reincarnation

Bandit said:
i am just curious, taijasi...do you believe that everyone has had more than one life?
& are you seeing this reincarnation as a process that continues forever?
i have heard many say that we have millions & millions of lives, which i find rather hard to believe & dont see any purpose behind that...so, i just want to see where you stand with it.
Yes, and no, Bandit, in that order.

I do believe ... that Reincarnation is a subset of the 2nd Great Law governing all of Cosmos. My understanding and belief, is that every being in Cosmos is subject to this Great Law, although its various sub-laws are increasingly transcended, as we gain experience. This, however, is the Law of Love, and therefore our effort is to learn more and cooperate with this Law governing our existence, and not to fight it. It's lowest expressions, or the ones which keep ultimate order down here on planet Earth (and all planets in outward expression) ... includes Cause & Effect - As ye sow, so shall ye reap; As ye mete it out, so shall it be meted out unto you - or Karma, in the East, with the twin Doctrine of Rebirth, or the method by which all souls are destined to attain, and are called toward perfection.

As such, I do not believe that any Entity, whom & which is manifest in Cosmos, is "free" of that Law of Love, in an ultimate sense, but one does accomplish, on higher & higher turns of the spiral, always answering more fully and with greater success, to the outstretched arm of Deity. Thus, relative to Earth, and eventually to any planet in outward, physical expression, we do stop incarnating. The relative number of lives may depend per entity, varying certainly for those of other evolutions - or Humanities of other planets - but even here on Earth it can vary. Many, many souls (3/5ths) are presumed to have begun their evolution as Humans only some ~18 million years ago, on this planet. Even during that time, not every cycle, phase, or period of evolution would have been productive, or conducive for a given soul to incarnate, therefore, at most, perhaps a few thousands, or at best tens of thousands of lives, might have been lived. The actual number, is almost irrelevant. We may consider 99% of them as sealed to us, for all intents & purposes. To recover them, whether through PLR, or other means, may be considered as a great misfortune. :(

Why? Because they represent our evolution as "animal-men," and would only be revolting to us now - not helpul in any way! The Soul is concerned only with the most recent cycle of lives, often in a series of 7, and also with preparations for its next incarnation or two. And clearly, its immediate focus, in outward terms, is the present incarnation, although esotericists try to bear in mind that relatively speaking, the "portion" or the Soul's awareness (which is misleading, since the nature of Soul consciousness is itself wholistic & Unifying) ... the "portion" which is directed on the outward personality, might be considered 1% - of it's true and total awareness. The Soul is itself understood to be undergoing a different evolution entirely, on one of those higher turns of the spiral - still technically subject to "incarnation" or Rebirth. The nature of its incarnation, however, though the embodiment of Sacrifice and Love, from our perspective ... is such that for the Soul, there is no suffering as we know it, nor separateness, nor anger, hate, confusion, delusion, or any of the woes we know of in the "three lower worlds" of mortal existence. The Soul has long ago attained, via human incarnation on long-past planets (in some cases in prior Solar cycles) ... to Immortality, and is relatively Perfect, from our point of view. It is already what esotericists call a Master, and thus it is said, truly, that the Soul and the Master are one.

And that is why it is also spoken of as the "Christ principle," or the Christ within. Its goal, which is much more inclusive than simply assisting us, which is not even required of it, but is only a willing sacrifice, is to attain yet a higher form of freedom, by compliance with Spiritual Will - and when we have attained to a certain great expansion of consciousness (the one to which Jesus attained, and St. Paul after him, at the "Conversion") - upon that attainment, the Soul is said to "leave us," and assume the Higher Way of evolution. It leaves the planetary realm altogether, never to return. Even for those who sacrifice and stay, the Masters of esoteric teachings, Earth Service is not permanent. It is but a willing sacrifice, the trading of one's earned Nirvana - the most blissful "heaven" we could conceive - for ... sighhh. For endless toil, until enough of Humanity are able to assume the ranks of Co-Stewardship of the planet.

The Buddha, for example, has all but left connection with the Earth, and exoterically He is said to have taken his Maha-Para-Nirvana (beyond the Great - Nirvana). But esoterically, He is said to return each year at the Wesak Festival, as He has done for hundreds of years, to give His Blessing to the Christ and Assembled Host. The entire 8-minute ceremony is so potent and the Blessing is so great, that this is all that the assembly can withstand of His tremendous force - and it remains with us for an entire year, being carefully distributed to those who are receptive ... and stepped down accordingly. But this will not go on forever, and will soon cease, the moment Christ's Reappearance is an established fact.

And so, too, our cycle of lives is said to end, as early as the arhat stage (Jesus, St. Paul, countless others), if we so choose. But that is not our goal. Nor is full Buddhahood, although that might be required in a distant cycle. Eventually, all are destined for that. Our goal on this planet, is said to be somewhere in between, and technically the last 2 or 3 lives that are required to reach that Liberation/Salvation - are voluntary. But if we think of them as the proverbial icing on the cake, why would we even imagine not completing the cycle??? Short answer - because already, as an arhat, one has attained to the Nirvanic bliss - and that Peace which Passeth Understanding, as a permanent state. Not every Soul is prepared, or at that moment, capable, of withstanding the call to enter into Bliss. And to enter it is fine, since the Soul a such - is able to move on, and continue its Higher evolution, while we enter Nirvana ... and emerge only later, in order to complete the cycle. The choice made by our Souls was to do so not by direct incarnation, as it were, but by "loaning us" a portion of themselves - by directly providing their "Christ Principle" to us, until our own Christ Princple could be awakened & developed ... which is our immediate attention. This is beyond intellect, although Higher Mind is where the Soul focuses, since it is by this means that we approach the Divine.

The simplest answer to your question ... is a symbolic teaching presented 150 years or so ago. It was said that we have a total of 777 symbolic incarnations - not literal. Of these, the first 700 might be thought of as outwardly focused, and deal mostly with physical evolution, and survival. This can be considered the Hall of Ignorance. For the next 70 lives, our focus shifts to the level of the emotions, and is still exceedingly self-centered, yet our interests become more cultural & broadened, as we traverse the Hall of Learning. The final Seven lives, which can literally be seven, or perhaps twice that many, are called the Hall of Wisdom, and here the Soul learns Love, and Service. We focus on others, and realize that our existence as a separated individual is the Great Illusion. We focus increasingly on the purpose & nature of our existence, and an entire reorientation towards life begins to take place. At this point, once either chooses or rejects the opportunity to greatly hasten one's spiritual evolution, and if one is capable of making the extreme sacrifices necessary, and living a life of utmost discipline, strictest purity, and selfless service to others, then eventually, esoteric training can begin.

Nevertheless the Goal of our evolution, is considered as one & the same for all souls. It is only a question of when, not whether. And another thing, esoterically there are 60 billion human souls, not 6 billion. Obviously then, only 1/10th are presently in incarnation, although I've read an account of beings from other worlds where the population density was dozens of times greater than it is here. The difference? The were very closely knit within each other's lives, and their Communities - in which everyone lived - were like the most intimate of families. Isolation was unknown to them, and their lives were governed by the utmost in efficiency. Perhaps, one day, that is our future, as well. Not, I trust, in the next few hundred years ...

There's my essay of the day. :p You know what they say, ask a simple question ... (get a gosh-awful long answer!). bah. It's just one of the most fascinating - topics, or themes of our existence. Couldn't resist ...

cheers,

andrew
 
taijasi said:
Yes, and no, Bandit, in that order.

I do believe ... that Reincarnation is a subset of the 2nd Great Law governing all of Cosmos. My understanding and belief, is that every being in Cosmos is subject to this Great Law, although its various sub-laws are increasingly transcended, as we gain experience. This, however, is the Law of Love, and therefore our effort is to learn more and cooperate with this Law governing our existence, and not to fight it. It's lowest expressions, or the ones which keep ultimate order down here on planet Earth (and all planets in outward expression) ... includes Cause & Effect - As ye sow, so shall ye reap; As ye mete it out, so shall it be meted out unto you - or Karma, in the East, with the twin Doctrine of Rebirth, or the method by which all souls are destined to attain, and are called toward perfection.


There's my essay of the day. :p You know what they say, ask a simple question ... (get a gosh-awful long answer!). bah. It's just one of the most fascinating - topics, or themes of our existence. Couldn't resist ...

cheers,

andrew

ummm. ok. that short/long essay just short circuited me.
I BELIEVE:D ...if you believe that way, then you should be allowed to believe like that.
have a nice weekend:)
 
Hmm, How would you explain the cells in Hitler or Stalin? If your premise is true, we could eliminate all the thousands of wars that have gone before. The question I have for you is God Holy? The second question ... What happened to the world and what happened to man to get us in this situation? If this spirit is always in all of us ... something really went wrong ... What happened?
 
gteeter said:
Hmm, How would you explain the cells in Hitler or Stalin? If your premise is true, we could eliminate all the thousands of wars that have gone before. The question I have for you is God Holy? The second question ... What happened to the world and what happened to man to get us in this situation? If this spirit is always in all of us ... something really went wrong ... What happened?
Stalin & Hitler presumably both had a very great challenge before them, as individual souls, since obviously they were tasked with a very heavy karma. The opportunity was provided to work for their own spiritual betterment, and for the betterment of those around them. They would seem to have fallen short - of that challenge. :(

Sadly, Hitler went very far astray, and my own understanding is ... that just as some individuals demonstrate extreme positive spiritual potential, and are even able to incarnate certain Divine Ideas and Ideals ... so also, is the reverse true. Not only did planetary evil come to obsess, and literally possess Hitler, but evil forces that should not have even found expression upon our planet became focused through him, and his inner circle. This was most unfortunate, and was very nearly disastrous to Earth's entire material evolution. As an esotericist, I do not believe in "Divine Intervention" as such. And yet, the events that led to the Allied Powers prevailing in WWII, are said to be exactly that - unexpected Divine Assistance, in a manner that was totally unforseen. Yet perhaps, and presumably, this was due to the aid being received by the Axis Group, from sources of energy that should not have been tapped. That Door needed to be closed, and so it has.

We cannot eliminate wars until enough of our Human family learns the needlessness of it all, and can see from experience that living a life of peaceful cooperation is possible (and necessary, for a sustainable society). As of yet, too few Souls have taken a stand, esoterically speaking. The world is still swayed, and outwardly ruled, by the power-mongers, and those of separative, greedy attitudes.

I believe that God is Holy, as is every atom of His Creation. While on the one hand it is not ours to judge, we are nevertheless intuitively able to discern that the Divine manifests itself in various grades, or degrees. The atom represents the Divine Life in perfect latency, although on its on level, the manifestation is complete (or can be, for certain types of the most highly evolved atoms! - a circular definition, I realize). I believe that life evolves through the mineral, vegetable, animal, Human, and Spiritual Kingdoms, thence onward - through Infinity. Increasingly, the Divine Life awakens, knows itself, first as individuals, then via groups, and then as a Unity which only widens. Synthesis occurs, yet never is the true self lost, for it is like the proverbial carrot on the stick, and we are drawn onward, deeper & deeper within.

Yes, I do agree, our spiritual (and material) evolution is off track. As esotericists say, the Plan is as yet, not fully restored, on Earth. But it is increasingly being restored. And we are very, very close to reaching some of the goals that are immediately before us. In order to understand where things got off track, you would need to be more specific in your question. How far back do you wanna go? :p

Seriously though ... a Christian might answer, Original Sin, and in those two words, feel that enough has been said. I have never bought that, and long, long ago I explored the subject in enough depth to find answers that were much more helpful - for me. My answers have not changed over the years, but I have certainly learned more, added to my understanding, adjusted my perspective many times - often letting go of what no longer served a useful purpose in my thinking ... and thus I now have a much more synthetic understanding, though perhaps more questions than ever! And to me, that's a good sign! :)

Short answer, in case this might make some sense: I believe that Humanity erred considerably during Atlantean times. Several million years ago, we strayed from the Divine Plan which God intended for us, becoming selfish, materially-focused, vain, and quite self-righteous. The priesthood and leaders of the time, failed in their appointed task, and even though our Divine Guides literally walked openly among us ... we came to shun them. This might be seen as ironic, yet it was due to a "clogging" of our spiritual perceptions, which were very emotionally-focused, and lacked as yet the balancing faculties of Intellect. For a long time, the Spiritual Stewards of the the race continued to assist us, but eventually they were forced to withdraw into the Inner Worlds. There, they remain, and I've been working on a post to the Esoteric forum on The Elder Brothers of Humanity, which says more about this.

I believe that our Elder Brothers have always been with us, from pre-Atlantis, unto the present day. In fact, They are in the very process of Reappearing, or Externalizing, many having taken physical incarnation, and many gathering their groups of disciples on the physical plane - which is something that has not been possible to this degree for perhaps a million years. Coincident with the Externalization of the Spiritual Brotherhood (which is also a Sisterhood, the term isn't meant to be sexist) ... is also the Reappearance of the Christ, and the Restoration of the Mysteries. We are seeing this occur, and the Christ's Reappearance can even be said to be in the latter stages, viewed esoterically.

All of these events, including the transiting of our planet out of the sign of Pisces and into Aquarius (an astronomical fact, and not simply an astrological idea), are assisting us tremendously, in terms of our spiritual evolution at this time. New energies, some of which have never reached our planet - ever! - are entering on spiritual levels, and also on material levels. There is tremendous upheaval, yet much of this can be understood as the Father's Broom, sweeping the floor in preparation, to speak in Christian terms.

And great change, is imminent! Not looked for, in terms of some sudden event, or miraculuous translation of people - or even conditions, but rather ... as evidenced in the stimulation of the Will-to-Good, of the principle of Unconditional Love, and Brotherhood, as felt among people worldwide in increasing degree, and in a rapid awakening to the idea that Humanity has a Purpose, which includes every single evolving soul therein, and yet which also transcends Humanity, embracing the entire Planet, with all its Kingdoms of Life, as One! Millions of people across the globe will attest to this, each in his or her own way, yet the realization, and the increasing sense of expectancy, is Universal.

Part of the Great Invocation, which millions of people use worldwide as Christ's own Prayer, goes thus:
From the center which we call the race of men,
Let the Plan of Love and Light work out,
And may it seal the door where evil dwells.

Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.
Now one does not need to follow any particular spritual tradition to use the Great Invocation. It has been used worldwide by people of all faiths, backgrounds, and religious traditions, for more than 60 years ... and has been translated into nearly 75 languages. I consider it a very practical form of Service which we may render - to speed the coming of the World Teacher (by whatever name we may call Him).

If the question is asked - was it during Atlantis that Humanity got off track from the Divine Plan, my understanding would lead me to answer, no. Even prior to that, many millions of years ago, there was a conflict that was beginning to affect Humanity, which was not yet present in this cycle before that time (~18 million years ago). But only in Atlantean times did the deepest incarnation of the Human Race as a whole, occur. We have now passed that midway point, and are rapidly moving closer to safety. But, we aren't out of hot water yet ... and thus the great need at present. [One can trace the root of planetary evil to a prior Maha-Manvantara, or Great cycle of Earth's evolution, while systemic evil is certainly belonging to another Kalpa, or a previous Solar Cycle. This is a bit much to go into ... ]

I think part of the difficulty, in considering that our evolution is off track, is that it tends to imply that somehow God is flawed, imperfect, and quite fallible - prone to signficiant mistakes. This is certainly not meant, from the human perspective, but we tend to conceive of the Divine in human terms, as you have even pointed out. It is difficult not to anthropomorphize. I think that is why Hylozoism takes a little getting used to ... the notion that God, too, Incarnates. We are indeed, like cells within the body (the brain) of God. The other Kingdoms are other parts of His body, the Spiritual Stewards of the Planet are His Heart, and God the Father, as the Christian refers to Him, is focused within the Head, the center of Will. So vast a being, as I have come to understand God ... is really not outwardly focused in His awareness. To an extent, yes, but ask yourself - how much attention do you normally pay, to the coordination of your brain, let alone the various (individual) cells therein? Any? Some? None? All likely answers, but most of us just grab a good cuppa joe, and go! ;) Or maybe we meditate (so does God), and maybe we try to eat a healthy diet, and get good rest. So does God.

Do you talk to your individual brain cells? ahem ... :p There you have it.

Things are really not so off track. This is something that we can ofttimes overlook, or understandably - yet mistakenly - conclude, as we see the imperfect world around us. But immense changes are underway, and Earth will not always be a planet torn by wars, hatred, ignorance, pollution, addictions, and unnecessary suffering. It depends on how much, and in what numbers, we are willing to cooperate. News flash for the folks who think they have proprietary rights on the "operating manual." You don't. ;)

Love, Light & Peace,

andrew
 
I'm throwing this out there for feedback, particularly from Taijasi (because you seem to be very knowledgable in this subject) and of course to anyone else out there interested. I am reading some of the transcripts and readings of Edgar Cayce. For those not familiar with him, he was a man that was very intuitive. He made many psychic predictions that came true, spoke in tongues while in deep meditation , saw his own past lives along with a number of other peoples. He seemed to incorporate aspects of Christianity that I like alot into his beliefs. Namely forgiveness vs. karma, love and that the Christ inhabited Jesus' physical body because Jesus was able to transcend so much here in the earthly realm as to make a pure vessel to house the Christ.

I like this because the concept of Karma and reincarnation alone is somewhat depressing to me. It leads one to believe that he can never pay back the debts owed from previous incarnations here on earth and that as hard as one tries here he'll fall short and have to pay back more in the next life. Edgar combines the belief in reincarnation along with forgiveness and God's grace. This leads me to many questions I hold regarding grace and who gets it. Obviously everyone is open to God's grace but not everyone receives it or accepts it. I came to know God's grace through a prolonged period of suffering which led me to reach out to God for help. This wasn't by any virtue within me, it was just plain survival; the drowning man reaching out for the life preserver. God answered swiftly(in retrospect). My question is then, when does karma stop and grace begin or viceversa? Why would one receive God's grace and another not? God's grace is open to all but some don't accept it. You see some folks that die as angry and bitter as they were while alive. Maybe one's fulfillment of karma is directly related to one's ability to accept the grace offered. So one can't tell by looking at someone whether the problems and issues experienced will ever lead to God's grace in this lifetime or the next.

The idea of karma and reincarnation makes alot of sense to me and answers alot of questions as to why some people seem to suffer so greatly and others seem to go through life as if it was easy. The problems I'm talking of here go far beyond the realms of America's suburbs. I have seen people with lives and situations that would make you dizzy( as I'm sure others of you have also) Not that there aren't problems and severe suffering in the "burbs". If we are eternal spirits housed in physical bodies and we assume that our spirit is here for the learning and possible repayment of past debt, what of our physical blood lines to family? Some believe that we children pay for our parents and grandparents debts if they didn't live by spiritual and moral principles. I don't know exactly what i'm trying to ask but I see myself at a crossroad here.
 
I myself am a pretty hardcore skeptic and follower of science, so it may come to a surprise to you that I believe in reincarnation. Yes I do, because it is to me the best logical explanation we have on what happens after death. All others do not make any sense.

So why didn't I come to the conclusion that many atheists come to in that there is no life but the one we currently live? To me it makes no sense. Atheists claim that everything happens by chance and our lives are insignificant compared to the everything in this giant universe. However this life being our only clearly creates importance for this life. Why would 70-100 years on Earth be our only life without it being important. That makes no sense.

But my definition of reincarnation maybe a bit different from the Eastern reincarnation. To me reincarnation is an eternal cycle. It has no meaning, it just does have meaning. Ok that may seem confusing but basically I doubt there is a concrete reason why reincarnation has to have an omnibenevolent reason. Perhaps the universal conscious (God) made it the eternal cycle because it looked harmonious to him. Who knows? No one.

With that said I don't believe karma, although I used too. This may seem strange, as most people who believe in reincarnation believe karma. To me karma cannot exist unless we ourselves are gods. In other words who defines what is considered good and bad under karma? Humans do. We have no idea what God visions as good or evil. Some people believe putting homosexuals to death is moral, while others believe it is unjustified murder. So who is right? One would logically conclude that the one that advocates peace and tolerance towards homosexuals are the moral ones but who are we to claim this?

Morality is a concept created by humankind. Morality is very irreverent. However, this does not mean there is no global (universal for our planet) moral standard. I do believe that there are moralities that most of humankind will agree upon and that should be the morality we should follow. However this morality comes from us and it is superstitious to claim otherwise because there is no proof. I can create some hateful morality and claim this is God's universal law but it doesn't make it anymore so than a more agreed upon universal morality. Love, hate, greed, ect. are all human traits used to describe the behavior of homo sapiens. A sentient being across the universe may have totally different traits of the mind or what they consider good and evil.

Anyways about reincarnation. Besides knowing for sure our life cannot be important because 70-100 years on this planet is insignificant compared to the infinite unchanging reality, reincarnation makes sense to explain what happens to consciousness when you die.

So what exactly do I mean by consciousness? I don't mean the memory of people or any emotions. That is all a product of the physical body. Yes so with that said I believe the past-life experiences may in fact be illusions. How can you receive the memory of a past life when you do not have the brain of this past life? Think about it, what is in charge of memory? Memory is a product of the physical organ called the brain. Each wrinkle on our brain as well each certian other pars of it may represent a different memory. Are memories are within our brain and the physical brain is also the source of emotions and morality. So how can I from this life experience someone else's memory without their brain? I need their brain to know their memory because memory is from the brain.

The only essence I believe cannot be explained by physical theories is nothing more than conscious awareness. Awareness maybe something mankind can never create unless he find the physical chemicals that make up it. In other words we can create a very life-like robot but does it necessarily have a conscious awareness? If humankind didn't a conscious awareness then humankind would be just like robots. Programmed to look real but not real at all. But we all know that we do have awareness. This awareness if the fundamentals of the mind/soul IMHO. It is the only thing that remains eternal and can exist in any brain or host regardless on the emotions of the brain it inhabits.

Before we lived and after we live this life our conscious awareness (soul) will continue to travel. Since in my opinion the universe/multiverse/omniverse is infinite, the chances of returning to Earth are low. In fact I am almost certain my conscious awareness will inhabit a being from a totally different solar system, or another galaxy. Who knows, our conscious reality may even travel to another universe where reality is vastly different from our own (who knows maybe a 2D universe :eek:)!
 
I have stumbled across some interesting arguements regarding reincarnation in the Bible. These are pointed out by Edgar Cayce;

Proverbs 8 22-31- The Lord created me first of all, the first of his works, long ago. I was made in the very beginning, at the first, before the world began. I was born before the oceans, when there were no springs of water. I was born before the mountains, before the hills were set in place, before God made the earth and the fields or even the first handful of soil. I was there when he set the sky in place, when he stretched the horizon across the ocean, when he placed the clouds in the sky, when he opened the springs of the ocean and he ordered the waters of the sea to rise no further than he said. I was there when he laid the earth's foundations. I was beside him like an architect, I was his daily source of joy, always happy in his presence-- happy with the world and pleaesd with the human race ( KJV reads happy with the Sons of Man)

then we have; The Wisdom of Solomon 8: 19-20 ( found in Catholic version of the Bible)
I had a pleasant personaliy even as a child. I had been fortunate enough to receive a good soul, or rather was given a sound body to live in because I was already good. Still, I realized that I would never receive Wisdom unless God gave her to me- ans knowing that only God could give her to me was itself a sign of understanding. So I prayed, begging the Lord with all my heart.
 
I just watched (and recorded) a neat movie that involves reincarnation, one I'd never seen before. Chances Are, with Cybill Shepherd and Robert Downey, Jr., from 1989. It was fairly light-hearted all the way through, mostly a love story, and quite funny in parts. Kind of an interesting take on things, and I'm wondering if anyone has seen it.

Of course, the list of movies that explore reincarnation is huge ... but among the more memorable ones for me, are Defending Your Life (Albert Brooks), The Three Lives of Thomasina (about a cat! - I must've seen it 20 years ago!) .... and Dead Again (a true thriller, with plot twists, and definitely worth seeing). Robert Downey, Jr. shows up again in a great movie called Heart and Souls, which I also highly recommend, although it's not really about reincarnation per se. What Dreams May Come is along the same lines, having more to do with the afterlife, but reincarnation does factor in, as Robin Williams learns.

IMDB actually lists 565 titles with reincarnation keyword. For the movie buffs out there, have fun! :)

andrew
 
didymus said:
I have stumbled across some interesting arguements regarding reincarnation in the Bible. These are pointed out by Edgar Cayce;

Proverbs 8 22-31- The Lord created me first of all, the first of his works, long ago. I was made in the very beginning, at the first, before the world began. I was born before the oceans, when there were no springs of water. I was born before the mountains, before the hills were set in place, before God made the earth and the fields or even the first handful of soil. I was there when he set the sky in place, when he stretched the horizon across the ocean, when he placed the clouds in the sky, when he opened the springs of the ocean and he ordered the waters of the sea to rise no further than he said. I was there when he laid the earth's foundations. I was beside him like an architect, I was his daily source of joy, always happy in his presence-- happy with the world and pleaesd with the human race ( KJV reads happy with the Sons of Man)

then we have; The Wisdom of Solomon 8: 19-20 ( found in Catholic version of the Bible)
I had a pleasant personaliy even as a child. I had been fortunate enough to receive a good soul, or rather was given a sound body to live in because I was already good. Still, I realized that I would never receive Wisdom unless God gave her to me- ans knowing that only God could give her to me was itself a sign of understanding. So I prayed, begging the Lord with all my heart.

In Proverbs Didymus, the speaker is "Wisdom". In Solomon, the speaker is Solomon.

v/r

Q
 
taijasi said:
I just watched (and recorded) a neat movie that involves reincarnation, one I'd never seen before. Chances Are, with Cybill Shepherd and Robert Downey, Jr., from 1989. It was fairly light-hearted all the way through, mostly a love story, and quite funny in parts. Kind of an interesting take on things, and I'm wondering if anyone has seen it.

Of course, the list of movies that explore reincarnation is huge ... but among the more memorable ones for me, are Defending Your Life (Albert Brooks), The Three Lives of Thomasina (about a cat! - I must've seen it 20 years ago!) .... and Dead Again (a true thriller, with plot twists, and definitely worth seeing). Robert Downey, Jr. shows up again in a great movie called Heart and Souls, which I also highly recommend, although it's not really about reincarnation per se. What Dreams May Come is along the same lines, having more to do with the afterlife, but reincarnation does factor in, as Robin Williams learns.

IMDB actually lists 565 titles with reincarnation keyword. For the movie buffs out there, have fun! :)

andrew

And what a conundrum that caused! chances are though I wear a silly grin...

Let's see, lover proposes, or tries to, and dies. woman gives birth to a girl, girl meets re-incarnated lover of mom, both are in love with him...he has no idea what to do with this mother/daughter relationship issue. Angels screw up royally by not wiping man's memory of the past. Mother lets go of the past, but gains a son who loves her daughter, and gets O'neil as a husband to boot...not too shabby.

I suppose it could happen, after getting the much needed shot in the...:eek:

v/r

Q
 
maybe a bit off topic but just wanted to comment on Hitler's karma :) ...

even with karma in play, causually effecting our current well being, it doesn not determine what we do at any given time. from what i know, Hitler was abused/beaton by his father, obviously really effecting him, as it would anyone. so perhaps if his father had known more of morality the name hitler might now mean nothing to us.
 
I think that the lines form Proverbs and Wisdom of Solomon allude to the eternal soul within us. Our souls have been with God and a part of God always. We(our souls) like God, have no beginning and no end. It also indicates a belief in reincarnation in the Jewish culture in those days.
 
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