jungle out there. I'm beginning to believe it.

Since when does deleting a post count as an apology?? It doesn't in the slightest. Again, you refuse to take responsibility for your words in the public domain.

If you want something to look like an apology try normal apologetic words such as "sorry" and "apologise", instead of just brushing it all under the carpet and then acting surprised that people felt hurt by your comments.

Not accepting an apology is unforgiveable.

Then I get blamed for all kinds of nasty things, not least of which is the accusation Brian levels at me for "pretending" I had not said it.

I am human and I think I have the right to be treated like one.

I think you also have the right to be treated as a grown up by acting like one.

All I see here is someone who thinks it's their right to lash out, then acts surprised when they're held to account for it.

I've done a lot to try and help you here Ruby, but at present it feels that you're simply throwing it all back in my face.

You complained about conservative Christians posting on the Liberal Christianity board - but had no problems then going to the Christianity board to tell the mainstreamers that they were deluded. You see anything ironic in that?

Do be aware that as a host for an multifaith site, I'm not going to take sides against anyone's personal belief, whether they're considered liberal or conservative or anything else. We have some great liberals here, and some great conservatives, and some great people who don't fit easily into any pigeon-hole.

But also be aware that if you feel you have to challenge the words of other people for their beliefs, then in all fairness they have every right to challenge your words, too.

ADDED: Also, I've removed the ability for members to delete their posts. Perhaps this will help people think more carefully about posting in anger, but if not, we'll simply have to work out the issues raised.

 

[kenod]

There does seem to be some rather divergent views on what is described as Christian fundamentalism. As one reviewer quipped, anyone to the right of Spong is a fundamentalist in some eyes; whereas for others, it means you blow up abortion clinics.

Fundamentalism is not about the way you behave, it is about what you believe ... I know, I'm one! The binding doctrine among the very different groups of fundamentalists is that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. We believe it is literally true, although it does also contain figurative language (eg Jesus sitting on the right hand of God).

So we believe in the virgin birth, the miracles, the resurrection, and so on. Some have claimed it is a new phenomenon when in fact it is what Christianity has embraced for most of the past 2000 years.

Whether fundamentalists are forceful in projecting their beliefs or not, says more about individual personality than it does about fundamentalism.

There is a belief that Jesus Christ is the Truth, and that other religions are not all equivalent paths to God. Personally, I agree with that, although I would add that an alternative path may be right for a particular person or group.

It seems that holding the view you have found The Truth is not very popular today. And God forbid that you should dare try to influence public policy ... eg, if you oppose same-sex rights you'll get called homophobic (not so long ago the gay lobby was complaining because they got called names ).

Should we respect individuals ... yes, of course we should ... but that does not mean we have to agree with them. Problem is, if you don't allow that every view is equally valid, you will get called disrespectful anyway

 

[arthra]

Hello Kenod

and welcome!

That "Spong" you mentioned in your last post would be "Bishop John Shelby Spong" I take it...

As a bona fide "fundamentalist" Kenod and someone whom I have never met before and with whom I have never conived with to set up any conspiracies..

I was curious about your feelings about particpating say in an inter-faith program... What would be your apprehensions if any... or any reservations...What are your ideas?

- Art

 

[RubySera_Martin]

ADDED: Also, I've removed the ability for members to delete their posts. Perhaps this will help people think more carefully about posting in anger, but if not, we'll simply have to work out the issues raised.

How I wish you'd had this insight two days ago. Then this whole nasty thing would not have happened. If you don't believe me go check what I said before you removed that function.

This is your site and it will be what you make of it. If you wish to betray confidences and post stuff from personal emails on the public forum, as you did with me, then so be it.

Feel free to delete my membership and everything I wrote. But understand that I am not sorry for anything I have posted and that it will be just fine with me if all my posts on this thread (including this one) remain.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

That's a pretty sad comment to make. You accuse "fundies" of all sorts of interesting discriminations, but you appear to have absolutely no problem applying them yourself.

Just so you know. That refers to the post I had deleted. You blasted me for deleting it. So I reposted to please you. Now you blast me again. Quite the hypocrite you are.

There's a reason why you lose some of your best thinkers. We didn't get to where we are by taking crap like this.

As I said, it's your site. It will be what you make it.

 

[iBrian]

Ruby, no confidences have been betrayed - there's a big difference between stating that you communicated with someone, and actually reposting private correspondence in public.

As before, I tried to help you and make you welcome - but you refuse to act responsibly, and simply continue your aggressive and abusive behaviour.

If that's what constitutes being among the site's best thinkers, then I'm truly glad that it's the one's who dare to be civil that we encourage to stay.

You can still do that, you know, but if you feel you can't accept basics of mutual respect and civility then perhaps CR really isn't for you.

 

[RubySera_Martin]

That's a pretty sad comment to make. You accuse "fundies" of all sorts of interesting discriminations, but you appear to have absolutely no problem applying them yourself.

I have absolutely no problem informing the world about the Number 1 threat of our planet. I can give you the evidence if you want it. You don't want it and I won't waste it on you. You wouldn't believe it if you saw it.

Many people are very blind. Right along with the rest of the world you will see it when it's too late. The sad thing is that people think if they kill the prophets things will be just fine. Unfortunately, the prophets perish with the populace. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

In case you don't know it, I am NOT a lone voice in the wilderness. Just take a look at all the new titles of studies on fundamentalism in the past five years.

This thing is
​

FOR REAL.
​

We are tolerant of beliefs so long as nobody gets hurt.
When the West goes down, so do we.
​

I am not speaking against any specific person. I had no intention to say this much. However, you accuse me falsely of a lot of stuff and refuse to believe it when I correct you. I have a point to make and I will make it. You can delete it if it bothers you. That's your business. It's your site. My point:

RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM IS
THE #1 ENEMY OF THE PLANET.
​

 

[iBrian]

Ruby, a question - why is religious fundamentalism the #1 enemy of the planet? Is it by any chance because of intolerence?

 

[bolo]

Sadly it would seem that some are quite incapable of seeing a wolf at the door – even when one gets its teeth into their flesh.

If we persist in alluding to ‘Christian fundamentalism’ then the fact is that the very first commandment ("I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me") runs in distinct opposition to all modern principles of democracy in our western establishments and is nothing but a sectarian declaration promoting religious dominance over other faiths. The principles of modern democracy were 'not' laid out in the bible, as some would like us to think, but by political theorists. In 1797 America made an agreement with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Sadly many modern fundamentalists fail to understand this and insist that it is a ‘Christian country’ – the same can be said for the UK which also contains countless persons and groups that promote such intolerant beliefs. They have no intention whatsoever of sharing the religious monopoly of these nations with others. Sadly a minority of more naïve types fail to appreciate these unfortunate facts as the somewhat negative responses on this thread have proved so well. I really do wish that the reality were different but it is not. History gives us explicit evidence that fundamentalism, of any ilk, first infiltrates then denigrates, defames, subdues and ultimately kills anything and anyone that stands in its way. We can either learn from this fact as responsible, truly caring adults and be vigilant or alternatively, like the proverbial ostrich (and some of the more credulous types), bury or heads in the sand and open the interfaith doors wide to well-versed and excellently funded smiling missionary fundamentalists that rely on our gullibility to gain a foothold into our realms. Fundamentalists are exceedingly clever and well trained and ‘mission’ to other faiths, via interfaith liaison, is high on their agenda. Various denomination continue to rip each other apart as one committed Christian will say – ‘Jews, Muslims etc need to hear the Gospel and come to the Lord,' whilst the more liberal – minded will say ‘No no’ and then be roundly accused by the fundamentalists of ‘not’ properly promoting their spriptural doctrine as indeed they are not according to biblical decree.

Go check out the sites yourself for so-called ‘Christian witness’ (that means ‘mission targets’) to: Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sheiks etc they are all there evaluating, correlating with each other under larger religious umbrella organisations and waiting to be given the opportunity to move in – all eager to share interfaith with nice trusting folk who are overtly innocent and do not realise what they are actually up to. It really is that straightforward my friends, yet a blinkered minority can not or perhaps ‘will not’ see it. The question is ‘why’ are some apparently so deaf and blind to these facts of life on this issue – why are they so terribly enthusiastic to throw us all to the wolves of missionary fundamentalism at interfaith and what exactly are their bona fide motives herein?

RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM IS
THE #1 ENEMY OF THE PLANET.

Spot on!

Ruby, yes you clearly have your head screwed on right and I am glad to see that at least one person is aware of these dangers.