The Narrow Gate

Originally Posted by Dondi
I would like to propose the notion that there are people in other religions who have found this narrow gate through their own understanding of God in the paradigm of their religion. Somehow, apart from Biblical knowledge, they have found the Love of God in their hearts and have known forgiveness of sins. I tend to think that in these cases the grace of God is evident in their lives. Though they don't know Christ according to knowledge, they know Him in their hearts. It does not diminish the fact that Christ died for them, it's just that they may not have sought God according to the Christian tradition, yet God knows their desire to know Him. That the Sacrifice of Christ is manifested to them, though they never have heard of Christ or perhaps heard wrongly about Him. Wouldn't you agree?
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Hi Dondi. Excellent post!! The OT talks about God and His love and mercy for mankind but only in the NT does God unravel the "mysteries" in the OT to show the followers of the Christ/anointed one, what one must do to gain Eternal Life in the Kingdom.

For example, how can one believe the Book of Revelation unless they also believe unto the Christ and Son of God, as it is written for His bondslaves. What does it mean to be "anointed" Kings and Priests of God? The "narrow gate" for Christ-ians is through the Christ/anointed one and Chief Shepherd, sent to Israel first [as "promised"], then to the World.
Steve

Here is a post I made on another forum for those interested:

http://newjerusalemministriesboards.com/showthread.php?t=180
The book of Revelation is a book that is written for kings and priests. It is not intended for the world to understand, neither will it be understood by carnal Christ-ians. To be a king-priest doesn't mean that we will strut around in splendid robes and all who meet us on the street will bow their heads and genuflect, acknowledging that we are great and mighty ones. God is not interested in carnal recognition, neither are those to whom is given the kingly spirit and the priestly nature. At the very outset the book is addressed to a peculiar class of people: "[The] revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His bondslaves things which must shortly come to pass" ...............

Revelation 1:6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him [be] glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, `Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.'

Luke 18:31 Then He took the twelve aside and said toward them, "Behold!!, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things having been written through the prophets about the Son of the Man shall be being accomplished.[#5055] telesqhsetai <5055> (5701) {SHALL BE ACCOMPLISHED}

Revelation 1:18 and HE who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
 
InChristAlways said:
Hi Dondi. Excellent post!! The OT talks about God and His love and mercy for mankind but only in the NT does God unravel the "mysteries" in the OT to show the followers of the Christ/anointed one, what one must do to gain Eternal Life in the Kingdom.

For example, how can one believe the Book of Revelation unless they also believe unto the Christ and Son of God, as it is written for His bondslaves. What does it mean to be "anointed" Kings and Priests of God? The "narrow gate" for Christ-ians is through the Christ/anointed one and Chief Shepherd, sent to Israel first [as "promised"], then to the World.
Steve
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Hi InChristAlways!

I must admit, you have me scratching my head on this one.

My point was to merely suggest that God's grace extends farther than we might expect.

Let's take an American Indian (or Native-American, if you prefer). Before the white man came with his Christian bible, the American Indians worshipped "The Great Spirit" who created them and all life. As young boys, they go on a "vision quest", an experience which is intended to to guide and shape his life in the community. They employ a spirtual guide (angel?) to help them in their quest. They believe in ceremonial rituals of renewal and the afterlife. They have spiritual healers or medicine men.

So in the Native-American paradigm, they have a limited understanding of God, but they do believe in God and have a system to improve their lives in the traditions and moral code of their tribe and counsel. The underlying factor is that they have a responsibility toward God and to each other. Now there are good Indians and bad Indians. Not that being merely good qualifies them, but if such a one seeks "the Great Spirit" in their heart and seeks to love "The Great Spirit" and his fellow brother, does not this fulfill the love of God as described in the Bible?
 
Originally Posted by InChristAlways
Hi Dondi. Excellent post!! The OT talks about God and His love and mercy for mankind but only in the NT does God unravel the "mysteries" in the OT to show the followers of the Christ/anointed one, what one must do to gain Eternal Life in the Kingdom.

For example, how can one believe the Book of Revelation unless they also believe unto the Christ and Son of God, as it is written for His bondslaves. What does it mean to be "anointed" Kings and Priests of God? The "narrow gate" for Christ-ians is through the Christ/anointed one and Chief Shepherd, sent to Israel first [as "promised"], then to the World.
Steve
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Hi InChristAlways!

I must admit, you have me scratching my head on this one.

My point was to merely suggest that God's grace extends farther than we might expect.

Let's take an American Indian (or Native-American, if you prefer). Before the white man came with his Christian bible, the American Indians worshipped "The Great Spirit" who created them and all life. As young boys, they go on a "vision quest", an experience which is intended to to guide and shape his life in the community. They employ a spirtual guide (angel?) to help them in their quest. They believe in ceremonial rituals of renewal and the afterlife. They have spiritual healers or medicine men.
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Hi Dondi. I understand, and have a deep respect for those of other religions and beliefs and their views of a Supreme Being and afterlife, but since this topic is on the Narrow Gate in christianity, and only those of the faith that is of Jesus the Christ can one enter it, how do we explain to other religions what is meant by that? Is not the Savior of the World prophecied as coming all the way back to Genesis?

I brought it up because the book of revelation is the Last Bookend of the Christ-ian Bible and is only meant for those that believe unto the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, and I often wonder what it is about that Book that draws disbelief of it, especially from Judaism and Islam for example, both of whom read the OT and look to Jerusalem as a "holy city" of the OT.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Revelation 1:18 "I [am] He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

God is not interested in carnal recognition, neither are those to whom is given the kingly spirit and the priestly nature. At the very outset the book is addressed to a peculiar class of people: "[The] revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His bondslaves things which must shortly come to pass
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"
 
InChristAlways said:


I brought it up because the book of revelation is the Last Bookend of the Christ-ian Bible and is only meant for those that believe unto the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, and I often wonder what it is about that Book that draws disbelief of it, especially from Judaism and Islam for example, both of whom read the OT and look to Jerusalem as a "holy city" of the OT.
"
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Hi InChristAlways,

I'm not a Biblical scholar, not even in an ametuer way, but I do not think that Revelation was written last of all the books of the NT. Rats, I'm sure the info is somewhere in this forum but I don't remember where. I'm not sure why it was chosen to bookend the cannon except perhaps because as Apocalyptic writing it is quite different from the Gospels and Epistles.

As for what draws disbelief from Judaism and Islam, well, Judaism is easy: it does not recognize Jesus as the Messiah so why would it look for His return? Islam, I think, recognizes Jesus as a prophet and looks for His return, but does not regard the writings of the Bible as free of error and so looks to the Quran instead for the signs of His coming.

2 c and take them with a grain of salt :) ,
lunamoth
 
Dondi, I can certainly see where you're coming from, and I'm right there with you. But I can also appreciate your point, InChristAlways, and recognize that you're asking this questions in context.

Just remember, not every Christian interprets the statement about the Narrow Gate in the same way. Pretty much every spiritual teaching anticipates an avatar, savior, messiah, or redeemer. Each religion has its own soteriology. There may be differing teminologies and layers of complexity involved, but Christ was by no means the only Redeemer who stated, "I am the Path!"

To reduce His statement, and the Buddha's, and those of other Saviors (all representing One Truth, I trust) ... to purely human pronouncements ... is to fail to discern the still small voice of God - amidst human Babylon. So, the narrow gate, I think, is there for a Muslim, there for a Jew, there for a Hindu, and there for a Native American (interesting how religions and ethnicities start to blur). It has to do with how we live our life - the Spirit of the one Law of Love, and not the letter.

For the Christian who thinks Christ was the only one to say, "I am the way," you might try reading the Mahavagga I, 7-9. In these verses, Lord Buddha, the Blessed One, says,
"I have overcome all foes; I am all-wise; I am free from stains in every way; I have left everything; and have obtained emancipation by the destruction of desire. Having myself gained knowledge, whom should I call my master? I have no teacher; no one is equal to me; in the world of men and of gods no being is like me. I am the holy One in this world, I am the highest teacher, I alone am the Absolute Sambuddha; I have gained coolness (by the extinction of all passion) and have obtained Nirvana. To found the Kingdom of Truth I go to the city of the Kasis (Benares), I will beat the drum of the Immortal in the darkness of this world."
​
And for clarification, in response to Upaka, who said, "You profess then, friend, to be the holy, absolute Jina," the Buddha responded,
"Like me are all Jinas who have reached extinction of the Asavas; I have overcome all states of sinfulness; therefore, Upaka, am I the Jina."
​
Jina, or the victorious One, is one of the many appellations common to the founders of Buddhism and Jainism. Asavas are sensuality, individuality, delusion, and ignorance.

Think about what the Buddha said, and the basis for his claim (you will need to try to understand what "extinguishing the asavas would imply," and how this corresponds to what the Christ taught - since the parallel is unmistakable). He did not say he was the first to acheive this, nor the only one! He did not say others would not follow. And for me, because there is Universality in the Buddha's message, and because this difficult path is nevertheless one we can follow ... Christ's message is all the more valid. And the narrow gate, though difficult, can be entered. Otherwise, we are wasting our time. The carrot on the stick - is not how a God of Love, Truth, and Honesty/Openness ... would operate. ;):)

Cheers,
protokletos
​
 
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Revelation 1:18 "I [am] He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
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Dondi, I can certainly see where you're coming from, and I'm right there with you. But I can also appreciate your point, InChristAlways, and recognize that you're asking this questions in context............

....... spiritual teaching anticipates an avatar, savior, messiah, or redeemer. Each religion has its own soteriology. There may be differing teminologies and layers of complexity ;) involved, but Christ was Just remember, not every Christian interprets the statement about the Narrow Gate in the same way. Pretty much everyby no means the only Redeemer who stated, "I am the Path!"
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Thank you for you thoughts taijasi.
But as a Christ-ian, I must also harmonize the Christian NT to the OT prophecies.

One of them is the book of Daniel and concerns the nations of OC Israel/Judah/Jerusalem whom God promised to bring a New Covenant/heaven and earth to. [Jeremiah 31]

Michael is also mentioned in the Christian NT [and Hebrew OT], and also mentions a "manchild" being born and taken up and later shown as a slain Lamb. Of course both Daniel and the christian book of Revelation are highly divine and symbolic, and why it is sometimes difficult to interpret them, so I can only go by what the Bible Scriptures are telling me when I am reading it.

Note the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel upon his people and city leading up to Daniel 12 and the Time of the End.

Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called his sons and said, "Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy 7's , have been divided concerning thy people and thy holy city--to put an end to the transgression, and fill up the measure of sin, and put a propitiatory-covering over iniquity, and bring in the righteousness of ages, and affix a seal the vision and prophecy, and anoint the holy of holies......... Daniel 12:4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the Time of the End; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

The Slain Lamb represents the Gate being opened for those that believe unto the Name/Nature of Jesus the Christ our Lord and Savior [as us Christ-ians believe].
Reve 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals." 6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes,
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Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, [Even] to that time. And at that time your people shall be saved, Every one who is found written in the book.

Reve 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to Shepherd all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. ................7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
 
I might also add that the Buddha's statement:

"I have overcome all states of sinfulness; therefore, Upaka, am I the Jina."

Means he has passed through the Narrow Gate -

But again the Christian would reply - Christ IS the Incarnation of that Gate, and the Buddha has done precisely what Christ said was necessary.

Scripture states that Christ did not overcome sin, he was born without sin (unlike the Buddha).

Buddha attained Enlightenment - Divine Knowledge (and Being),
Christ is the Divine Incarnate.

Thomas
 
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Revelation 1:18 "I [am] He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
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Thomas said:
I might also add that the Buddha's statement:

"I have overcome all states of sinfulness; therefore, Upaka, am I the Jina."

Means he has passed through the Narrow Gate -

But again the Christian would reply - Christ IS the Incarnation of that Gate, and the Buddha has done precisely what Christ said was necessary.

Scripture states that Christ did not overcome sin, he was born without sin (unlike the Buddha).

Buddha attained Enlightenment - Divine Knowledge (and Being),
Christ is the Divine Incarnate.

Thomas
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Thank you for that enlightening post as those of the righteousness of Abraham ["father of Multitudes"] are also considered to pass through the narrow Gate, correct?.

Our NT also mentions "overcoming" to the end.

John 12:48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him -- the Word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Reve 19:12 His eyes [were] like a flame of fire, and on His head [were] many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Jesus [pbuh] was sent to the jews and Israel first as prophecied in the OT. Just as the Apostles [pbut], including Paul[pbuh] were sent out to spread His Word of Life, so do those In Christ today spread those same Words of Life to others, especially "unbelievers" of the Father/Creator, who believe they have no "hope" after death, and increase Knowledge of Him.
Daniel 12: 4 And thou, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied.'
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God promised Israel and the world that He would send the Lord in the flesh to make a New Covenant with them. I consider myself True "Jew" because I accept the new covenant of the Blood of the Passover Lamb, the One that was prophecied to come to the Jewish Nation for Salvation and put an end to Sin.

Jeremiah 31:31 " Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah --

Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the Covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
lunamoth said:
Both of these are part of the Sermon on the Mount, which to me is the nucleus of Jesus' teachings. A lot of times the idea of the narrow gate is used along with the acceptance of Jesus as Saviour and Son of God, i.e., only those who 'believe' in Jesus are entering the narrow gate (which in turn is associated with heaven in the afterlife). But, the placement of this sentence in the Sermon might imply that the narrow gate is following all of these teachings, perhaps most simply summed up in the second quote above, the *hardest* teaching of all, to love your enemies.

I don't mean to limit the idea of the narrow gate to just applying the teachings of the Sermon to one's life. I'm guessing that some people might think this means I believe you can work your way to heaven (I don't). But, maybe Jesus was talking about earthly life, and the narrow gate is how difficult it is to love each other in the here and now. The Gate is the Way, and Jesus is the key?

What do you think? What is the meaning, are the meanings, of the Narrow Gate?

lunamoth
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Hmmm, from a strictly logical and secular point of view, to keep to the narrow path in the forest is wise. It has been passed by others before, to the point where it is clearly marked, and leads to a destination that is desired.

However, to wander from the clear narrow path, is to subject oneself to getting "lost" in the wild where dangerous things can cross our way.

Walking the narrow path is not heaven (though the goal at the end is heaven). It is the journey to our destination. It is maintaining a tight discipline of our lives, not subjecting ourselves to "wandering all over for a way home". We know the true way (inside), yet we tend to try this or try that, experiment with this or that, get lost in this or that. We keep searching for a better way, when the tried and true way is straight ahead and clearly marked.

As far as loving one's enemies. This is such a simple but profound truth. Again from a secular and logical perspective, it is impossible to remain enemies with one who consistently treats you with respect, regardless of what you do or say. Like begets like.

History is rift with such encounters between "enemies", who later became allies. The strongest allies we have, are often enemies, we once won over.

Why? because when we consider one an enemy, we have strong feelings for them. They matter to us for one reason or another. That is simply a matter of heart. Change the heart and the status of enemy becomes ally.

When we consider one as nothing, then that is dangerous, for we have no feelings for that one. That is contempt. Contempt is worse than having an enemy.

As a strange but valid point, I submit the domesticating of the dog and the cat. Prior to domestication, these two were the enemies of the livestock keeper. Hatred for the predator abounded. However, in time the livestock keeper noticed things about the enemy that he admired. And realized if he could turn those attributes to his advantage, he would not only have a friend, but a loyal protector of the very livestock that was threatened.

After the WW II, the United States (soley), took upon itself the rebuilding of Germany and Japan (hated enemies, and beaten into submition). But that wasn't good enough. We saw attributes in those people that we admired. And we knew we wanted them as allies (we never wanted to have to fight them again). We didn't want their land, nor their servitude. We wanted their respect (the respect of equals). So, we treated them (slowly but surely), as our equals, as people with dignity.

Those people had to get past their own revulsion, let alone our initial "contempt". But we helped, because our own sanity prevailed, and we looked at them as humans, not slaves, or garbage.

We hate the Nazism, not the Germans at large, the Imperialism, not the Japanese at large. We learned to hate the desease, not the ones suffering from it.

I think that is what Jesus meant by loving one's enemy.

v/r

Q
 
In his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." (Matthew 7:13, 14) The Bible explicitly states that there is "one faith." (Ephesians 4:5) Clearly, many who are on the "broad" road have a religion. But they do not have the "one faith." Since there is only one true form of worship, those who desire to find that true faith will have to seek it out

 
mee said:
In his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." (Matthew 7:13, 14) The Bible explicitly states that there is "one faith." (Ephesians 4:5) Clearly, many who are on the "broad" road have a religion. But they do not have the "one faith." Since there is only one true form of worship, those who desire to find that true faith will have to seek it out
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Jesus first appealed to the Jews (of which He was one), which are of a certain religion, and then gentiles, who had a myriad of religions. The Old testament shows God appealing to men of many different religions. The "faith" God is looking for is the faith in the One God, supreme Creator of all things.

He could care less about our religions. It's our hearts, minds and souls He is interested in. Man does not turn man towards God, God does that all by Himself. ;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Jesus first appealed to the Jews (of which He was one), which are of a certain religion, and then gentiles, who had a myriad of religions. The Old testament shows God appealing to men of many different religions. The "faith" God is looking for is the faith in the One God, supreme Creator of all things.

He could care less about our religions. It's our hearts, minds and souls He is interested in. Man does not turn man towards God, God does that all by Himself. ;)

v/r

Q
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"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you."—JAMES 4:8.

 
Quahom1 said:
LOL, God needs no invite from Man. He choses...
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true , and then the holy spirit directs his messengers to the right place:) to give them accurate knowledge:D
 
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