Jesus Never Was a Mystery- Jesus Himself Explains – Sigh of Jonah

wil said:
Just because my view of the scope of what a follower of Jesus could be differs from yours, does not make mine a personal attack....Now of course if I were in the Catholic Forum or the Baptist Forum...I would have to agree... And while I feel that this discussion as the other that inhumility started could rightly be in the christian forum, it really doesn't matter. You've booted them both out....to belief and spirituality...where now my beliefs be they christian or pagan or scientific are now within the realm.

I am saying that the 2.1 billion people who make up christianity won't agree on many tenents, rituals, beliefs of their denomination v. mine or yours...the path is much wider...that is what I said...truth is their are many chrisitans in those 2.1 billion that don't believe in the virgin birth, original sin, trinity, diety of Jesus, resurection....but they count themselves as christian because they believe the value of what Jesus spoke....whether any of these are true or not...
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hey Wil,
first of all I aint concerned about numbers & stats like that.
please explain to me how Jesus not being put to death has anything to do with Christianity?
you must be talking about another religion if Jesus did not die, get buried & rise from the dead.

does that mean i get to go into all the other religions here at CR & tell them to believe something different?
i think not!

first you say they count themselves as Christians because of what Jesus spoke is valuable, but then you say whether it is true or not...WHAT? does not matter?
so does it matter what people say if it is true or not? or we can just say whatever we want even if it is not true?

so what do you believe Wil? i am confused.
please explain
 
Just a quick pointer - I'm planning to update the entire site, soon - there are a few corrections and lots of omissions that will be going up. :)
 
taijasi said:
No, Q, you're taking things a bit personally, methinks. As have others. There is no slap in the face intended. I stand by my belief(s) ... and just because they do not concur with yours, or even those of most of the rest of the world's 2.1 billion Christians ... does not mean that they are any less valid. Or that they are necessarily inaccurate, as far as facts go.
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Just to clarify, the problem was that you were posting non-Christian beliefs on the Christianity board.

The CR forums function as a series of "walled gardens" - in each one, each faith is encouraged to discuss issues without fear of people from outside that faith coming in and criticising it.

A non-Christian telling Christians their beliefs are wrong and in error on the Christianity board, is just as invasive as a Christian posting on the Paganism board that their beliefs are wrong and in error.

Hence the reasons for the previous moderator actions.
 
Since this will disappear anyway, now that the prevailing christian sentiment shall rule the day ... let's just remember whose history of tearing down who is greater:

Crusades
Inquisition
Witch Hunts

... all of which continues to this very day. To wit: You don't just have to play along nicely, the ongoing feeling of victimization on the part of christians - especially fundamentalist christians - which emerges each and every time there is the slightest thing said to challenge the prevailing, dominating view ..... THAT is demonstration enough for me, that there is no real interest in discussion. All that matters, is quoting scripture back and forth, until one turns blue in the face. :rolleyes:

I've got a few better things than that to do with my time. HAVE AT ME, if you happen to catch this post before it gets axed. I don't expect to be able to post here much longer, and that's just ducky with me. :D

Sol Invictus
 
I would just like to clarify something..

Inquisition, witch-hunts and the crusades were the actions of mere men..

I had this funny feeling when you first started posting here that you had some negative feelings towards Christians and that it would just be a matter of time before those feelings came out. I was right...

There is the potential for so much love in this world to spend so much energy on hate. I can only assume that someone hurt you so much that you developed these feelings and for that I am giving you a serious apology on behalf of those of my faith. We are all human and we ALL make mistakes. Please do not hold it against an entire group of people..
 
taijasi said:
Since this will disappear anyway, now that the prevailing christian sentiment shall rule the day ... let's just remember whose history of tearing down who is greater:

Crusades
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The Crusades may not be the best part of history but lets talk about what caused them...they were not the brainchild of some ambitious Pope or some holier than thou knights...they were in answer to more than 4 centuries of conquest during which Muslims had captured 2/3 of the old christian world!
 
Taijasi said:
To wit: You don't just have to play along nicely, the ongoing feeling of victimization on the part of christians - especially fundamentalist christians - which emerges each and every time there is the slightest thing said to challenge the prevailing, dominating view ..... THAT is demonstration enough for me, that there is no real interest in discussion. All that matters, is quoting scripture back and forth, until one turns blue in the face. :rolleyes:
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All religions have had bad and bloody pasts at times all but one has apologized for them and moved on from the violent ways.

Only one still think of Holy Wars and expansion of their religion through violent means, only one believes God has given them the mission to kill any who reject him.

Sorry to inform you but it is not Christianity.:eek:
 
Dor said:
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Sorry I was told to be either hot or cold not lukewarm by Jesus Christ the Son of God, Saviour of the World, First and Last, The Word. So I will continue to wear my faith on my sleeve and respond to anyone trying to tear him down.
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Dor, weren't these the words of John? Even if from Jesus, this verse is open for interpretation. If one is luke warm in their spiritual progress or their attitude towards God they will not receive the fullness. John says that God prefers that we would be cold or hot. Why would God want us cold rather than luke warm?? I think John was extra expressive in revelations because he was feeling the full brunt of the Roman army. He saw his faith and beliefs being threatened. You can imagine the duress under which he wrote this book.
 
Dor said:
The Crusades may not be the best part of history but lets talk about what caused them...they were not the brainchild of some ambitious Pope or some holier than thou knights...they were in answer to more than 4 centuries of conquest during which Muslims had captured 2/3 of the old christian world!
Click to expand...

True the crusades were launched to push back the moorish tide (that was the rally cry), however the Kings that initiated such were abosolutely stupid in conscripting ignorant, illiterate soldiers to go against more or less educated and literate Muslim opponents. That is one powerful reason why the "Christian" soldiers lost 9 of the 10 campaigns (and the victory of the tenth is questionable). The "Captains" who were in charge of the soldiers didn't fair much better in the "intelligence" side of the house either. And the leaders were interested in only one thing primarily (wealth), conversion to Christianity was a bonus, and death to the vanquished was more acceptable (as that meant more land for the King).

I'm sorry, but stupid is as stupid gets.

Definitely not one of Christendom's better moments in history.

v/r

Q
 
It is the opinion of many, and I trust more than hearsay, that the Knights Templars, who were most certainly the faithful servants of Christ ... were known to "fraternize with the enemy." In their time, though fierce opponents on the battlefield, the Templars were quite respectful of the faith (and practice) of the Saracens, and it would appear that much was exchanged between them. If my recollection serves - and it has been more than 9 centuries - the Saracens were welcome in the Temple of Jerusalem, after the latter city had been taken by the Christians in 1099. Thus, accord between the Faith of Islam, and Christianity, dates back more than nine centuries.

Since I started this business about the crusades, I thought this point might be worth emphasizing.

Sol Invictus ...
 
taijasi said:
Since this will disappear anyway, now that the prevailing christian sentiment shall rule the day ... let's just remember whose history of tearing down who is greater:

Crusades
Inquisition
Witch Hunts

... all of which continues to this very day. To wit: You don't just have to play along nicely, the ongoing feeling of victimization on the part of christians - especially fundamentalist christians - which emerges each and every time there is the slightest thing said to challenge the prevailing, dominating view ..... THAT is demonstration enough for me, that there is no real interest in discussion. All that matters, is quoting scripture back and forth, until one turns blue in the face. :rolleyes:


Sol Invictus
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As a baptized Christian who is ashamed of the un-neighborly attitude taken against you, I will be creating a new thread that should illustrate just how far Christian dogmatists have strayed from the charitable path Jesus laid out for us. Please see Who is the Anti-Christ? in Comparative Studies.
 
I feel like i'm going to the back of the school for an after class fight.:D
 
Dor said:
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Sorry I was told to be either hot or cold not lukewarm by Jesus Christ the Son of God, Saviour of the World, First and Last, The Word. So I will continue to wear my faith on my sleeve and respond to anyone trying to tear him down.
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Dor, I am anxiously awaiting your reply to this scripture you quoted.
 
didymus said:
I feel like i'm going to the back of the school for an after class fight.:D
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yah, i know how much you llike to fight with Christians in your postings & try to make them look bad. punish the christians. make them pay!

didymus said:
Dor, weren't these the words of John? Even if from Jesus, this verse is open for interpretation. If one is luke warm in their spiritual progress or their attitude towards God they will not receive the fullness. John says that God prefers that we would be cold or hot. Why would God want us cold rather than luke warm?? I think John was extra expressive in revelations because he was feeling the full brunt of the Roman army. He saw his faith and beliefs being threatened. You can imagine the duress under which he wrote this book.
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that is not what it says. i dont see anything there about recieving the fulness. it says if you are lukewarm you get SPIT OUT. then you use the roman army...like Jesus really needs that to get his words out.

why? because God knows the hearts of men & he knows who really loves him & who is pretending & who is in & out of love. Jesus says dont be lukewarm, but you say it is ok to be lukewarm (you just dont get the fulness). it figures:rolleyes:

i like my beverages hot or cold, not lukewarm. i also like my relationships hot, not cold or lukewarm.
 
didymus said:
Dor, I am anxiously awaiting your reply to this scripture you quoted.
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It means that Jesus does not accept a fence walker, for He can do nothing with him. Either one is angry with or hates, or one is "jubilant" and loves Christ and Christ's ways. A fence walker does Christ no good...

v/r

Q
 
I agree that God would rather us not be luke warm in our walk. My point is I don't take this as a proof that God will damn us for a luke warm faith. When I said the fullness of God I meant the real fruits that can be reaped. If i go about my faith and walk with God in a so so fashion there won't be any real growth. I will stagnate and miss the real blessings and friut of God's love. That was my point. My reference to being hot or cold rather than lukewarm still stands. Why would God rather a person be cold rather than lukewarm and what do you take this to mean?

Bandit, I know you probably mistrust me but I am not trying to disprove Christianity. I like to look at scriptures in a variety of ways. The particular scripture that Dor quoted spoke to me but not in the same way you may read it. I take issue with people throwing scripture around condescendingly and arrogantly with the underlying implication that one will be barred from eternal life with God or relegated to the fiery pit if they don't believe or act a certain way.
 
My point with the Roman army was that John wrote this book after being exiled to Patmos after he had seen his faith and city get sacked and destroyed by the Romans. This book was believed to be written somewhere around 100ad or so. Am I correct? Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70ad. Everything was coming apart at the hinges especially for Christians and their faith.
 
spue in that passage means to vomit. i always thought it meant spit, but it has a stronger meaning to it than just spit. IOW- lukewarm makes him sick & they are vomitted out. as in puke or throw up. i always flush my luke warm puke down the toilet & spit out lukewarm coffe because it is gross.
if one is cold, then he has never entered the love of God to begin with & there is no relationship being had.

John did not say these things. Jesus told John to write down what Jesus said to each angel of those churches. Johns isolation from the world is probably what made his special experience with Jesus happen, enabling him to better focus & write what he saw & heard, thus getting the message to us.

i dont think it is wise to try & walk the fence or be lukewarm when it comes to loving Jesus.

my 2 cents:)
 
I think that lukewarm statement gets abused a lot, as didymus said. A lot of time people use it to mean "if you don't believe exactly as I believe..." I think it speaks more about our passion for Christ. One can be passionate in their faith, but also hold moderate or liberal theological views. Lukewarm seems more like, "whatever..," not enough interest to care one way or another, as Q indicated.

2 c,
lunamoth
 
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