Plots

B

Bandit

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InquisitiveInHalifax said:
I don't think that it's fair to say that someone has missed the plot because they interpretted things differently.

my 2c

-R
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if i read snow dogs & say the plot is about someone learning how to dog sled, then i missed the plot. the plot & foundation is first & foremost.
the plot is a young man who wants to find out who is real mother & father are- not some wild adventure in Alaska.

if i interpret the plot as learning about dogs, that is not the plot & my interpretations are going to be a bit severed. people interpret without getting the plot all the time.

there are subplots that run parallel & do not effect the main plot & there are subplots that do effect the main plot.
what do you think?
 
I think you are labouring a point unfairly. :)

However, to take your point - if Snow Dogs was simply one book in a library of almost 70 books, some of which deal with allegory, metaphor, and direct parable - then if different groups had established themselves other the centuries, that saw different levels of these at work in the plot of Snow Dogs itself, then it would seem somewhat unfair to determine that such viewpoints were invalidated simply by way of being different. :)

However, reading a book is a personal experience, and different people find different meanings in the same book.

Snow Dogs is no different - if I am an estranged father, I may find that section has greatest meaning for me -if I have a great love of dogs, then those sections with the Huskys may have most meaning for me - if I have a great ove of the outdoors, then the descriptions of Alaska may have most meaning for me - and if I were a sportsperson, the aspect of the sled race and trying to win it may have most meaning for me.

At the end of the day, regardless of the different meanings people may focus on, the most important meaning is that which you personally found. Whether you wish to entertain the other meanings other people found, is again, a personal matter.

Hope that helps. :)
 
At the end of the day, regardless of the different meanings people may focus on, the most important meaning is that which you personally found. Whether you wish to entertain the other meanings other people found, is again, a personal matter.
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What do I think?

See above.
 
I said:
I think you are labouring a point unfairly. :)

However, to take your point - if Snow Dogs was simply one book in a library of almost 70 books, some of which deal with allegory, metaphor, and direct parable - then if different groups had established themselves other the centuries, that saw different levels of these at work in the plot of Snow Dogs itself, then it would seem somewhat unfair to determine that such viewpoints were invalidated simply by way of being different. :)

However, reading a book is a personal experience, and different people find different meanings in the same book.

Snow Dogs is no different - if I am an estranged father, I may find that section has greatest meaning for me -if I have a great love of dogs, then those sections with the Huskys may have most meaning for me - if I have a great ove of the outdoors, then the descriptions of Alaska may have most meaning for me - and if I were a sportsperson, the aspect of the sled race and trying to win it may have most meaning for me.

At the end of the day, regardless of the different meanings people may focus on, the most important meaning is that which you personally found. Whether you wish to entertain the other meanings other people found, is again, a personal matter.

Hope that helps. :)
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hi Brian:)

i am not talking about the different meanings found & entertainment or special & personal interests for reading something. I am talking about the plot of a single book, not a library of many books with different plots & topics. i aint talking about the bible either.

so, you are saying remove & ignore the main plot & you get the same thing?
remove & ignore the adoption, the father & the mother & his search for his true parents, then all you have is a young man going on a sloppy vacation because he likes dogs & snow. he does not even like snow & he is not on vacation, Brian.
that is not the reason or plot for going to alaska, regardless of what people choose to see in it & what they choose not to see.

he went to alaska to find his real parents...not to sled on snow.

if i am reading snow dogs to learn about dogs & sledding & toss the plot then my purpose is different...that still does not change the plot of that book. tossing or ignoring the plot does not change the plot given by by the author, just because people have different interests.
the reader chooses to discard & miss the plot & you get the same thing?
then you do not even know why he is in alaska.

when the plot becomes nothing more than a planned vacation to the reader, that would be skipping over the plot & changing & missing the plot & only seeing a subplot, while discarding the plot- you are talking about a different book called Dogs and Snow.
if there is indeed a plot to snow dogs & it aint just about snow & dogs.
if it were not for a plot & main theme, then this underlying importance of the message intended by the author is going to be missed.

& the interpretation is indeed going to change. why? because the plot of finding his parents becomes irrelevant by choice, it does not change the reason for him doing what he is doing just because someone views his purpose differently.

the lead does not even like snow. but one interprets that the lead likes snow, because the reader likes snow??
there is no doubt that it happens. :)

is the lead dog the same thing as the wheel dog?
if one interprets it to be so, then he is not going to be a very good at dog sledding, as we learned.

if the lead was not out to find his father in the first place, (MAIN PLOT) then the father would not exist in the book & the son would not even be in Alaska.

no?
 
The trouble is, though, you *are* trying to greatly simplify the question by applying a more black and white subject matter on a discussion that applies to more grey areas. :)
 
I said:
The trouble is, though, you *are* trying to greatly simplify the question by applying a more black and white subject matter on a discussion that applies to more grey areas. :)
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i dont follow.
plot is a plot or so i thought.
theme is theme. this is like the first thing in writing or reading a story or so that is how i got it from English.

i thought this would be a good thread to compare & learn about plots & how to follow them. i dont want to debate about what a plot is.

i honestly do not follow you. what am I simplifying &
what is the black & white & what is the gray to plot?:)
 
You've started up multiple threads about liberalism and literalism with regards to the Bible, and it would be disingenious to claim that you are not using this thread as a metaphor for this question. Hence why I am addressing that question, and refusing to get drawn into the strawman you've built to relate it. :)
 
that is a real strong & false accusation.
this thread has nothing to do with the other threads or any metaphor.

i am enjoying the other threads i have started, especially in hinduism & i feel the other members here have expressed that also in very thoughtful discussion:) .

i am totally lost on this one.
i kindly ask for an apology.
 
Bandit, you'll need to explain to me why you've posted a question about the plot of the novel "Snow Dogs" on the Comparative Religion "Comparative Studies" board - when you are not looking for a response that has anything to do with religion or metaphor.
 
Bandit,

In your opinion, who decides what the plot of the story is?

Is it the author? How can we ever really know what the author intended?(especially if the author is dead!)

Is it the reader? In which case, which reader is it? You? Me? what if we disagree?

The idea that the Author's intention is either known or relavent is known as the Intentional Fallacy.

After all, a book is just dried sheets of stained wood-pulp until you read it. It only means anything in your mind.

Peace
ATF
 
I agree with Brian in that I think that Bandit started this thread in regards to the plot in the bible (he did get my quote from the Abrahamic Religions board on the Liberal vs. Literal Christian thread).

Personally I feel that it is naive to consider the Bible totally a black & white literal book and therefore it is possible to interpret it and it's plot various ways. I agree that it's most basic and literal translation it is about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ but there's MUCH more to it than that.

If we were discussing the plot of a book such as Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte than the plot of the book is a pretty black & white thing but with religious texts few things are so black & white. I think we can all agree that Jesus did speak in parables and part of the usefulness of parables is that each person can perceive them and apply them in different ways.

My point in making the original post is that I didn't think it's fair to say that one person's point of view is wrong and another's is right. I don't think we get anywhere with that type of thinking. There are many shades of grey and as many points of view as there are eyes to see a point with. 'Opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone's got one'. ;)
 
There are different types of books, and different types of plots. If someone writes an account of Amundsen's journey to the South Pole, it's quite different than a fictional account of a man's journey to find his parents and what he learns along the way. There are textbooks, biographies, autobiographies, fiction, poetry. Each discusses a reality, but in different ways.

I think that the Bible is more like poetry. The subject being treated is a real experience, but in large part it is purposely being conveyed in metaphorical and/or sacred language.

2 c,
lunamoth
 
bandit,

Uh. I don't think that it's stretching anything to see a causal relationship between the "literal vs liberal" thread in the Christianity forum, wherein you put everyone on notice that you intended to start up similar threads on other religious forums (IMO to prove some sort of point rather than from curiosity), and the fact that you did so, on the Hinduism and Islam boards, and more recently, Baha'i board and here.
 
InquisitiveInHalifax said:
I agree with Brian in that I think that Bandit started this thread in regards to the plot in the bible (he did get my quote from the Abrahamic Religions board on the Liberal vs. Literal Christian thread).

Personally I feel that it is naive to consider the Bible totally a black & white literal book and therefore it is possible to interpret it and it's plot various ways. I agree that it's most basic and literal translation it is about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ but there's MUCH more to it than that.

If we were discussing the plot of a book such as Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte than the plot of the book is a pretty black & white thing but with religious texts few things are so black & white. I think we can all agree that Jesus did speak in parables and part of the usefulness of parables is that each person can perceive them and apply them in different ways.

My point in making the original post is that I didn't think it's fair to say that one person's point of view is wrong and another's is right. I don't think we get anywhere with that type of thinking. There are many shades of grey and as many points of view as there are eyes to see a point with. 'Opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone's got one'. ;)
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we are in agreement here. a point of view is different from the plot. you can have a point of view about the plot, but the plot does not change.
i am glad you joined this thread. & yes, it was your quote that gave me the idea:)

as for the bible, we are seeing the plot together & very much in agreement & yes there is much more to it.
 
Awaiting_the_fifth said:
Bandit,

In your opinion, who decides what the plot of the story is?

Is it the author? How can we ever really know what the author intended?(especially if the author is dead!)

Is it the reader? In which case, which reader is it? You? Me? what if we disagree?

The idea that the Author's intention is either known or relavent is known as the Intentional Fallacy.

After all, a book is just dried sheets of stained wood-pulp until you read it. It only means anything in your mind.

Peace
ATF
Click to expand...

the author. the writer gives the plot. generally you can find the plot on the back of the book or in the foreward.
when you watch something on televison or in a movie, they will give you previews prior of the important parts that include the plot.
the plot could include fallacy.

i am not sure if intentional fallacy for the plot is correct. i am still thinking on that.

if the writer is dead, the plot still does not change. IMO
 
lunamoth said:
There are different types of books, and different types of plots. If someone writes an account of Amundsen's journey to the South Pole, it's quite different than a fictional account of a man's journey to find his parents and what he learns along the way. There are textbooks, biographies, autobiographies, fiction, poetry. Each discusses a reality, but in different ways.

I think that the Bible is more like poetry. The subject being treated is a real experience, but in large part it is purposely being conveyed in metaphorical and/or sacred language.

2 c,
lunamoth
Click to expand...

that is how i see it. many different types of plots & discussed in different ways. in fiction the plot is not a true account, but it could be true to someones experience & they can relate from those events.
a text book would be interesting to examine the plot:)


in science & in the the lab, i believe there is also something known as a plot- as in the layout.
 
I said:
Bandit, you'll need to explain to me why you've posted a question about the plot of the novel "Snow Dogs" on the Comparative Religion "Comparative Studies" board - when you are not looking for a response that has anything to do with religion or metaphor.
Click to expand...

it does not need to be about snow dogs. that is a simple starter example.

i just did a search here on this subject & i sincerly feel it is a good topic. there is nothing on this board that discusses what a plot is. considering that this site discusses many different texts & reading material that would include history, poetry, sacred, non fiction...

i did not know every thread has to be strictly about religion.

our life also has plot.
 
plot:
1. the structure of the action of a story. Note: In conventional stories, plot has three main parts: rising action, climax, and falling action leading to a resolution or denouement. 2. to so structure the action of a story. 3. a pattern of related episodes.
The sequence of events in a play, differs from the "story," which encompasses earlier events (multi-plot stories).


story:
1. a prose or poetry narrative; tale. 2. an imaginative tale shorter than a novel but with plot, characters, and setting, as a short story. 3. the plot of a novel, poem, etc. 4. a branch of literature. 5. something narrated.


theme:
In literature (as well as many works of nonfiction), a theme is the main idea of the story, or the message the author is conveying. This message is usually about life, society or human nature. Not all stories have explicit themes (they are optional in escape fiction).

they are different but need to be present in the writing.
 
Has anyone seen the movie Razor's Edge (preferably the 1946 version), recently enough, or are you familiar enough with it - to give a quick summary here, with focus on plot and theme? I think it would be neat to look at this one. I'm off to eat some birthday cake, but later I will make my best go at a plot summary ... if no one else has posted one. :)

(What I find at IMDB, though technically accurate in terms of the "plot" definition you posted, Bandit, is quite disappointing. Perhaps it is the theme I was seeking. Could we look at the relation between these two? At this point, I would hope at best to catch a glimpse of Razor's Edge as W. Somerset Maugham himself - meant for it to be. ;) Isn't that what you were getting at, Bandit?)

andrew
 
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