Christians converting to Islam and Judaism

I

InChristAlways

Guest
I found something rather disturbing in this article that a relative emailed me today.

Are Christ-ians really that "confused" on the NT Scriptures and Jesus's Words of worshipping God in Spirit and Truth, that they have to desert Christ for another religion? I am really "perplexed" about this and hoping to get some answers concerning this article.

Are there any on this forum that are former Christ-ians that have left Christianity to turn to other religions and if so, I would like to hear from them on why they made that choice. I don't want to turn this thread into a "debate", but informational. Peace
Steve

http://www.washingtonpost.com/?nav=pf
Among Evangelicals, A Kinship With Jews
Some Skeptical of Growing Phenomenon
By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 8, 2006; A01

............Julie Galambush, a former American Baptist minister who converted to Judaism 11 years ago, has seen both sides of the divide. She said many Jews suspect that evangelicals' support for Israel is rooted in a belief that the return of Jews to the promised land will trigger the Second Coming of Jesus, the battle of Armageddon and mass conversion.................

The Southern Baptist Convention, to which the Tabernacle belongs, passed a resolution in 1867 calling on its members to convert Jews and renewed that call as recently as 1996. Its former president, Bailey Smith, declared in 1980 that "God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew," and it currently supports about 15 congregations of messianic Jews, who are popularly associated with the organization Jews for Jesus.
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I would first like to say that I was born a Muslim but it was my family who made me a Christian just like you inchristalways you are also a born Muslim.

Are Christ-ians really that "confused" on the NT Scriptures and Jesus's Words of worshipping God in Spirit and Truth, that they have to desert Christ for another religion?
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I disagree with this I think the people who stay Christians are the confused ones. I say this because most young Christian don't read the Bible they just believe what the pasters say.
 
Yaqinud Din said:
I would first like to say that I was born a Muslim but it was my family who made me a Christian just like you inchristalways you are also a born Muslim.

I disagree with this I think the people who stay Christians are the confused ones. I say this because most young Christian don't read the Bible they just believe what the pasters say.
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Thank you for the post. But this thread is mainly about those who were raised christians but turned to other religions. I was born and raised Catholic but turned "apostate" when I joined the military in 1968 and stayed that way up to about 3 yrs ago.
I believe in the inspriration of the whole NT including the Book of Revelation, so I look at Christ as the Son/Lamb of God and my Redeemer. Thank you again for your response.

Acts 13:29 and when they did complete [#5055] all the things written about Him, having taken [him] down from the tree [#3586], they laid him in a tomb [#3419];

Last verse in NT with the word for "tree":

Revelation 22:14 `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree [#3586] of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

xulon (Strong's 3586) occurs 19 times in 17 verses: 3586. xulon xoo'-lon from another form of the base of 3582; timber (as fuel or material); by implication, a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance:--staff, stocks, tree, wood. 3582. xestes xes'-tace as if from xeo (properly, to smooth; by implication, (of friction) to boil or heat); a vessel (as fashioned or for cooking) (or perhaps by corruption from the Latin sextarius, the sixth of a modius, i.e. about a pint), i.e. (specially), a measure for liquids or solids, (by analogy, a pitcher):--pot.
 
Thank you for the post. But this thread is mainly about those who were raised christians but turned to other religions. I was born and raised Catholic but turned "apostate"
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Yes I know what the thread is about I was raised as a Christian most of my family are Christians I grow up in what you would call a good Irish Christian home.
 
Yaqinud Din said:
I would first like to say that I was born a Muslim but it was my family who made me a Christian just like you inchristalways you are also a born Muslim.


I disagree with this I think the people who stay Christians are the confused ones. I say this because most young Christian don't read the Bible they just believe what the pasters say.
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an assumption on your part that is, in error. Most young Muslims could rightfully be said to say the same thing...

Shall we entertain this thought further?;)

v/r

Q
 
Let me point out something that is so imperative and yet so ignored.


NO ONE CAN MAKE ANYONE, ANYTHING, You are who you are, by your choice. YOU CHOOSE how YOU will live and lead, or follow.

GOD, THE SUPREME GOD promised us that in the beginning. We choose, and hence live by our choices...

v/r

Q
 
Originally Posted by Yaqinud Din I would first like to say that I was born a Muslim but it was my family who made me a Christian just like you inchristalways you are also a born Muslim.
Are Christ-ians really that "confused" on the NT Scriptures and Jesus's Words of worshipping God in Spirit and Truth, that they have to desert Christ for another religion?
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I disagree with this I think the people who stay Christians are the confused ones. I say this because most young Christian don't read the Bible they just believe what the pasters say.
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Quahom1 said:
an assumption on your part that is, in error. Most young Muslims could rightfully be said to say the same thing...

Shall we entertain this thought further?;)

v/r

Q
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As much as I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, the fact that a poster said Christ-ians are "confused" because we do not read the Bible, I assume the poster was talking about the whole Bible from Genesis through Revelation in the Christian Bible, and this is the Bible I am talking about. Do Christ-ians only read just "parts" of it :confused:
Steve

Acts 13:29 and when they did complete [#5055] all the things written about Him, having taken [him] down from the tree [#3586], they laid him in a tomb [#3419];

Last verse in NT with the word for "tree":

Revelation 22:14 `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree [#3586] of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;
 
Shall we entertain this thought further?;)
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Yes lets because I'm around both being a Muslim myself and also having a Christian family I talk with both young Muslims and young Christians and from what I have seen the Christians know very little about the bible Infact the Muslim young people seems to know more about the Bible then the Christians. I believe if more Christians read the Bible less would be Christian this is just my view.

I would also say only about 15% of the young Christians I know can tell me how the Trinity works And I'm being nice saying 15%

I'm going by the people I know.

Well this will be my last post because I don't want the thread to become a debate maybe this can be a thread on its own.
 
2 Thessalonians 2

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 
InChristAlways said:
As much as I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, the fact that a poster said Christ-ians are "confused" because we do not read the Bible, I assume the poster was talking about the whole Bible from Genesis through Revelation in the Christian Bible, and this is the Bible I am talking about. Do Christ-ians only read just "parts" of it
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From my own perspective, I think the answer has to be "yes" - I've met a lot of Christians online, and have been very surprised how many have never read the Bible.

I noticed it especially in the UK - people who seem to have decided that feelings of spirituality can only come from Jesus, therefore turn to Christianity, and develop a Christian faith that is effectively based on what they are told Jesus stands for from other Christians, and what they feel is right.

Although they'll read bits of the NT (usually Gospels), in conversation, lots of them held it as an ideal for them to actually read all of the Bible one day. As a non-Christian who had actually read everything except Psalms when younger, I found it a curious juxtaposition.
 
Post # 2: Are Christ-ians really that "confused" on the NT Scriptures and Jesus's Words of worshipping God in Spirit and Truth, that they have to desert Christ for another religion?
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quote Yaqinud Din: I disagree with this I think the people who stay Christians are the confused ones. I say this because most young Christian don't read the Bible they just believe what the pasters say.
Yes lets because I'm around both being a Muslim myself and also having a Christian family I talk with both young Muslims and young Christians and from what I have seen the Christians know very little about the bible Infact the Muslim young people seems to know more about the Bible then the Christians.

I believe if more Christians read the Bible, less would be Christian, this is just my view.:confused:

I would also say only about 15% of the young Christians I know can tell me how the Trinity works And I'm being nice saying 15%
I'm going by the people I know. Well this will be my last post because I don't want the thread to become a debate maybe this can be a thread on its own.
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Originally Posted by InChristAlways As much as I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, the fact that a poster said Christ-ians are "confused" because we do not read the Bible, I assume the poster was talking about the whole Bible from Genesis through Revelation in the Christian Bible, and this is the Bible I am talking about. Do Christ-ians only read just "parts" of it
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quote I,Brian: ...Although they'll read bits of the NT (usually Gospels), in conversation, lots of them held it as an ideal for them to actually read All of the Bible one day. As a non-Christian who had actually read everything except Psalms when younger, I found it a curious juxtaposition.
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Greetings I,Brian. May I add that if a Christ-ian does not read the whole Bible, they could eventually "fall away" into disbelief as I have seen happen many times and perhaps it has to do with the way evangelicals preach or maybe they get drawn to "endtime" books outside the Bible.

In my humble view, the Christ-ian Bible is completely harmonized from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation, and with 66 books, that appears to be more than enough to elimnate any contradictions or "falseness", unless one is just looking for them [though translation is equally important].

Take for example just the passages below and we have to remember, there were no super computers back when this book was written, and that is even more astounding to me and why the Bible must be taken as a whole and not bits and pieces. The book of revelation has 7 blessings in it for those that read it and we are told we are "blessed" if we read it and take it to heart, whether we can "comprehend" it or not.
Reve 22:7 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed [#3107][is] he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."
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Thank you for your post and I would still like to hear more from those that turned away from Christ and the Bible to either other religions or to Atheism. Peace.
Steve

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity [#0342] Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel."

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up,...

Reve 12: 7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his messengers fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his messengers fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.... 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. [size=+2]
[/size]
 
I was raised in a Christian family, Episcopalian, not super-zealous but my mom has always been a quietly conistent church-goer with increasing participation as we kids got older and time permitted (she says she retired to the three G's, golf, gardening and God).

I drifted into agnosticism/secularism rather than deconverting from Christianity. I don't think that reading the Bible cover to cover would have done anything to make me a Christian. In fact, I remember that my one attempt to read it cover to cover on my own left me rather angry. I've since gained a better historical and sacramental perspective on the Bible, which has lead me back to its study. However, the idea that the Bible dropped from the sky as one intact Book written by God, much as the Koran is viewed, is not part of my beliefs.

In my view, the consistencies throughout the Bible from OT to Rev (and I know it is not ordered chronologically in the edition I ususally read) reflect that it is an unfolding of the Story of God's relationship with humans, and vv. It is God-inspired and God-protected (to me meaning that what we have is sufficient and trustworthy and sacred, even when inconsistencies are apparent). I also think that there is much more than one meaning to its various passages--it's the Living Word. Anyway, that's my current view of the Bible.

I did convert to another religion for about five years--the Baha'i Faith. You may know from this forum that the Baha'i Faith teaches the unity of all religion, a belief that I still hold in my own way. I'm not sure exactly what happend in my life to make me turn back toward God, I know some of the parts of it of course, but if someone had told me in 1998 that I would be a 'believer' by the end of the next year I would have rolled on the floor laughing. I joined the Baha'i Faith not to leave Christianity, which I did not reject so much as just drift away from, so I had no bad experiences from which I was running. I fell in love with the teachings of the Baha'i Faith that so clearly express that we are to love one another, free ourselves from prejudice and work toward world peace. Anyway, the Baha'i Faith teaches that Christ returned in the Manifestation of the Person Baha'u'llah. Similar to Islam the Baha'i Faith teaches a progressive unfoldment of religion so that the OT was supplanted by the NT supplanted by the Koran now supplanted by the Baha'i Writings. Supplanted is not the best word perhaps because the BF recognizes that much of the message of each of these Scriptures is the same, that we should love God and love one another.

Anyway, as I learned more about the BF I became terribly disillusioned over some important things. The best I can say now is that I don't understand who Baha'u'llah was, his writings certainly reflect a lot of the Christ Spirit but I came to the conclusion that the Baha'i Faith as a religion is not something I could fully give my heart to. I still respect the Baha'i Faith and find inspiration in it's writings, and there is much love and Spirit in the Baha'is I know.

So, now I've made a more conscious decision to be a Christian and I am very thankful for the Episcopalian tradition I was born into. Not an unquestioning acceptance but a thoughtful embrace, and a relationship with God through Christ that continues to grow and deepen.

peace,
lunamoth
 
InChristAlways said:
Greetings I,Brian. May I add that if a Christ-ian does not read the whole Bible, they could eventually "fall away" into disbelief as I have seen happen many times and perhaps it has to do with the way evangelicals preach or maybe they get drawn to "endtime" books outside the Bible.
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I might add some fall away into disbelief from studying the Bible too much. There was mention of Jew for Jesus. There is also a group called Jews for Judaism whose intent is to bring back Jews who have converted to Christ by appealing to the Jewish perspective of the Messiah. They claim that many of the "proof" passages supporting Jesus as the Messiah are unfounded or misrepresented. There have been extensive articles written that seem pretty convincing. Also, there are many biblical scholars who have varying degrees of belief about the Bible, whether it is inspired by God and to what extent that inspiration shoud be taken, even if it is inspired at all.

Muslims also have a body of sources used to refute the Bible in favor of the Qu'ran. Many of these go to great lengths to point out "contradictions" in the Bible.
 
Beautifully said, Lunamoth. Beautifully spoken.

I'll say that the only reason why I have not converted to another religion is because in other religions I see the truth of Christianity. In the book of Acts and thereon, it's all political - Paul encouraging the Churches to remain in faith throughout the adversity that Christians faced during that time. When it became that Christians could publicly worship, we act like no one else should have the right to worship they do. It began with the Crusades. Today's current events has made me a believer in the Revelation.

Seeing that Jesus was a Jew I don't understand why it would be a problem for the Christian to convert to the root. You'd be surprised how what we are initially taught never really leaves us if we are true to ourselves. I happen to believe that the Christian who converts to Islam has chosen to divert much more of his devotion unto the one supreme being and notion, and not be all wrapped up in the chain of command.

It is arrogance that shuns Judaism and Islam.
 
Beautifully said, Lunamoth. Beautifully spoken.

I'll say that the only reason why I have not converted to another religion is because in other religions I see the truth of Christianity. In the book of Acts and thereon, it's all political - Paul encouraging the Churches to remain in faith throughout the adversity that Christians faced during that time. When it became that Christians could publicly worship, we act like no one else should have the right to worship they do. It began with the Crusades. Today's current events has made me a believer in the Revelation.
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quote Dondi: There is also a group called Jews for Judaism whose intent is to bring back Jews who have converted to Christ by appealing to the Jewish perspective of the Messiah. They claim that many of the "proof" passages supporting Jesus as the Messiah are unfounded or misrepresented.

I might add some fall away into disbelief from studying the Bible too much.
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Hi Dondi.
I have never heard of that before but it could be true.

Cannot one read the Bible without "studying" it, and still get the message that God brings across to those that believe unto Him.
Perhaps too many "study" the Bible by reading too many "outside sources" and historical sources? Just a thought.

As far as the jews are concerned that you brought up, Paul also warned in his epistles of not giving heed to"jewish fables", and these are his words not mine.

Why would he put that "warning" in there or is that a "interpolation"? [and no, I am not being "anti-jewish"]. Jesus was, biblically, a True Jew.
Steve

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish [#2451] fables [#3454] and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
 
Thank you, truthseeker. I find it an interesting coincidence that you, Dondi and I all used (and you both still use) the same eagle avatar.

cheers,
lunamoth
 
truthseeker and lunamoth....

great posts regarding how research and growth allows one to find their path....how disallusionment can lead to enlightemnent.
It is arrogance that shuns Judaism and Islam.
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can I hear an amen! I also believe that the religions all have similar source and opportunity, but also have issues with and am greatful for the bahai...

very good stuff...imho
 
InChristAlways said:
Cannot one read the Bible without "studying" it, and still get the message that God brings across to those that believe unto Him.
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There are some things that are in plain view and there are some things that are hidden. There are some who accept what is in plain view and there are some who also aim to shed light on the things that are hidden. One can read the Bible without "studying" it. As a matter of fact, why don't we just make it a sitcom?
As far as the jews are concerned that you brought up, Paul also warned in his epistles of not giving heed to"jewish fables", and these are his words not mine.[/Quote]
What are the Jewish fables? You will come to an understanding
by reading too many "outside sources" and historical sources
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Some of us ask questions and some of us are just reading and reading and don't know what we are reading about. Afraid to ask questions for fear of leaning to our own understanding. There are those of us who believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, which needs no further understanding; and there are those of us who seek a deeper meaning.
 
by reading too many "outside sources" and historical sources
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Some of us ask questions and some of us are just reading and reading and don't know what we are reading about. Afraid to ask questions for fear of leaning to our own understanding. There are those of us who believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, which needs no further understanding; and there are those of us who seek a deeper meaning.
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Hi Truthseeker and thanks for that. This is mainly about Christians leaving the Christians Faith for any number of reasons.

I myself will never comprehend the Bible in my lifetime and just by reading through the book of revelation for example, I can see the whole Bible itself in that one Book, much like I view the whole NT in the little book of Jonah, but yet I read them to understand the deeper meanings of the rest of the Bible and strenthen both my Faith and understanding of God.

Islam does not believe in the book of revelation or Paul's epistles as inspired, even though it is a fulfillment of the OT and NT prophecies, whether past, present, future, ongoing and revelation also depicts the Lamb of God/Son of God in it, as does the Gospels.

Do I look down on Islam and Judaism because of this? Of course not!!! If I would have been raised a muslim or jew, I probably would not look at revelation or Paul's epistles as being inspired either.
I hope to hear from others on reasons for leaving Christianity for other religions other than not understanding or believing in the NT as inspired Scripture. Peace.
Steve
 
InChristAlways said:
Hi Dondi.
I have never heard of that before but it could be true.

Cannot one read the Bible without "studying" it, and still get the message that God brings across to those that believe unto Him.
Perhaps too many "study" the Bible by reading too many "outside sources" and historical sources? Just a thought.

As far as the jews are concerned that you brought up, Paul also warned in his epistles of not giving heed to"jewish fables", and these are his words not mine.

Why would he put that "warning" in there or is that a "interpolation"? [and no, I am not being "anti-jewish"]. Jesus was, biblically, a True Jew.
Steve

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish [#2451] fables [#3454] and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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I'm not talking about "Jewish Fables" here. Indeed there were "Jewish fables" floating around, as evident in the Apocropha, but I'm talking about a scholarly exegesis of Old Testament scriptures. Maybe the "outside sources" you infer have to do with the Talmud and Midrash, which are really rabbinical commentaries of the OT. Are you saying that these sources are blinding the eyes of the Jews as to the truth of the Gospel?

Don't Christians often rely on outside sources and historical documents? Shouldn't we study archeology and history in order to gain a proper perspective of what 1st century Jerusalem was like? Shouldn't we, as Christians, approach the New Testament with a Jewish mindset in order to understand the thinking of the common Jew who would be hearing the teachings of a radical Rabbi who says some profound things and performs healings and miracles not seen since the times of the Old Testament patriarchs?

What Jews for Judaism is doing is trying to get those Jews who have come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah to take a step back and look at who the Messiah really is, according to Jewish teachings. I've read how many of these Jewish converts are not well bred in the Old Testament scriptures. So concequently, when someone from Jews for Judiasm come and show from the OT what Jews believe about the Messiah, some Messianic Jews revert back to Judiasm. This occurs not because of a lack of scripture, but as a result of increase familiarity with scripture.
 
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