The Rapture

[mee]

it is my belief that ... the end of the appointed times of the nations .... was in 1914... luke 21;24 this is when Jesus was made king in the heavenly kingdom goverment.shortly after this those asleep in death who are spiritual jews(144,000) from all nations started to be resurrected to heaven , but we do not see it. it is invisible and anyone who is part of the 144,000 who dies after 1914 will be resurrected in the twinkling of an eye, it will happen sraight away when they die ,they will not have to wait in death like those earlier ones did ,it will happen right away after they die but it will be invisible but the earlier ones who died before 1914 had to wait untill 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom so it is my belief that there are not many 144,000 spiritual jews left on the earth now , as they are all elderly people and they will die soon . but maybe there could be some left on the earth when armageddon happens, but most of them are already with Jesus ruling as king and priests in the heavens. so since 1914 the resurrection has been happening so its no good waiting to see a visible rapture of live people it will not happen , that is my belief according to the bible, but the world in general do not recgonize Jesus kingship in 1914 but i do

 

[wil]

Namate mee, please to clear a little confusion...

so as I understand it the 144,000 receive the glory and are the rulers of the new kingdom of earth...the remainder are what, the worker bees? How will it change for us...and I assume that is all of us, all of us that accept it to be true that is...the rest won't get to be worker bees in the new earth.

But back to the 144k, since 1914, how many spiritual jews have died? Maybe all 144,000? And how about those that went before 1914, what is there role?

So maybe lets say there are half the slots left, 72,000...every 11 hours on this planet 72,000 die. (and is this the only planet this applies to?) So slots are going quickly, and odds are better at winning the lottery than any of us being part of the 144,000 because people have been knocking on doors for years recruiting others to take their seat at the throne ahead of them....

Is my logic just 100% wrong? It appears I'm using less conjecture for this than I have to use to identify the 1914 or 144k.

 

[mee]

i know i am not one of the 144,000 i am part of the great crowd , revelation 7;9 ,i would say these ones of the great crowd will be busy bees on the earth after armageddon, making the earth as God wants it in line with the heavenly kingdom goverment, but the great crowd now are busy telling others about the kingdom good news , the great crowd are helping the remnent of the 144,000 left on the earth to get the job done busy ,busy, busy, plenty to do in the work of the Lord

 

[InChristAlways]

Daniel 8:17 And he cometh in near my station, and at his coming in I have been afraid, and I fall on my face, and he saith unto me: Understand, son of man, for at the Time of the End [is] the vision.

Daniel 12:9 And he saith, `Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things till the Time of the End;

it is my belief that ... the end of the appointed times of the nations .... was in 1914... luke 21;24 this is when Jesus was made king in the heavenly kingdom goverment.shortly after this those asleep in death who are spiritual jews(144,000) from all nations started to be resurrected to heaveni know i am not one of the 144,000 i am part of the great crowd , revelation 7;9 ,i would say these ones of the great crowd will be busy bees on the earth after armageddon, making the earth as God wants it in line with the heavenly kingdom goverment, but the great crowd now are busy telling others about the kingdom good news , the great crowd are helping the remnent of the 144,000 left on the earth to get the job done busy ,busy, busy, plenty to do in the work of the Lord

mee. Your mistake is putting a "Date" in your post. Since you are a Christ-ian, how do explain your date to the OC jewish nation? Other religions do not believe in revelation [though Islam does believe Christ as a great prophet], and judaism has different views on how Daniel 11/12 is to be interpreted.

So are armegeddon and Gog-magog 2 different "Time of the Ends" for the OC jewish Nation? [Reve 19/20]

Some Christ-ians and some in judaism point to "1948" as a fulfillment of prophecies for Israel. How do you see that year in prophecy? Keep in mine that it is OC Judah and Israel in the Endtime prophecies of the Bible as Michael stands up for them it appears. Thanks.

Jeremiah 31: 31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a New Covenant, ...............33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people.

Daniel 8:13 `And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when [is] the vision of the continual, and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down? 14 And he saith unto me, Till evening--morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.

Daniel 11:31 and arms from Him, They shall stand up and They profane/defile the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They remove the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination, One making desolate. [Olivet Discourse]

Daniel 12:1 `And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book.

...............26 And the appearance of the evening and of the morning, that is told, is true; and thou, hide thou the vision, for [it is] after many days.'

 

[Quahom1]

it is my belief that ... the end of the appointed times of the nations .... was in 1914... luke 21;24 this is when Jesus was made king in the heavenly kingdom goverment.shortly after this those asleep in death who are spiritual jews(144,000) from all nations started to be resurrected to heaven , but we do not see it. it is invisible and anyone who is part of the 144,000 who dies after 1914 will be resurrected in the twinkling of an eye, it will happen sraight away when they die ,they will not have to wait in death like those earlier ones did ,it will happen right away after they die but it will be invisible but the earlier ones who died before 1914 had to wait untill 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom so it is my belief that there are not many 144,000 spiritual jews left on the earth now , as they are all elderly people and they will die soon . but maybe there could be some left on the earth when armageddon happens, but most of them are already with Jesus ruling as king and priests in the heavens. so since 1914 the resurrection has been happening so its no good waiting to see a visible rapture of live people it will not happen , that is my belief according to the bible, but the world in general do not recgonize Jesus kingship in 1914 but i do

Thank you for clarifying your position, and for the education. Now I understand much more than I did before.

v/r

Q

 

[InChristAlways]

Daniel 8:17 And he cometh in near my station, and at his coming in I have been afraid, and I fall on my face, and he saith unto me: Understand, son of man, for at the Time of the End [is] the vision.

Daniel 12:9 And he saith, `Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things till the Time of the End;

Originally Posted by mee
it is my belief that ... the end of the appointed times of the nations .... was in 1914............so since 1914 the resurrection has been happening so its no good waiting to see a visible rapture of live people it will not happen .....but the earlier ones who died before 1914 had to wait untill 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom so it is my belief that there are not many 144,000 "spiritual jews" left on the earth now .......... that is my belief according to the bible, but the world in general do not recgonize Jesus kingship in 1914 but i do

Hi mee. Could you clarify the significance of 1914 for me as spoken of in scripture, as I do understand the rest of what you are saying, especially the "visible rapture" into the "air" as shown on the cover of some Christ-ians endtime books. And what do you mean by "spiritual jews", those who have come to Christ and the NC and follow the Lamb wherever He goes? Jews today do not follow the Lamb of the NT.

Revelation 14:4 these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men--a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb--

Thanks.

Daniel 11:35 And from the teachers/wise ones they shall stumble to refine in them, and to purify in them, and for making white--untill the Time of the End, for [it is] yet for a time appointed.

Malachi 3:2 And who is bearing the day of his coming? And who is standing in his appearing? For he [is] as fire of a refiner, And as soap of a fuller. 3 And he hath sat, a refiner and purifier of silver, And he hath purified the sons of Levi, And hath refined them as gold and as silver, And they have been to Jehovah bringing nigh a present in righteousness.

 

[InLove]

Hi and Peace--

Wow. Going back to the very first posts on this thread, I must say that I never realized that there were people who considered the event that some have come to refer to as "The Rapture" to be something that only included U.S. citizens (and "white" ones, to boot!). Sorry, but that really sounds quite ridiculous to me.

Gee whiz and goodness gracious! I come pretty much from the heart of where the rest of the world might think that this is the predominant way of thinking. If there are people who think this way, they must belong to certain organizations that have nothing at all to do with true Christianity (the KKK comes to mind!)

As far as cars and airplanes being abandoned and crashing into each other, as well as nuclear bombs going off because the people guarding the system are believers---well, I cannot really say. I have to admit that it doesn't seem right somehow, but then again, we have only been warned over and over and over throughout the ages about the insufferable hardships that might take place. Maybe there is something there to think about. Why else would the whole world be so intrigued and having such intellectual debates about it all?

I know, I know--if God is really Love, how could He and why would He let humankind suffer in these ways? Now, or in the future? I dunno--perhaps He knows something we don't?

And, by the way...the "end of the world" has been coming for so long--it was those blasted Christians that started it all, wasn't it? Well, it hasn't happened yet, so they must be wrong, right? Or maybe, just maybe it is the prayers of these same people that have put "the end" (of the world as we know it) off time after time. Not possible? Unbelievable? Not according to the Word of God. All one has to do is read it in prayer and sincerity to see that it is entirely possible.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InChristAlways]

The closest thing to rapturist political intervention in world events I can think of in the '70s was support—by a VERY tiny minority of churches—for a similarly fringe-element splinter of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. You see, one of the many interpretations of Second Coming scriptures holds that before the rapture can occur, the Temple must be rebuilt on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. That particular bit of real estate, of course, is currently occupied by one of the holiest shrines of Islam, and Muslims worldwide become infuriated at the periodic (and untrue—the Israeli leadership is NOT crazy!) rumors that the Israeli government is about to take over the Mount, tear down the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque of Omar, and rebuild the Temple.

Ellen G. Wright--one of the disappointed--went on to help found the Seventh Day Adventists, who continued to expect the Second Coming at any time.

Another Christian sect with similar ideas is the Jehovah's Witnesses, who first predicted Christ's return for 1914. Later revisions of this date set the time of His coming in 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, and finally 1975. The most recent JW argument I've heard suggests that Christ really DID come in 1914; we just haven't noticed Him yet.

The point is, literal interpretations of Biblical scenes of fiery judgment and the triumph of the righteous are not restricted to the failure of the American dream.

InLove quote:.......And, by the way...the "end of the world" has been coming for so long--it was those blasted Christians that started it all, wasn't it? Well, it hasn't happened yet, so they must be wrong, right? Or maybe, just maybe it is the prayers of these same people that have put "the end" (of the world as we know it) off time after time. Not possible? Unbelievable? Not according to the Word of God. All one has to do is read it in prayer and sincerity to see that it is entirely possible.

InPeace,
InLove

Hi InLove. I flee from any religious doctrine or beliefs that attempts to "date" events in the Bible or the books in the Bible itself, and thus by this have these "false prophets" shipwrecked the Faith of many over the centuries.

When the hour, month, day and year come, I am sure we will be aware of it, but those who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved and be without FEAR. At least that is what Paul promised. Besides, the event happens in "Israel" it appears.
Steve

Daniel 11:35 And from the teachers/wise ones they shall stumble to refine in them, and to purify in them, and for making white--untill the Time of the End, for [it is] yet for a time appointed.

Matthew 24:6 and ye shall begin to hear of wars, and reports of wars; see, be not troubled, for it behoveth all [these] to come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Romans 10:13 for every one--whoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord, he shall be saved [#4982].'

Reve 9:15 and loosed were the four messengers, who have been made ready for the hour, and day, and month, and year, that they may kill the third of men;

 

[InLove]

Hi and Peace--

Hi InLove. I flee from any religious doctrine or beliefs that attempts to "date" events in the Bible or the books in the Bible itself, and thus by this have these "false prophets" shipwrecked the Faith of many over the centuries.

When the hour, month, day and year come, I am sure we will be aware of it, but those who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved and be without FEAR. At least that is what Paul promised. Besides, the event happens in "Israel" it appears.
Steve

I hardly ever do this--copy substantial blocks of text from another publication (unless it is on the music lyrics threads), but I am making an exception this time because I truly find the following passage interesting and relevent to the conversation. I know that many people are skeptical of the writings of Dr. Billy Graham, but I find him to be a faithful and astute servant, and nothing like the characateur sometimes painted by the media or his critics.

In his 1983 composition, "Approaching Hoofbeats", He writes:

"Some day, the Bible says, judgment is certainly coming. 'For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed.' (Acts 17:31).

Until this time that God has appointed, however, there are many occasions when God seemingly delays or averts His hand of judgment for a period of time because men have repented and turned to Him in faith and obedience....

A good example of this is seen in God's dealings with the people of the ancient Assyrian capital of Nineveh....God sent the prophet Jonah to Nineveh to proclaim His coming judgment to them: 'Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you....Forty more days and Nineveh will be destroyed' (Jonah 3:2,4). But when the king of Nineveh heard Jonah's message he repented and ordered the whole people to repent as well. As a result God's judgment was averted. Only later, when evil increased in the generations after Jonah and the people failed to repent, did God's judgment finally fall on Nineveh. God's judgment is often this way. Some day it will come in all its fullness and finality--but in the meantime it may be that God's hand of judgment will pause when we repent, just as the first horse pauses before being let loose on the world in full measure.

Therefore....we must not feel that we are to sit back and do nothing to fight evil just because some day [the horsemen] will come with full and final force upon the earth. Yes, God's final judgment is inevitable--but He alone know when it is, and until that time we are to learn the lessons of the four horsemen and act in such a way that God may be pleased to delay His judgment and allow our world more time to hear His Word and turn to Him" (p. 72-74, italics mine).

I hope this does not carry us too far from the original topic of "The Rapture", but as I said, I found it relevent to the last few posts, and thought it was worth sharing.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways Hi InLove. I flee from any religious doctrine or beliefs that attempts to "date" events in the Bible or the books in the Bible itself, and thus by this have these "false prophets" shipwrecked the Faith of many over the centuries.

When the hour, month, day and year come, I am sure we will be aware of it, but those who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved and be without FEAR. At least that is what Paul promised. Besides, the event happens in "Israel" it appears.

Daniel 11:35 And from the teachers/wise ones they shall stumble to refine in them, and to purify in them, and for making white--untill the Time of the End, for [it is] yet for a time appointed.

Reve 9:15 and loosed were the four messengers, who have been made ready for the hour, and day, and month, and year, that they may kill the third of men;
Steve

quote InLove: A good example of this is seen in God's dealings with the people of the ancient Assyrian capital of Nineveh....God sent the prophet Jonah to Nineveh to proclaim His coming judgment to them: 'Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you....Forty more days and Nineveh will be destroyed' (Jonah 3:2,4). But when the king of Nineveh heard Jonah's message he repented and ordered the whole peole to repent as well.

The book of Jonah is an interesting book in the OT, and it appears to be the whole NT in one little book in some ways.[as is Isaiah 28]

Isaiah 28: 18 Your covenant with death will be covered over/atoned, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, Then you will be trampled down by it.

I actually viewed Jonah as a type of Paul/Saul of the NT after Jonah is vomited up, since Paul did come shortly after Pentecost and was told to preach to Kings, Gentiles and children of Israel. A lot of "messianics" view Paul as a false apostle, which is blasphemous in itself I think, as it nullifies Paul's Day of the Lord prophecies and freedom from the bondage of the OC Law of Mt Sinai for the jews.[galatians 4]

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [you] therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing[#2015] and His kingdom:..... 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing/brightness[#2015].

The ship Jonah was on I viewed as a type of "Jerusalem" since Jesus used that event to symbolize His crucifixion/ resurrection.

quote InLove: Therefore....we must not feel that we are to sit back and do nothing to fight evil just because some day [the horsemen] will come with full and final force upon the earth. Yes, God's final judgment is inevitable--but He alone know when it is, and until that time we are to learn the lessons of the four horsemen and act in such a way that God may be pleased to delay His judgment and allow our world more time to hear His Word and turn to Him" (p. 72-74, italics mine).

I agree that we should always be praying and striving for Peace and Love in the world and not be concerned with the Endtimes as much as bringing as many people to the Peace and Joy that is in God the Father through the Words of His Son Jesus.

Death is also described as a "rest", not punishment. Do you feel revelation is describing the Olivet Discourse and Daniel 11/12?

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.

Revelation 6:11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both [the number of] their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they [were,] was completed.

 

[wil]

my understanding is that Jonah was actually an op/ed piece of its day. Tongue and cheek sarcasm about a local authority who was shirking his duty. Names changed like Gullivers travels or Shakespeare...so as not to get the author in trouble...but those with ears may here...

 

[InChristAlways]

I actually viewed Jonah as a type of Paul/Saul of the NT after Jonah is vomited up, since Paul did come shortly after Pentecost and was told to preach to Kings, Gentiles and children of Israel. A lot of "messianics" view Paul as a false apostle, which is blasphemous in itself I think, as it nullifies Paul's Day of the Lord prophecies and freedom from the bondage of the OC Law of Mt Sinai for the jews.[galatians 4]

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [you] therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing[#2015] and His kingdom:..... 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing/brightness[#2015].

The ship Jonah was on I viewed as a type of "Jerusalem" since Jesus used that event to symbolize His crucifixion/ resurrection.

my understanding is that Jonah was actually an op/ed piece of its day. Tongue and cheek sarcasm about a local authority who was shirking his duty. Names changed like Gullivers travels or Shakespeare...so as not to get the author in trouble...but those with ears may here...

Hi wil. The book of Jonah is perhaps one of the smallest books in the Bible and the fact that Jesus quoted from it should lead us to delve more deeply into it.

I have no idea how judaism views it, but they would not see Jesus in it since they do not believe in the NT. Names do change of course, such as Saul being called Paul and being from Tarsus.

I suppose I am wondering why a lot of so called "christian" messianics view Paul as a "false apostle" and thus I am trying to find anything in the OT that would show/"symbolize" Saul/Paul prophecied as coming in the OT, and the book of Jonah is about as close as I could come. Paul also describes the "rapture" on which a lot of christians call "the blessed hope" so this site is a slap in the face to the Ecclessia of Christ.
Steve.

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

There are a number of historical facts, quotations from Paul, and quotations from Yahshua recorded in the New Testament that leave us with some quite compelling evidence against his apostleship being recognized in heaven. There are several interesting facts surrounding this case that should be noted and kept in mind. They are:

Perhaps because he talked against the jews and Mosaic Law of that day so much?

Acts 9:11 So the Lord [said] to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for [one] called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.

Jonah 1:3 But Jonah arose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. He went down to Joppa, and found a ship going to Tarshish; so he paid the fare, and went down into it, to go with them to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. Jonah 3:1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you." 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey [in extent.]

Tarshish 1) son of Javan 2) a Benjamite, son of Bilhan

3) one of the wise men close to king Ahasuerus of Persia

 

[mee]

Hi mee. Could you clarify the significance of 1914 for me as spoken of in scripture, as I do understand the rest of what you are saying, especially the "visible rapture" into the "air" as shown on the cover of some Christ-ians endtime books. And what do you mean by "spiritual jews", those who have come to Christ and the NC and follow the Lamb wherever He goes? Jews today do not follow the Lamb of the NT. Thanks.

Daniel 11:35 And from the teachers/wise ones they shall stumble to refine in them, and to purify in them, and for making white--untill the Time of the End, for [it is] yet for a time appointed.

Malachi 3:2 And who is bearing the day of his coming? And who is standing in his appearing? For he [is] as fire of a refiner, And as soap of a fuller. 3 And he hath sat, a refiner and purifier of silver, And he hath purified the sons of Levi, And hath refined them as gold and as silver, And they have been to Jehovah bringing nigh a present in righteousness.

i realize that the world in general do not recognize that Jesus was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens in 1914 ,but JW do recognize this kingship and also this date as the end of the gentile time , it is the date that the bible points to in line with bible prophecy and chronology. it is also my belief that the bible deals with spiritual jews from ALL nations the early litral jews who recognized that Jesus was Gods son were spiritual jews the same way that others from the gentile nations were spiritual jews . Jehovah God no longer uses litral jews as a nation . but that does not mean that some litral jews have not become spiritual jews because they did . the 144,000 are from all nations they are circumsized in their hearts not the flesh
And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end; because it is yet for the time appointed time daniel 11;35 yes it is my belief in line with the bible that those having insight will be made to stumble and this has happened and it leaves the best in place only the best will endure

​

(Matthew 10:22) And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.




​

(Revelation 2:10) Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life

But who will be putting up with the day of his coming, and who will be the one standing when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen malachi 3;2

(Daniel 12:10) Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand

​

(Zechariah 13:9) And I shall certainly bring the third [part] through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, ‘It is my people,’ and it, in its turn, will say, ‘Jehovah is my God.

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways
Hi mee. Could you clarify the significance of 1914 for me as spoken of in scripture... And what do you mean by "spiritual jews", those who have come to Christ and the NC and follow the "Passover" Lamb wherever He goes? Jews today do not follow the Lamb of the NT. Thanks.

Daniel 11:35 And from the teachers/wise ones they shall stumble to refine/try [#06884] in them, and to purify [#01305] in them, and for making white--untill the Time of the End, for [it is] yet for a time appointed.

Malachi 3:2 And who is bearing the day of his coming? And who is standing in his appearing? For he [is] as fire of a refiner [#06884], And as soap of a fuller. 3 And he hath sat, a refiner [#06884] and purifier [#02891] of silver, And he hath purified the sons of Levi, And hath refined them as gold and as silver, And they have been to Jehovah bringing nigh a present in righteousness.

i realize that the world in general do not recognize that Jesus was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens in 1914 ,but JW do recognize this kingship and also this date as the end of the gentile time , it is the date that the bible points to in line with bible prophecy and chronology. it is also my belief that the bible deals with spiritual jews from ALL nations the early litral jews who recognized that Jesus was Gods son were spiritual jews the same way that others from the gentile nations were spiritual jews . Jehovah God no longer uses litral jews as a nation .

Hi mee. Thanks. Christ was born the King of the Israel of God, so how could he have been made King in 1914

The spiritual Israel of God are the ones who recognize Jesus the Christ our Lord, as the King of Israel but those who are still "jews/circumcision" in the "flesh" and covered by the veil of Moses still do not recognize the True King of the Israel of God, and perhaps it is because of views like yours that prevent them from seeing Him that way?
Steve

Zephaniah 3:15 Jehovah hath turned aside thy judgments, He hath faced thine enemy, The king of Israel, Jehovah, [is] in thy midst, Thou seest evil no more.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.'

Mark 15:32 The Christ! the King of Israel--let him come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe;' and those crucified with him were reproaching him.

Why would God mention just "jews" and not Israelites?

Reve 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and [I know] the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but [are] a synagogue of Satan......... 18 " And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ' These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

 

[Quahom1]

Hi mee. Thanks. Christ was born the King of the Israel of God, so how could he have been made King in 1914

The spiritual Israel of God are the ones who recognize Jesus the Christ our Lord, as the King of Israel but those who are still "jews/circumcision" in the "flesh" and covered by the veil of Moses still do not recognize the True King of the Israel of God, and perhaps it is because of views like yours that prevent them from seeing Him that way?
Steve

Zephaniah 3:15 Jehovah hath turned aside thy judgments, He hath faced thine enemy, The king of Israel, Jehovah, [is] in thy midst, Thou seest evil no more.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.'

Mark 15:32 The Christ! the King of Israel--let him come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe;' and those crucified with him were reproaching him.

Why would God mention just "jews" and not Israelites?

Reve 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and [I know] the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but [are] a synagogue of Satan......... 18 " And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ' These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

Perhaps due to the fact that Jesus originally "specifically" came to save the Jews (tribe of Judah) in which He was born. But the gentiles got it so fast, and the faith of them that were strangers was so strong, He could not help but include the "grafted branches", for they grafted themselves in desperate hope, before He was ready.

A tree is known by the fruit it bares, and the gentile's fruit was (and is) sweet indeed.

What think you of those non Jews that get circumsized? Are we not attempting to act like Jews?

my thoughts

v/r

Q

 

[Quahom1]

i realize that the world in general do not recognize that Jesus was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens in 1914 ,but JW do recognize this kingship and also this date as the end of the gentile time , it is the date that the bible points to in line with bible prophecy and chronology. it is also my belief that the bible deals with spiritual jews from ALL nations the early litral jews who recognized that Jesus was Gods son were spiritual jews the same way that others from the gentile nations were spiritual jews . Jehovah God no longer uses litral jews as a nation . but that does not mean that some litral jews have not become spiritual jews because they did . the 144,000 are from all nations they are circumsized in their hearts not the flesh
And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end; because it is yet for the time appointed time daniel 11;35 yes it is my belief in line with the bible that those having insight will be made to stumble and this has happened and it leaves the best in place only the best will endure

(Matthew 10:22) And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.






​

(Revelation 2:10) Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life

But who will be putting up with the day of his coming, and who will be the one standing when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen malachi 3;2

(Daniel 12:10) Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand



(Zechariah 13:9) And I shall certainly bring the third [part] through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, ‘It is my people,’ and it, in its turn, will say, ‘Jehovah is my God.

The problem with this is that most Christians think of Jesus as the SON of GOD, and the SON of MAN. He is both. Yet He was before we ever existed. Jesus is the Word of God (Logos), hence has been forever.

In the beginning was the "Word", and the world was without form...

That is pretty concrete stuff concerning the beginning of Jesus.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

The problem with this is that most Christians think of Jesus as the SON of GOD, and the SON of MAN. He is both. Yet He was before we ever existed. Jesus is the Word of God (Logos), hence has been forever.

In the beginning was the "Word", and the world was without form...

That is pretty concrete stuff concerning the beginning of Jesus.

v/r

Q

Jesus​

Christ






​

Definition: The only-begotten Son of God, the only Son produced by Jehovah alone. This Son is the firstborn of all creation. By means of him all other things in heaven and on earth were created. He is the second-greatest personage in the universe. It is this Son whom Jehovah sent to the earth to give his life as a ransom for mankind, thus opening the way to eternal life for those of Adam’s offspring who would exercise faith. This same Son, restored to heavenly glory, now rules as King, with authority to destroy all the wicked and to carry out his Father’s original purpose for the earth. The Hebrew form of the name Jesus means "Jehovah Is Salvation"; Christ is the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shi´ach (Messiah), meaning "Anointed One

Jesus—A​

Godlike One; Divine


​

Joh​

1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"


​

Gr., και θεος ην ο λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)

 

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by mee
i realize that the world in general do not recognize that Jesus was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens in 1914 ,but JW do recognize this kingship and also this date as the end of the gentile time , it is the date that the bible points to in line with bible prophecy and chronology.

Originally Posted by InChristAlways
Hi mee. Could you clarify the significance of 1914 for me as spoken of in scripture................... Thanks.

Hi mee. You didn't answer my question about Christ becoming King in 1914 and how you arrived at that "scripturally". Was He not born the King of Israel?

Zephaniah 3:15 Jehovah hath turned aside thy judgments, He hath faced thine enemy, The king of Israel, Jehovah, [is] in thy midst, Thou seest evil no more.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.'

Mark 15:32 The Christ! the King of Israel--let him come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe;' and those crucified with him were reproaching him.

Jeremiah 31: 31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a New Covenant, ...............33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people.

 

[mee]

Hi mee. You didn't answer my question about Christ becoming King in 1914 and how you arrived at that "scripturally". Was He not born the King of Israel?

Zephaniah 3:15 Jehovah hath turned aside thy judgments, He hath faced thine enemy, The king of Israel, Jehovah, [is] in thy midst, Thou seest evil no more.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.'

Mark 15:32 The Christ! the King of Israel--let him come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe;' and those crucified with him were reproaching him.

Jeremiah 31: 31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a New Covenant, ...............33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people.

if you are not aware of the scriptual date 1914 then maybe you have not looked into bible chronology and prophecy ,Jesus has a faithful slave class MATTHEW 24;45-47who is recieving spiritual food at the right time ,this is the only channel that Jesus is using to give out good spiritual food, but we have got to be humble enough to listen to and recieve the good spiritual food from this class ,if we want to have accurate knowledge of the bible in these last days . that is what i believe to be the true channel and anyone can get understanding if they want to ,i know i did and now i am full to the brim. why dont you do what i did and listen to that channel then you would not have to ask how do you get to that date, you would know. and yes i agree Jesus was born to be a king , and he is , he is the king of Gods heavenly kingdom in the heavens Daniel 2;44

 

[InChristAlways]

Zephaniah 3:15 Jehovah hath turned aside thy judgments, He hath faced thine enemy, The king of Israel, Jehovah, [is] in thy midst, Thou seest evil no more.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.'

Mark 15:32 The Christ! the King of Israel--let him come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe;' and those crucified with him were reproaching him.

Jeremiah 31: 31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a New Covenant,

Originally Posted by mee i realize that the world in general do not recognize that Jesus was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens in 1914 ,but JW do recognize this kingship and also this date as the end of the gentile time , it is the date that the bible points to in line with bible prophecy and chronology.
if you are not aware of the scriptual date 1914 then maybe you have not looked into bible chronology and prophecy ,Jesus has a faithful slave class MATTHEW 24;45-47

Again, please explain 1914 to me and is that strictly a JW's view? If so, I will pass on joining them in this false biblical prophecy, as I do all other historicist dating of prophecies, such as "1948" being a fulfilled prophecy [though I myself do not], so how do you go about setting a date when the Bible tells us not to [though Daniel 12 does give us a certain amount of days here]. thanks.

daniel 12: 12 "Blessed [is] he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 13 "But you, go [your way] till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."