can animals choose Virtue?

Really a bold statement Q. Of course it would be more interesting to discuss the premises contained in the article...huh?

flow....:rolleyes:

As bold as your presumption that "perhaps the anti-evolution crowd will try to drown a healthy discusssion on an otherwise important issue ?"

:)
 
That is because "biddies" are hatched pretty much ready to fend for themselves. ducklings on the other hand stay very close to the Hen, for a season, in order to learn how to survive. And the Hen is extremely protective of her brood.

Primates will carry their young and tend to them for 1 to 2 years. They are even known to carry the dead baby for days, trying to get them to move. Almost like, "If I love you more, you'll wake up". It has been noted that a mother primate will go off into the woods and die, of broken heart, due to the death of a baby.

Animals have a body and a soul.

Man has body, soul and a "spirit". That spirit is the only thing that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Virtue, does not come from the spirit, since the spirit is part of God and a gift to man, but not the definer of how we behave (that is obvious in today's world). Therefore the "virtue" must be part of the soul. Perhaps the "spirit" is man's only saving grace, since it seems we are the most destructive of all the animal species on the planet. (no, I'm not going tree-hugger on you). What I am saying is that from observation, of all the animals on the planet, man seems to be short in the "virtue" section. Indeed, rats tend to show more compassion and concern for their own kind than man does for his own kind, let alone the rest of the world.

Even biblically speaking Post, the dogs shewn more compassion for the dying beggar, than his fellow men (by attempting to lick his sores).

I think, that if I were stranded in a forest and had one of a series of companions of similar survival characteristics to choose from to be with me (man or wolf/dog/cat/ape), I would choose the animal.

Why? Man does not care of virtue when it is life or death. Man does not care of virtue unless he deliberately chooses to. Animals do not comprehend death as we do. And by nature they want to be close to man (that is the original design). So their potential virtue remains intact. They want to please the "master" (also by design). Man fights over who is master (very unvirtuous).

Loyalty is a virtue. Man has a hard time learning that, but animals are much quicker.

Life is precious, yet man will let it slip away (out of self preservation), animals tend to try to save it despite the hazard to their own preservation.

Ya know, maybe you are correct, humans choose virtue, but with animals it is hard wired.

my thoughts.

v/r

Q

Although this was posted quite awhile ago, I'm new so I apologize, but I think what you have said, well, I think this is a reason some like myself feel more comfortable in nature than sitting in a church pew... seems closer to god and more 'right' than any person preaching their own thoughts to me. Thank you.
 
I don't think that animals can choose virtue. Humans routinely anthropomorphise altruism in the natural kingdom, but even the "natural laws" are human projections. The fact is that nature is incomprehensible on its own merit. We may formulate tables,hierarchies, and systems that represent and record our observations of nature, but we don't actually have a clue as to its real motivations. As far as we're concerned, nature projects the human qualities we've assigned it.

Chris
 
I don't think that animals can choose virtue. Humans routinely anthropomorphise altruism in the natural kingdom, but even the "natural laws" are human projections. The fact is that nature is incomprehensible on its own merit. We may formulate tables,hierarchies, and systems that represent and record our observations of nature, but we don't actually have a clue as to its real motivations. As far as we're concerned, nature projects the human qualities we've assigned it.

Chris
Lol, then again, we may simply have pets or mascots that "choose" because they already "know God"...and are doing their job to help man...(oohhh sounds familiar).

"Mascots" where I come from, aren't the norm...they save lives and sometimes die in the process. But they follow their "masters'" lead, then lead on their own.

Can't answer for that, especially when they're usually mutts, or caste aways that tag along and eventually become part of the crew.

No, I think you miss the point of animals in general.

v/r

Joshua
 
Virtue

2. conformity of one's life and conduct to moral and ethical principles; uprightness; rectitude.

Thank goodness animals are free of imagination so as not to become victims of virtue.
 
Virtue



Thank goodness animals are free of imagination so as not to become victims of virtue.
Uh? What animals are you referring to? Imagination is the epitome of mine...trust me on that...
 
A dog or a horse for example is balanced enough not to become a victim of virtue
But Nick, by their very nature (disposition towards man), they are very virtuous, and sometimes victim. Ironic, considering one is predator and the other is prey, but when man comes between, they become best friends?...and often save each other?...

Victims? or advocates?
 
But Nick, by their very nature (disposition towards man), they are very virtuous, and sometimes victim. Ironic, considering one is predator and the other is prey, but when man comes between, they become best friends?...and often save each other?...

Victims? or advocates?

Being natural is not being virtuous. Consider the definition

2. conformity of one's life and conduct to moral and ethical principles; uprightness; rectitude.

The dog is just being a dog while we are putting on an act that normally results in the hypocrisy of doing the opposite. What we call virtue is just suppression which lacks understanding and if taken too far is poison for the psych.

I have yet to read a sex educator speak from any understanding about sexual cautions because of virtue and glorified suppression. As a result only a rare few remember the logic behind the cautions and incapable of expressing other than the the usual concerns for disease and pregnancy etc.
 
Being natural is not being virtuous. Consider the definition



The dog is just being a dog while we are putting on an act that normally results in the hypocrisy of doing the opposite. What we call virtue is just suppression which lacks understanding and if taken too far is poison for the psych.

I have yet to read a sex educator speak from any understanding about sexual cautions because of virtue and glorified suppression. As a result only a rare few remember the logic behind the cautions and incapable of expressing other than the the usual concerns for disease and pregnancy etc.
Arguing "semantics" over what an animal may or may not be...is ludicrous. Thousands of years of history concerning animals rising to the occasion to protect man, and man protect animal, and your attempt to place hold it in a status of "natural behavior"?

Sir, you have got to get out more...
 
Arguing "semantics" over what an animal may or may not be...is ludicrous. Thousands of years of history concerning animals rising to the occasion to protect man, and man protect animal, and your attempt to place hold it in a status of "natural behavior"?

Sir, you have got to get out more...

And you must look inward more to verify these things one way or another.

Matthew 6

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

We worry about the right or "correct" image at the expense of reality. But the lily is just being the lily. The lily is able to be real. As Socrates said: "May the outward and inward man be at one." The outward dog and inward dog is the same unless conditioned to be unnatural as in teaching pit bulls to be killers. The dog is able to be real while we are no longer capable of it and compensate for it by blindly accepting societal dictates.

Virtue is just vanity gone mad. It sacrifices reality for image. If person were able to create an image for a conscious purpose, they could create their personality and this would be normal. We however have become our personality and have become an image. Even the image of Solomon could not match the lily.
 
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