john1;1-2

E99 said:
Hello Quahom1

To get to this point first....Apologies. I'm sorry that you took this the wrong way, I did not mean that your work is shoddy, It is not at all, but that your reference qouted was shoddy. Your posts are always challenging, informative and obviously you have good understanding of Russian etc. (My Russian is nearly non existant.)


I state the previous also because I showed your post relating to the Russian language, to a Russian lady that works for us. In her own words she said..." He is Rrrrusshan..........He must be Rrrrusshan ! "


Thanks, but only in heart. And please give this note to your Russian associate:

"Большое спасибо, нежно женщина. И может мир бога быть с вами."

Дима

'Tis' a thank you for her kindness. ;)

The 'shoddy' comment I made was because I was suprised that you picked a source that I think is shoddy, (and illogical,) one where the quoted article tried to say that the Greek word 'tis' usually translated as 'any' could have been used in the third clause of John 1:1, where realistically it could not be used.

We can tackle the original Greek, if you wish...if sticking to the 'original' text is more comfortable with you...I'm not too shabby with that either. ;)

Whatever, this is neither here nor there. These are translations. Do you believe in Timothy 3:16 ? ..."All scripture is inspired of God." We have to get to the source. The original language.

That would be a bit difficult, since John spoke Aramaic, and there doesn't seem to be anything written about the Gospel in that language. So I guess we're stuck with Greek.


Your Quote:
"where is "...and the Word was a god"?

From the only language that should really concern us ...The original one that man was using at the time of the writing. The language that God utilised by inspiring the writers he used at that time, and Greek so happened to be the main language used in the scriptures at the time of John 1:1. (Not forgetting the concept of a singular God derived from the translation from Hebrew in the OT.)

Would it really have been an alien concept for John to have known that the word logos was a god, a divine being, and not the one and only true God, merely because we think that there was no specific way to grammatically apply this indefinate article in writing in Greek ? Realistically there was a way to grammatically put this sense over ? The way of not using the definate article 'the' in the third clause, and leaving it out to indicate to those that lived at the time that the sense of a divine being was indeed being shown. Anyone from that time, if they lived today would wonder what all the fuss is about, and give us the true sense of what John was saying to us.


Then let us contend with the original Greek and tear it apart to see what it said. I can't describe how up I am for this endeavor. :D Obviously I like languages, eh? Actually, I like accurate communication. It helps us slip into the mind of the communicator, when we understand where he or she is coming from. Then we can see through their eyes...would you agree?

Oh, I think in time you might not find the article 'tis' so illogical to use, after all, but then...who can say? ;)

Thanks for your thoughts.

v/r

Q

Edit: Ask your friend if she would have said "Человек убил", or "OH Душегуб" ?

And while she was saying that, was she picturing the "killer" in her mind, and did her face show emotion? Again, you asked her to translate her native tongue into English, but I opine much was lost in the translation, because english speakers are not used to tone, inflection, inuendo's so subtle the tick of the tongue at the end of a word would be missed, but not to the native of the language. A variation of the tongue curled on one sylable, changes the whole meaning of a thought.
 
Last edited:
Hello Thomas



Sorry for the late reply. You ask a good question.





Your quote:

If, as some suggest, the translation should read 'a God' and not simply 'God', is John then not preaching polytheism?





No, not really, he is only recognising polytheism, because he would be recognising that yet another divine being 'a god' existed, as much as he would have recognised any of the number of 'divine beings' found in the OT.





Many of the early Christians and OT Jews must have had a good knowledge of divine 'supernatural beings' from their understanding and learning of the scriptures, as many of them studied the scriptures daily. Jehovah’s witnesses have been, by their claim to be monotheistic, accused of being polytheistic and henotheistic, but extending our monotheistic belief in one God to the belief in a multitude of gods is not wrong, or polytheistic if we believe the obvious, the recognition of their existence... Other false gods existed in ancient history...Dagon, Zeus, Artemis etc, and other divine beings such as the angels e.g. Gabriel, cherubs and seraphs in the scriptures, just as John would have recognised this same fact, and similarly he possibly believed 'a god' the word, as another divine being, and a divine being of the highest importance in the sense that John 1:1 seems to show.





Polytheism is not defined by the recognition of ‘gods’ only, but I think that it is defined more so by believing in them as true supreme gods or a supreme multi faceted god, to the point of WORSHIPPING those other gods, like the Romans and Egyptians did. We worship only the one and true God Jehovah....Monotheism.

Monotheism is only a relatively recently coined word from koine Greek: monos: alone, single, one and theism 'god' + ism... belief.





If we look at 2 Corinthians 4:4 we notice that the devil is called a god. It reads :

" Among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. Believing that he exists, but not worshipping him.







The bible is littered with gods, false ones and divine beings, the scriptures state that there is one God and others could be called gods. Psalms 82:6 "I myself have said, ‘you are gods,' And all of you are sons of the Most High."







There are many scriptures referring to one true God: Gen 5:22,24 Job 1:6 Dan 1:2,9,17 etc. Gods word does say that you must be careful who you give worship to. Remember the occasion where John prostrated himself to do worship to the angel that was sent by God, It illustrated that we must be cautious, it is the one and only true God that we must worship. John fell down to do worship to one of Gods angels, a divine being sent to him at Revelation 22:8-9:

"Well, I John was the one hearing and seeing these things. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that had been showing me these things 9: But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who are prophets and of those who are observing the words of this scroll. Worship God.”









 
The Watchtower Society needed a bible to conform to their doctrines, and so they created one. The "translation" was done by a five-member committee in Brooklyn, New York. Four of these men had a highschool education only, with no Hebrew or Greek knowledge at all. The fifth man, Fred. W. Franz, although claiming to know Hebrew and Greek (without credentials), while under oath in a Scottish Court of Law, failed a simple Hebrew test. He was a college sophomore dropout, and lied about being offered a Rhodes Scholarship. The Society refuses to name their translators, and prefers to be anonymous and "humble"!

No reputable scholar will endorse this "translation"

"In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." (New World Translation).

Following are comments by some of the experts in the field of Biblical languages:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It may interest you (and others here following this subject), that most all of the above scholars' claims have been addressed. This can be found as a link entitled "In Defense of the NWT - John 1:1 Files," on my website, which can be found by going to w w w dot goodcompanionbooks dot com.

Although it may be quite cumbersome to read thru it all, I do believe it does at least demonstrate that, simply because such opposition towards the New World Translation can be found, there are, on the other hand, any number of Jehovah's Witnesses who are more than willing to provide a similarly, well researched, well thought out scholarly response, that is, to such well intentioned yet ill-conceived opposition.

I thank you for the opportunity you have afforded me to provide a reply to what might have, otherwise, caused some to question the accuracy of Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation.

Agape.
john1one@earthlink.net
Search for: goodcompanionbooks on Google.
 
youre telling me that I have to buy the book to see the comments refuted? no thanks :)

No, you needn't "buy the book to see the comments refuted."

Apparently you either didn't read what I had written or what I did write wasn't clear - see again:

"It may interest you (and others here following this subject), that most all of the above scholars' claims have been addressed. This can be found as a link entitled "In Defense of the NWT - John 1:1 Files," on my website, which can be found by going to w w w dot goodcompanionbooks dot com."

Agape.
john1one@earthlink.net
Search for: goodcompanionbooks on Google.
 


I've searched the entire Bible, for one word to indicate that Jesus is sub-equal to God,. ;)

v/r

Q
[/font]
Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) We should believe Jesus, for he surely knew the truth about his relationship to his Father. The apostle Paul also knew that God was superior to Jesus, and he said: "The Son [Jesus] himself will also subject himself to . . . God." (1 Corinthians 15:28) This is further seen in Paul’s statement at 1 Corinthians 11:3: "The head of the Christ is God." Jesus acknowledged that he had a superior God when he said to his disciples: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God."—John 20:17.
Never did Jesus claim to be almighty God himself. Any impartial reading of the Bible without preconceived ideas about the Trinity will verify that. For example, at John 3:16, Jesus said: "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son." Just two verses later, Jesus again said that he was "the only-begotten Son of God." (John 3:18) When the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy, he answered: "Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?" (John 10:36) Jesus did not say that he was ‘God the Son’ but that he was "God’s Son."

 
John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.


John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."


John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.


John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."


John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Luke 5:20-21 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." 21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"




John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


John 17:10 [Speaking to the Father] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
 
John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.


John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."


John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.


John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."


John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Luke 5:20-21 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." 21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"




John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


John 17:10 [Speaking to the Father] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
John14;7-10
7 If YOU men had known me, YOU would have known my Father also; from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him."

8
Philip said to him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."​

9 Jesus said to him: "Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.
I and the Father are one."John 10;30
Or, "at unity." Lit., "one (thing)." Gr., hen, neuter, to show oneness in cooperation.
Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe on account of the works themselves John 14;11
If I am not doing the works of my Father, do not believe me. 38 But if I am doing them, even though YOU do not believe me, believe the works, in order that YOU may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father .John 10;37-38
Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are. John 17;11 yes unity of purpose works wonders................. and even though the Jews thought wrong things about Jesus , Jesus himself said inJohn 10;36
do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son? Jesus never taught that he was God ,he taught that the father is greater than he was. and he had great aurthority on the earth .the false religious leaders thought many things ,but they were wrong about those thoughts .( now that rings a few bells)
So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was .John 17;5 yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah before the world was . Jesus was the only one created by Jehovah alone , he was the only-begotten , John 3;16
I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth. 9 I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those you have given me; because they are yours, 10 and all my things are yours and yours are mine, and I have been glorified among them.John 17;6-10 yes the sayings that Jehovah gave to Jesus ,jesus inturn gave them to his followers.which inturn leads his followers into unity of purpose. yes as John 17;11says
Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are. ......... yes Jesus followers are in unity of purpose just as Jesus was in unity of purpose with his father
(John 17:21) in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.

 
What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT:

.....

Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

.....

For the saake of balance,

Thomas

Yes, 'for the sake of keeping balance,' although I am of the opinion that each of the above evaluations of the New World Translation could be effectively addressed, I would like to touch upon just one of the scholars you listed, Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar. With respect to the redendering of John 1:1c within Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation as, "and the Word was a god," you had quoted him as saying, "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

A bit more of the quote in context might be of interest to some here:

"The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect [Jehovah’s Witnesses] is seen in their New Testament translation. J[oh]n i1 is translated: 'Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god,' a translation which is grammatically impossible….It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest." - "The Expository Times." (Edinburgh, Scotland: T. & T. Clark, v. 1-, Oct. 1889-), vol. 65, October, 1953. BS410 .E8 / 54-43327 r82.

And yet, although within the above he states quite emphatically, "'and the Word was a god,' a translation which is grammatically impossible," it is important to note that, some years later, in a letter written to a Mr. David Burnett, Australia, dated May 20, 1974, Barclay had apparently changed his mind on this, that is, by stating:

"You could translate, so far as the Greek goes: 'the Word was a God.'" - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Ever Yours; A Selection From the Letters of William Barclay. Rawlins, Clive L. (b.1940-d.?), Editor. (Dunbar, England: Labarum Publications, 1985).
ISBN: 0948095040.

In explaining this a bit further, Barclay had offered this example in another of his works:

"An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, 'The preacher is the man,' I use the definite article before both preacher and man, and I thereby identify the preacher with some quite definite individual man whom I have in mind. But, if I say, 'The preacher is man,' I have omitted the definite article before man, and what I mean is that the preacher must be classified as a man, he is in the sphere of manhood, he is a human being." - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Jesus as They Knew Him. (New York, New York: Harper and Row, 1962), pp. 21, 22.

And yet, if we were to just put in place of "preacher" and "man" the words "Word/Jesus" and "god," along with a few other adjustments, consider how this very point might have otherwise read:

"An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, 'The Word/Jesus is the god,' I use the definite article before both Word/Jesus and god, and I thereby identify the word/Jesus with some quite definite individual god whom I have in mind [in this case, Almighty God]. But, if I say, 'The Word/Jesus is god,' I have omitted the definite article before god, and what I mean is that the word/Jesus must be classified as a god, he is in the sphere of godhood, he is a godlike being."

Perhaps this is in some part the reason why it is little known that Barclay had also later admitted this view:

"It is not that Jesus is God. Time and time again the Fourth Gospel speaks of God sending Jesus into the world. Time and time again we see Jesus praying to God….Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God." - William Barclay - A Spiritual Autobiography. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1975), pp. 49, 50. BS2351 .B28 A37 1975 / 73-76528.

Interestingly, with respect to the Greek of John 1:1c, a number of other Biblical scholars have admitted the same as Barclay:

"…, from the point of view of grammar alone, κα θες ν λγος [from John 1:1c] could be rendered ‘the Word was a god’…” – Harris, Murray J. (b.?-d.?). "Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus." (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 60. BT216 .H37 1992 / 92-30780.

“[John 1:1c] could also be translated: ‘the Word was a god’ or ‘the Word was divine.’ Grammatical considerations alone fail to decide the question, since all three translations [including the common, “and the Word was God”] can be defended on grammatical grounds.” – Loader, William R. G. (b.1944-d.?). The Christology of the Fourth Gospel: Structures and Issues. vol. xxiii [23] of: Beiträge zur Biblischen Exegese und Theologie. (Frankfurt am Main; New York; Paris: Verlag P. Lang, c1989), p. 156. BT198 .L57 1989 / 89-12453. 2nd Revised Edition (Frankfurt am Main, Germany; New York, New York: P. Lang, c1992), p. 155. BT198 .L57 1992 / 92-19502.

"Grammar alone cannot prove how the predicate in this verse [John 1:1c] should be translated, whether ‘God’ or ‘a god.’" – "The Catholic Biblical Quarterly." (Washington, D.C.: Catholic Biblical Association of America, vol. 1-, Jan. 1939-), vol. XIII [13], no. 4, October 1951. BS410 .C3 / a40-000163.

So again, instead of being "grammatically impossible," Christendom's Trinitarian scholars give evidence of an important agreement, that it is, indeed, quite possible to render John 1:1c as, "and the Word was a god"; and thus, this rendering is not "intellectually dishonest."

Agape, Alan.

[1 Tim. 2:5]
 
Yes, 'for the sake of keeping balance,' although I am of the opinion that each of the above evaluations of the New World Translation could be effectively addressed, I would like to touch upon just one of the scholars you listed, Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar. With respect to the redendering of John 1:1c within Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation as, "and the Word was a god," you had quoted him as saying, "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

A bit more of the quote in context might be of interest to some here:

"The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect [Jehovah’s Witnesses] is seen in their New Testament translation. J[oh]n i1 is translated: 'Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god,' a translation which is grammatically impossible….It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest." - "The Expository Times." (Edinburgh, Scotland: T. & T. Clark, v. 1-, Oct. 1889-), vol. 65, October, 1953. BS410 .E8 / 54-43327 r82.

And yet, although within the above he states quite emphatically, "'and the Word was a god,' a translation which is grammatically impossible," it is important to note that, some years later, in a letter written to a Mr. David Burnett, Australia, dated May 20, 1974, Barclay had apparently changed his mind on this, that is, by stating:

"You could translate, so far as the Greek goes: 'the Word was a God.'" - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Ever Yours; A Selection From the Letters of William Barclay. Rawlins, Clive L. (b.1940-d.?), Editor. (Dunbar, England: Labarum Publications, 1985).
ISBN: 0948095040.

In explaining this a bit further, Barclay had offered this example in another of his works:

"An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, 'The preacher is the man,' I use the definite article before both preacher and man, and I thereby identify the preacher with some quite definite individual man whom I have in mind. But, if I say, 'The preacher is man,' I have omitted the definite article before man, and what I mean is that the preacher must be classified as a man, he is in the sphere of manhood, he is a human being." - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Jesus as They Knew Him. (New York, New York: Harper and Row, 1962), pp. 21, 22.

And yet, if we were to just put in place of "preacher" and "man" the words "Word/Jesus" and "god," along with a few other adjustments, consider how this very point might have otherwise read:

"An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, 'The Word/Jesus is the god,' I use the definite article before both Word/Jesus and god, and I thereby identify the word/Jesus with some quite definite individual god whom I have in mind [in this case, Almighty God]. But, if I say, 'The Word/Jesus is god,' I have omitted the definite article before god, and what I mean is that the word/Jesus must be classified as a god, he is in the sphere of godhood, he is a godlike being."

Perhaps this is in some part the reason why it is little known that Barclay had also later admitted this view:

"It is not that Jesus is God. Time and time again the Fourth Gospel speaks of God sending Jesus into the world. Time and time again we see Jesus praying to God….Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God." - William Barclay - A Spiritual Autobiography. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1975), pp. 49, 50. BS2351 .B28 A37 1975 / 73-76528.

Interestingly, with respect to the Greek of John 1:1c, a number of other Biblical scholars have admitted the same as Barclay:

"…, from the point of view of grammar alone, κα θες ν λγος [from John 1:1c] could be rendered ‘the Word was a god’…” – Harris, Murray J. (b.?-d.?). "Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus." (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 60. BT216 .H37 1992 / 92-30780.

“[John 1:1c] could also be translated: ‘the Word was a god’ or ‘the Word was divine.’ Grammatical considerations alone fail to decide the question, since all three translations [including the common, “and the Word was God”] can be defended on grammatical grounds.” – Loader, William R. G. (b.1944-d.?). The Christology of the Fourth Gospel: Structures and Issues. vol. xxiii [23] of: Beiträge zur Biblischen Exegese und Theologie. (Frankfurt am Main; New York; Paris: Verlag P. Lang, c1989), p. 156. BT198 .L57 1989 / 89-12453. 2nd Revised Edition (Frankfurt am Main, Germany; New York, New York: P. Lang, c1992), p. 155. BT198 .L57 1992 / 92-19502.

"Grammar alone cannot prove how the predicate in this verse [John 1:1c] should be translated, whether ‘God’ or ‘a god.’" – "The Catholic Biblical Quarterly." (Washington, D.C.: Catholic Biblical Association of America, vol. 1-, Jan. 1939-), vol. XIII [13], no. 4, October 1951. BS410 .C3 / a40-000163.

So again, instead of being "grammatically impossible," Christendom's Trinitarian scholars give evidence of an important agreement, that it is, indeed, quite possible to render John 1:1c as, "and the Word was a god"; and thus, this rendering is not "intellectually dishonest."

Agape, Alan.

[1 Tim. 2:5]



nice one :)and that is very honest of you to put that up here .

its good to get things right inline with what the bible REALLY teaches.


it puts us on the right track and i like 1 timothy 2;5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,
 
its good to see that the whole of the bible harmonizes, when JOHN 1;1 is translated in the right way.



In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. NWT

Jesus—A Godlike One; Divine
Joh 1:1—“and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)”
Gr., καὶ θεὸς ἦν λόγος (kai the·os′ en ho lo′gos)

 
John​



1:1, 2:

This website gives a pretty good alternative view of this scripture.


look at the site onlytruegod dot org/defence/john1.1c.htm







RS
reads: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." (KJ, Dy, JB, NAB use similar wording.) However, NW reads: "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God."



Which translation of John 1:1, 2 agrees with the context? John 1:18 says: "No one has ever seen God." Verse 14 clearly says that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us . . . we have beheld his glory." Also, verses 1, 2 say that in the beginning he was "with God." Can one be with someone and at the same time be that person? At John 17:3, Jesus addresses the Father as "the only true God"; so, Jesus as "a god" merely reflects his Father’s divine qualities.—Heb. 1:3.



Is the rendering "a god" consistent with the rules of Greek grammar? Some reference books argue strongly that the Greek text must be translated, "The Word was God." But not all agree. In his article "Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 and John 1:1," Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in John 1:1, "with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos." He suggests: "Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’" (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Thus, in this text, the fact that the word the·os´ in its second occurrence is without the definite article (ho) and is placed before the verb in the sentence in Greek is significant. Interestingly, translators that insist on rendering John 1:1, "The Word was God," do not hesitate to use the indefinite article (a, an) in their rendering of other passages where a singular anarthrous predicate noun occurs before the verb. Thus at John 6:70, JB and KJ both refer to Judas Iscariot as "a devil," and at John 9:17 they describe Jesus as "a prophet."



John J. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.’"—(Brackets are his. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.) (New York, 1965), p. 317.





In harmony with the above, AT reads: "the Word was divine"; Mo, "the Logos was divine"; NTIV, "the word was a god." In his German translation Ludwig Thimme expresses it in this way: "God of a sort the Word was." Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as "a god" is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6 human judges in Israel were referred to as "gods" (Hebrew, ’elo·him´; Greek, the·oi´, at John 10:34) because they were representatives of Jehovah and were to speak his law



look at onlytruegod dot org

This website gives a pretty good alternative view of this scripture.​
 
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