Why?

juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Cage!

Impossible on what level? Daily, or forever? Can the commandments be kept, of course.

Having said this, it is human nature to be naughty once in awhile.

There is a hazard here I want to make certain is understood: impossible is not excuse. Do we occasionally fall short?, yes. Particularly if we sincerely know no better.

However, deliberate disobedience, especially prolonged or repeated disobedience, with the excuse that "its impossible to live up to," is not at all what Jesus and G-d meant.

This gets into our animal nature and our spirit nature, and the clash between them, and to which one we surrender and subordinate ourselves. We are animal in essence. But we have the gift of spirit, and the gift of free will in which direction we prefer to lean. Our choices determine our reward, our "karma."
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I'm not sure exactly where I stand here? I'm sure we can avoid breaking 'most' of the commandments by shear will power, except I have problems with one inparticual, lol.

I would assume most men do:

Matthew 5:27-28

27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I don't see how I can NOT fall short of keeping this commandment, juan.

Even so, my point was more about the idea that we 'Need' Jesus to cover our shortcomings, and less about deliberate disobiedience. I'd like to think that I 'try', but in all honesty...I fail often, and I suspect that most people do as well.

~Cage~
 
Kindest Regards, Faithfulservant!
Faithfulservant said:
(G-d) is so awesome so merciful and loves us so much that He gave us a way to atone and return to Him as many times as we need to.. and it is not something that is done lightly.. so we cannot take for granted the sacrifice made for us...

Its a debt paid in advance..
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Just wanted to let you know you are not forgotten. It has been a while, you have been missed. Perhaps I should spend a bit more time around here, if I had the time to do so.
 
Quahom1 said:
Hi Luna,

what does that mean "a broken spirit, and contrite heart"? Contrite heart I think I understand, but broken spirit...I'm not sure. Does that mean being so down in the dumps all we see are stars in the night sky? In other words, can't get much lower? Broken human? How (just asking), can a broken Human spirit be a sacrifice? I know I'm missing something...what is it?

v/r

Q
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It means humility, but it does not mean being a wimp.

Consider the sacrifice involved in fasting:

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,

10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.

(Isaiah 58)
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Kindest Regards, Luna!
lunamoth said:
Actually, the point I was making is that a broken spirit and a contrite heart are the sacrifice.
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Very well. The point I was making was the historic and cultural context. Granted, Jesus' sacrifice regarding Christianity later (over a thousand years later) reworked the whole sacrifice thing, but in the context of when Psalms was written and to what David would seem to be implying...

Nevertheless, we take what value we can from the teaching.
 
lunamoth said:
It means humility, but it does not mean being a wimp.

Consider the sacrifice involved in fasting:
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Hmmm, I've gone hungry before, but it was understood that "would" happen. Do you mean when there is plenty, to go without? If this is the case...what is the purpose? How does that bring us closer to God, and how does that effect or offset the concept of sacrifice?

v/r

Q
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Kinda reminds me of St. John of the Cross and the "dark night of the soul."

Chris
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Hmmm, hadn't thought about that. My first response is that the dark night is something just a bit different, the 'dark light.' Ha! The closest I got to reading St. John was Merton's The Ascent to Truth. But yes, you could be right. My sense was that the dark night is not so much about utter humility as it is about utter trust.

2 c,
luna
 
Quahom1 said:
Hmmm, I've gone hungry before, but it was understood that "would" happen. Do you mean when there is plenty, to go without? If this is the case...what is the purpose? How does that bring us closer to God, and how does that effect or offset the concept of sacrifice?

v/r

Q
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I don't know Q. I'm just sharing my meditations on the subject of sacrifice. Christ sacrificed his all for us. We are to sacrifice our all for each other. Fasting is an outer sign of an inner reality. I personally don't think that one fasts to go into some kind of religious delerium, although things can happen when you get to the light-headed stage. We fast as a small sacrifice to remind us of our dependence upon God, His sacrifice for us, and our obligations to each other.

peace,
luna
 
Kindest Regards, Cage!
Cage said:
27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I don't see how I can NOT fall short of keeping this commandment, juan.
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I'm not sure how to answer you, Cage.

Do I appreciate a good looking woman? Of course. Do I drool over every good looking woman in my mind at every opportunity? Can't say I do.

How many broken homes does it take to learn some lessons? How many ex-wives? How much child support and alimony? Some lessons are cheaper than others.

Not to mention, is a woman solely meant to be an object of desire? I am certain there are some women that play off of that tendency to make some men into fools. And if a man is fool enough to fall for it, he gets what he deserves.

Eye candy, nice. Odds are, you can't afford it. Look sure, but why even think about touching?

Even so, my point was more about the idea that we 'Need' Jesus to cover our shortcomings, and less about deliberate disobiedience. I'd like to think that I 'try', but in all honesty...I fail often, and I suspect that most people do as well.
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I am not in the habit of suggesting someone read the Bible. Around here it just seems, a bit aggressive. But you are seeking, and you are asking probing questions. Read the book of Ecclesiastes, then let's talk. Especially the part about not being overly wise or sinning too much, or doing foolish things.
 
lunamoth said:
Hmmm, hadn't thought about that. My first response is that the dark night is something just a bit different, the 'dark light.' Ha! The closest I got to reading St. John was Merton's The Ascent to Truth. But yes, you could be right. My sense was that the dark night is not so much about utter humility as it is about utter trust.

2 c,
luna
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Hmm, maybe you're right. I was kinda free-associating.

Chris
 
The interesting thing about fasting is that you realize with extreme clarity that were God to withdraw his blessings (et al) for even a short time the results would be painful. (Again with the dependance)
 
China Cat said:
Ah, dueling texts (insert banjo music).

But you see Mr./Mrs./Miss Prober, the keeping of the commandments is accomplished through the love of neighbor. Isn't that what the text is saying?

Chris
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Prober said:
To the contrary - the love of one's fellow man is the DEMONSTRATION of one's love to God, with the keeping of the commandments...(Mr. Prober)
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Take three! Love of one's neighbor is accomplished because of and through the love of God.

nar nar- nar nar -nar nar nar nar nar....

luna (Ms. Moth)
 
=Cage said:
27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I don't see how I can NOT fall short of keeping this commandment, juan
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I think it comes down to intent and motive. Do you really intend to bed this woman, or are you just admiring and/or fantasizing about her? Lust isn't just entertaining fantasies about someone who isn't your wife. Most times the thought is just as good as the thrill! I mean, is it really your intent to put out all the effort it would take to get her in the sack, or are you just fantasizing? That, to me is the crux of the biscuit.

I like some eye candy too, but what's far more important, and what I really want is to make my marriage work and give my kids the advantage of growing up with a mommy and daddy who live together and love each other. It's not that hard to keep it in my pants.

Chris

 
lunamoth said:
Take three! Love of one's neighbor is accomplished because of and through the love of God.

nar nar- nar nar -nar nar nar nar nar....

luna (aka Ms. Moth)
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Hey, who's the Bible scholar here?!:)

Chris
 
Just an aside: Isn't it interesting how, on some rare occasions, you get to a kind of critical mass where a thread just starts humming for a magical little moment. This has been really fun. What fine conversation! What a feast of friends!

Chris
 
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