Jewish belifes
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Karimarie
Live without fear
Zaakir said:
There isn't one Jewish concept of God... There are in fact several different ideas. Each individual Jew has his or her own understanding of what God is. Judaism isn't monolithic and it has very little in terms of set beliefs regarding the nature of God.
God is impersonal, beyond all human comprehension. The idea that God is a trinity is nonsense in the scope of Judaism because God is One, not three. God cannot 'have a son', because that would mean creating another god, which would violate the central principle of monotheism.
Seeker_of_truth
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Amir
Member
Peace be upon you all,
I am new to this site. I am Amir. I am very interested in the Jewish faith. My particular questions are in regard to the Law:
Is anyone able to keep the law perfectly? If no how does one atone for the mistakes that inevitably come upon us in life?
There is a mulititude of beliefs in the after life? I never knew this.
Please elaborate a little for me in your spare time.
That is it for now I suppose. I had a few but I lost them. I will try again when they come to me. Peace be upon you all.
Amir
I am new to this site. I am Amir. I am very interested in the Jewish faith. My particular questions are in regard to the Law:
Is anyone able to keep the law perfectly? If no how does one atone for the mistakes that inevitably come upon us in life?
There is a mulititude of beliefs in the after life? I never knew this.
Please elaborate a little for me in your spare time. That is it for now I suppose. I had a few but I lost them. I will try again when they come to me. Peace be upon you all.
Amir
Hey Amir. Welcome to C-R.com.
Well, part of what is laid out in halachah is the methods for atonement. There are two categories of sin, sins against man and sins against God. For sins against man we must first seek forgiveness from the person we've wronged, make good on anything we must make good on, before that's taken care of. Sins against God are a little simpler, since there isn't the same need to seek out an individual that you have wronged. Instead you just have to seek forgiveness from God.
Well, the Tanach, the Jewish Scriptures, don't discuss the afterlife very much. The Talmud does discuss it a bit, but it's more or less considered inspired conjecture, if you will. And there are other texts that discuss it as well, and can go in very different directions. The biggest thing is that the afterlife isn't a big focus in Judaism. This life is. If you're interested in more specific information about some different Jewish afterlife beliefs, one of them is that when people die, there are two places, gehenna and gan eden. Gehenna is a temporary place of transformation. It is like a sword being tempered, perhaps by experiencing in some way all the harm it has caused in life, so that it can go to gan eden, which is some type of paradise. If the soul cannot be tempered, then it is extinguished. Another idea is reincarnation. As it occurs traditionally in Judaism, it's a little different from the Eastern ideas. Essentially you could get reincarnated into a certain form as punishment for the way you've lived. But it's a similar idea of potential cycles of reincarnation. So those are two examples.
Dauer
Well, part of what is laid out in halachah is the methods for atonement. There are two categories of sin, sins against man and sins against God. For sins against man we must first seek forgiveness from the person we've wronged, make good on anything we must make good on, before that's taken care of. Sins against God are a little simpler, since there isn't the same need to seek out an individual that you have wronged. Instead you just have to seek forgiveness from God.
Well, the Tanach, the Jewish Scriptures, don't discuss the afterlife very much. The Talmud does discuss it a bit, but it's more or less considered inspired conjecture, if you will. And there are other texts that discuss it as well, and can go in very different directions. The biggest thing is that the afterlife isn't a big focus in Judaism. This life is. If you're interested in more specific information about some different Jewish afterlife beliefs, one of them is that when people die, there are two places, gehenna and gan eden. Gehenna is a temporary place of transformation. It is like a sword being tempered, perhaps by experiencing in some way all the harm it has caused in life, so that it can go to gan eden, which is some type of paradise. If the soul cannot be tempered, then it is extinguished. Another idea is reincarnation. As it occurs traditionally in Judaism, it's a little different from the Eastern ideas. Essentially you could get reincarnated into a certain form as punishment for the way you've lived. But it's a similar idea of potential cycles of reincarnation. So those are two examples.
Dauer
Amir
Member
Peace Dauer,
Thanks for the post. Your faith is very interesting to me. I always though and it's because I never bothered to look into the Jewish faith that it was monolithic. That all the beliefs were pretty much the same. What is your particular view on the afterlife. I know it's from your back ground and all but I am interested. Why? Well, tell you the truth I have been on the spiritual walk for some time now. Perhaps 10 yrs or so. I have looked at Christianity, Islam and now the Jewish faith. My wife has been feeling that perhaps she may convert to the Jewish faith if its possible that is which is why I have looked into the faith myself. I read a book why the Jews rejected Jesus. It put some things in very good perspective to me. Thanks Dauer for your help. Enjoy your day.
Amir
Thanks for the post. Your faith is very interesting to me. I always though and it's because I never bothered to look into the Jewish faith that it was monolithic. That all the beliefs were pretty much the same. What is your particular view on the afterlife. I know it's from your back ground and all but I am interested. Why? Well, tell you the truth I have been on the spiritual walk for some time now. Perhaps 10 yrs or so. I have looked at Christianity, Islam and now the Jewish faith. My wife has been feeling that perhaps she may convert to the Jewish faith if its possible that is which is why I have looked into the faith myself. I read a book why the Jews rejected Jesus. It put some things in very good perspective to me. Thanks Dauer for your help. Enjoy your day.
Amir
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
Hello, all-
I thought this might be as good a place as a new thread would be to ask for resources.
I know I asked for some resources in spring of 2006, but in the two moves since then I've lost a lot of my notes and I can't seem to get the post to come up by clicking on it from my user profile (it just brings up the error screen).
At any rate:
Good online resources for the basics of Jewish beliefs?
Good text commentaries, books, etc. regarding the interpretation of the scriptures? Good translations of the scriptures?
I'm in the odd position of being Christian (well, sort of- depends who you ask ) but finding that so far most of what I've come to in reading the Bible and praying to God for guidance is more aligned with Jewish beliefs than orthodox Christian ones.
I'm interested in furthering my understanding of Judaism as much as possible. I think partially what gets me is the question of how much, as a follower of Christ, I'm supposed to be following Judaism versus how much, as a Gentile, I wasn't created to be Jewish. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but there you have it.
I have seen Christ's work in my own life, so that's why I'm a Christian, but a lot of the doctrine has not been what I've been led to in my study of the scriptures. Any help is much appreciated- and thank you in advance.
I thought this might be as good a place as a new thread would be to ask for resources.
I know I asked for some resources in spring of 2006, but in the two moves since then I've lost a lot of my notes and I can't seem to get the post to come up by clicking on it from my user profile (it just brings up the error screen).
At any rate:
Good online resources for the basics of Jewish beliefs?
Good text commentaries, books, etc. regarding the interpretation of the scriptures? Good translations of the scriptures?
I'm in the odd position of being Christian (well, sort of- depends who you ask
) but finding that so far most of what I've come to in reading the Bible and praying to God for guidance is more aligned with Jewish beliefs than orthodox Christian ones.I'm interested in furthering my understanding of Judaism as much as possible. I think partially what gets me is the question of how much, as a follower of Christ, I'm supposed to be following Judaism versus how much, as a Gentile, I wasn't created to be Jewish. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but there you have it.
I have seen Christ's work in my own life, so that's why I'm a Christian, but a lot of the doctrine has not been what I've been led to in my study of the scriptures. Any help is much appreciated- and thank you in advance.
Amir,
Yeah, truth be told it's far from it, and that's before we even get to the denominational differences. Most of the theology is interchangeable in any of the denominations. The things that separate them are generally some key differences of opinion on things like revelation, authority, and for more of the denominations it's really about how they've reacted to the Enlightenment that separates them. That's what generally creates a change in views on things like revelation, covenant, authority, etc.
To be honest, when it comes to the afterlife I'm a complete agnostic "I'll find out when I get there" kind of person. Sometimes I think it's interesting to wonder about, but I really have no expectations.
You're welcome. Good luck on your search.
path,
There are a few. Many people will invariably point you to
http://www.jewfaq.org
I am less fond of this site because it is written by one individual from one particular viewpoint (in this case Orthodox.) But for basic information it's not terrible, just a bit uneven, in some places much more than others. My first recommendation to people is always
http://www.myjewishlearning.com
It's a very big site, and for that reason a little more difficult to navigate than jewfaq (although if you do their guided learning, it's pretty simple to follow from one essay to the next) and features authors from all denominations. Often the essays are excerpted directly from books. They have information on everything from medieval commentators to the origins of kabbalah to modern rituals to recipes for Jewish food from around the world.
Those two sites should cover all the basics.
For tex commentary, books etc, and translations of scripture, first web info. Myjewishlearning has commentary on the weekly torah portion from all denominations. I actually can copy a bunch of links from a thread in the parsha project to here that can prove useful for text commentary/study.
Now for books, one of the best I think not just for learning to approach Tanach but also for Talmud, Midrash, Medieval Bible Commentary, Medieval Jewish Philosophy, Kabbalistic Texts, Teachings of the Hasidic Masters, and Prayers and the Prayerbook, is:
http://www.amazon.com/Back-Sources-..._bbs_sr_1/104-6730646-8042361?ie=UTF8&s=books
It's put together by the Conservative movement and is simply fantastic, honoring a modern view of text while still doing justice to traditional approaches. Simply one of the best things out there imo.
For translations I'd go with either/and/or the Fox Translation or the new JPS translation.
Fox may eventually do the entire Tanach. The largest chunk afaik that he's done so far is the Torah.
http://www.amazon.com/Five-Books-Mo..._bbs_sr_1/104-6730646-8042361?ie=UTF8&s=books
Just a wonderful translation. Although of course it's still a translation, but the music of it is beautiful. And you get commentary with that one as well, modern as opposed to traditional in that case.
The JPS translation is really a very good, more standard translation than Fox's is. Very little commentary though. Just some footnotes at the bottom of the pages. If you want the JPS translation with some more commentary, you might try the Jewish Study Bible:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195297512/ref=pd_cp_b_title/104-6730646-8042361
Or, with the same translation and somewhat different, more varied (including more of the traditional type) commentary (that only covers the Torah and haftarah portions), etc chayyim chumash:
http://www.amazon.com/Etz-Hayim-Com...=pd_bbs_1/104-6730646-8042361?ie=UTF8&s=books
Hope that helps.
Dauer
Yeah, truth be told it's far from it, and that's before we even get to the denominational differences. Most of the theology is interchangeable in any of the denominations. The things that separate them are generally some key differences of opinion on things like revelation, authority, and for more of the denominations it's really about how they've reacted to the Enlightenment that separates them. That's what generally creates a change in views on things like revelation, covenant, authority, etc.
To be honest, when it comes to the afterlife I'm a complete agnostic "I'll find out when I get there" kind of person. Sometimes I think it's interesting to wonder about, but I really have no expectations.
You're welcome. Good luck on your search.
path,
There are a few. Many people will invariably point you to
http://www.jewfaq.org
I am less fond of this site because it is written by one individual from one particular viewpoint (in this case Orthodox.) But for basic information it's not terrible, just a bit uneven, in some places much more than others. My first recommendation to people is always
http://www.myjewishlearning.com
It's a very big site, and for that reason a little more difficult to navigate than jewfaq (although if you do their guided learning, it's pretty simple to follow from one essay to the next) and features authors from all denominations. Often the essays are excerpted directly from books. They have information on everything from medieval commentators to the origins of kabbalah to modern rituals to recipes for Jewish food from around the world.
Those two sites should cover all the basics.
For tex commentary, books etc, and translations of scripture, first web info. Myjewishlearning has commentary on the weekly torah portion from all denominations. I actually can copy a bunch of links from a thread in the parsha project to here that can prove useful for text commentary/study.
Now for books, one of the best I think not just for learning to approach Tanach but also for Talmud, Midrash, Medieval Bible Commentary, Medieval Jewish Philosophy, Kabbalistic Texts, Teachings of the Hasidic Masters, and Prayers and the Prayerbook, is:
http://www.amazon.com/Back-Sources-..._bbs_sr_1/104-6730646-8042361?ie=UTF8&s=books
It's put together by the Conservative movement and is simply fantastic, honoring a modern view of text while still doing justice to traditional approaches. Simply one of the best things out there imo.
For translations I'd go with either/and/or the Fox Translation or the new JPS translation.
Fox may eventually do the entire Tanach. The largest chunk afaik that he's done so far is the Torah.
http://www.amazon.com/Five-Books-Mo..._bbs_sr_1/104-6730646-8042361?ie=UTF8&s=books
Just a wonderful translation. Although of course it's still a translation, but the music of it is beautiful. And you get commentary with that one as well, modern as opposed to traditional in that case.
The JPS translation is really a very good, more standard translation than Fox's is. Very little commentary though. Just some footnotes at the bottom of the pages. If you want the JPS translation with some more commentary, you might try the Jewish Study Bible:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195297512/ref=pd_cp_b_title/104-6730646-8042361
Or, with the same translation and somewhat different, more varied (including more of the traditional type) commentary (that only covers the Torah and haftarah portions), etc chayyim chumash:
http://www.amazon.com/Etz-Hayim-Com...=pd_bbs_1/104-6730646-8042361?ie=UTF8&s=books
Hope that helps.
Dauer
hi...just wandering, what do the jews beleive the messiah will be because i read on this thread that you dont beleive you have to be saved by anyone,which i agree with its only ourselves we need saving from really!its just i dont get why christians suddenly beleived jesus was the son of God...i thought judaism didnt teach this,as itd be blasphemous in judaism?also..why cant anyone just convert to judaism.i read something about only certain people as theyre Gods chosen ones...what about all non jews,do we not get a chance in your view?...thanks..i hope someone can answer my q's...when answering the jesus one, i know alot of christians quote to isiah in the old testament that says his name will be emmanuel (meaning God with us) obviously the torah wont have it in latin word,so what does the torah say,does it say this..if so do you think it means the way they portrayed it as God on earth?
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
Thank you so much, Dauer!
Hi Zaakir.
The traditional belief is that the moshiach will be a descendant of David who will reinstitute the Davidic monarchy, bring back the Sanhedrin, rebuild the Temple, bring world peace, and a few other things, but not be supernatural in any way, more of an ideal leader, even the paradigm for what a leader should be, than anything else. Other people hold the view that there will be no single messiah, but only a messianic age. Still others suspend belief in either of these, holding a diferent belief about it, or rejecting messianism entirely. In Judaism there is both active messianism (our actions can help bring the messiah) and passive messianism (the messiah will come when the messiah will come and we should not worry about it, because ultimately it's in God's hands.) The active type is found much more in mysticism than anywhere else. Imo Christianity got a lot of its non-Judaic theology in Rome. If you look at another messiah claimant of the era, who was much more widely accepted and more noticed by historians of that time, Bar Kokhba, you see that he was a military leader, and not somebody offering any type of salvation from sin.
I don't know where you read it, but it's entirely false. Anyone can convert and become a Jew. We just don't evangelize. We don't try to convert people to Judaism or spread its message. However there really isn't a need for everyone to become Jewish anyway, as according to Judaism the righeous of all nations have a place in the world-to-come, not just righteous Jews, and a gentile who is can be more righteous than the kohein gadol, the high priest, because God's less concerned with what you were born as and more concerned with how you live your life. Traditionally the difference between a Jew's relationship to God and a gentile's relationship to God, from the perspective of Judaism, is simply that Jews have more responsibilities, 613 mitzvot as opposed to 7.
The issue with Isaiah 7 isn't so much the word Emmanuel, as far as the variation in reading, as it is with the word "almah" which the septuagint translates into a word that means virgin, while in Hebrew the word would more likely mean young woman, not virgin. I have always understood this to refer to someone he knew personally.
Hope that helps.
Dauer
The traditional belief is that the moshiach will be a descendant of David who will reinstitute the Davidic monarchy, bring back the Sanhedrin, rebuild the Temple, bring world peace, and a few other things, but not be supernatural in any way, more of an ideal leader, even the paradigm for what a leader should be, than anything else. Other people hold the view that there will be no single messiah, but only a messianic age. Still others suspend belief in either of these, holding a diferent belief about it, or rejecting messianism entirely. In Judaism there is both active messianism (our actions can help bring the messiah) and passive messianism (the messiah will come when the messiah will come and we should not worry about it, because ultimately it's in God's hands.) The active type is found much more in mysticism than anywhere else. Imo Christianity got a lot of its non-Judaic theology in Rome. If you look at another messiah claimant of the era, who was much more widely accepted and more noticed by historians of that time, Bar Kokhba, you see that he was a military leader, and not somebody offering any type of salvation from sin.
I don't know where you read it, but it's entirely false. Anyone can convert and become a Jew. We just don't evangelize. We don't try to convert people to Judaism or spread its message. However there really isn't a need for everyone to become Jewish anyway, as according to Judaism the righeous of all nations have a place in the world-to-come, not just righteous Jews, and a gentile who is can be more righteous than the kohein gadol, the high priest, because God's less concerned with what you were born as and more concerned with how you live your life. Traditionally the difference between a Jew's relationship to God and a gentile's relationship to God, from the perspective of Judaism, is simply that Jews have more responsibilities, 613 mitzvot as opposed to 7.
The issue with Isaiah 7 isn't so much the word Emmanuel, as far as the variation in reading, as it is with the word "almah" which the septuagint translates into a word that means virgin, while in Hebrew the word would more likely mean young woman, not virgin. I have always understood this to refer to someone he knew personally.
Hope that helps.
Dauer
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
Hi, Dauer-
I was reading some of the resources today and came across a website that indicated that the 7 are actually detailed as 66? And then I can't really understand where the 66 come from?
JAHG-USA Official Web Site
I'm a little confused by a few things, especially issues with idolatry. I'm guessing that in Judaism there are diverse ways of thinking about Gentiles that are trying to be righteous and live a life worshipping God. What was of concern to me is that this website I found was quite hostile toward Christianity, calling it a wicked and idolatrous religion.
But Christianity isn't monolithic either, and not all Christians worship the man Jesus as God. We have pretty diverse views about who Jesus was and how he relates to God, and how he is a savior.
I guess I was wondering if the seven laws are generally understood by Jews to be interpreted by people through study and prayer individually, or if most Jews do believe there is a detailed list that prohibits all other religious holidays and the like and would condemn all Christians for celebrating Christmas or Easter, for example, no matter how they themselves understood what they were doing.
I suppose I'm just wondering the majority view on these types of things within Judaism. So much is interpreted by one's historical and cultural context. What was modest 200 years ago may be immodest today, and vice versa (we can show our ankles now, but wearing a corset is immodest). And what about all the many Pagan peoples of the world who for most of human history had multiple gods and goddesses and only vague concepts of an ultimate Creator (if that). Many presumably still tried to live moral, good lives and worship god(s) in the only ways they knew how.
I'm kind of curious if the website I ran across are just sort of extremist (I can find dozens of similar Christian ones at the drop of a hat) or if there are indeed a more complex and detailed list of commandments than the seven Noahide laws.
path,
Judaism isn't monolithic, and a lot of it is interpretation. This is the case for saying the 7 are actually 66. I think it's based on Rambam's (maimonides) understanding of them. We could also say that there is room for other types of communication, contact, revelation, deals and whathaveyou with other people, that are meant for them, and that would still be a pretty mainstream idea. The website you found is from Chabad. They're a group that essentially missionizes to non-Chabad Jews who aren't fully observant to become more observant, and otherwise want to spread the gospel of hasidus, as understood by R. Schneur Zalman of Liadi and expanded by his descendants. More recently they've taken up an agenda with non-Jews by way of the Noahide laws. What they say on those issues shouldn't ever be regarded as "what Jews believe." They are very much in the minority on those matters. I linked you to their website simply because of the commentary they have available there.
As far as how Christianity is viewed by Judaism, re:idolatry, there was a recent thread that discussed this at length:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/christian-idolaters-6059.html
Short answer being, no, Judaism does not view Christianity as idolatrous for Christians. Idolatry in hebrew is avodah zarah, strange/foreign worship/service and is a little more expansive than what the word idolatry might suggest, so for a Jew it would be regarded as avodah zara to attribute a unique Divinity to a particular individual. I'm merely pointing to that Christian view because, on the complete other end, if you just think Jesus was a good role model and said some good things worth living by, a Jew could even probably hold that view without it being an issue.
Well, firstly according to Judaism God's justice is always tempered by His mercy. So let's just say hypothetically that Christianity was some sort of abomination or something (which I would not for a moment truly suggest), that doesn't automatically condemn anyone to anything. And just as a Jew could live, with 613 mitzvot, and break some, so too could a gentile. There really isn't a difference there. So no, most Jews don't believe there's a big list that prohibits all those sorts of holidays for gentiles. And in fact many Jews are unaware of the noahide laws or simply don't worry much about them at all.
Indeed. Some things chabad-lubavitch does are quite helpful, but some of their views are also very backwards. They don't cloister themselves like a number of other hasidic groups, but it would seem like the reason for this is because they are so driven to spread their message.
Dauer
Judaism isn't monolithic, and a lot of it is interpretation. This is the case for saying the 7 are actually 66. I think it's based on Rambam's (maimonides) understanding of them. We could also say that there is room for other types of communication, contact, revelation, deals and whathaveyou with other people, that are meant for them, and that would still be a pretty mainstream idea. The website you found is from Chabad. They're a group that essentially missionizes to non-Chabad Jews who aren't fully observant to become more observant, and otherwise want to spread the gospel of hasidus, as understood by R. Schneur Zalman of Liadi and expanded by his descendants. More recently they've taken up an agenda with non-Jews by way of the Noahide laws. What they say on those issues shouldn't ever be regarded as "what Jews believe." They are very much in the minority on those matters. I linked you to their website simply because of the commentary they have available there.
As far as how Christianity is viewed by Judaism, re:idolatry, there was a recent thread that discussed this at length:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/christian-idolaters-6059.html
Short answer being, no, Judaism does not view Christianity as idolatrous for Christians. Idolatry in hebrew is avodah zarah, strange/foreign worship/service and is a little more expansive than what the word idolatry might suggest, so for a Jew it would be regarded as avodah zara to attribute a unique Divinity to a particular individual. I'm merely pointing to that Christian view because, on the complete other end, if you just think Jesus was a good role model and said some good things worth living by, a Jew could even probably hold that view without it being an issue.
Well, firstly according to Judaism God's justice is always tempered by His mercy. So let's just say hypothetically that Christianity was some sort of abomination or something (which I would not for a moment truly suggest), that doesn't automatically condemn anyone to anything. And just as a Jew could live, with 613 mitzvot, and break some, so too could a gentile. There really isn't a difference there. So no, most Jews don't believe there's a big list that prohibits all those sorts of holidays for gentiles. And in fact many Jews are unaware of the noahide laws or simply don't worry much about them at all.
Indeed. Some things chabad-lubavitch does are quite helpful, but some of their views are also very backwards. They don't cloister themselves like a number of other hasidic groups, but it would seem like the reason for this is because they are so driven to spread their message.
Dauer
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
Thank you very much, Dauer. It was the response I expected, but just wanted to be sure. I skimmed over a lot of the details and they seemed a little... extreme to me. For example, they considered castrating an animal to be a huge offense to nature. But I can't really imagine my male Rottie living a happy (and safe) life if we hadn't neutered him. A lot of the extremes were in the details.
I really appreciate the overall view of other nations, though- a general consensus that people should strive to be good and worship the One God, but leaving people the freedom to remain culturally themselves. I appreciate the freedom of thought and diversity in Judaism and find the emphasis on this life and our connection to God in the here and now familiar and dear to me. Most of the time, I feel led to not "answer" spiritual questions, but rather accept the questions and the mystery, so it's refreshing to read about a religion that accepts the questions and emphasizes a right relationship with God more than theological issues.
As for my views of Jesus- I suppose I'm a bit outside the regular views of Christians (in lots of issues- not just Jesus, which is why some brand me a heretical Christian) but outside the pale of what would be acceptable for Jews, too, from what I gather.
It is a relief to better understand the Jewish concept of idolatry as it relates to Gentiles and to find that a mainstream Jewish opinion would be that as a Gentile, it is acceptable to practice my faith so long as I am focused on worshipping the One God.
I really appreciate the overall view of other nations, though- a general consensus that people should strive to be good and worship the One God, but leaving people the freedom to remain culturally themselves. I appreciate the freedom of thought and diversity in Judaism and find the emphasis on this life and our connection to God in the here and now familiar and dear to me. Most of the time, I feel led to not "answer" spiritual questions, but rather accept the questions and the mystery, so it's refreshing to read about a religion that accepts the questions and emphasizes a right relationship with God more than theological issues.
As for my views of Jesus- I suppose I'm a bit outside the regular views of Christians (in lots of issues- not just Jesus, which is why some brand me a heretical Christian) but outside the pale of what would be acceptable for Jews, too, from what I gather.
It is a relief to better understand the Jewish concept of idolatry as it relates to Gentiles and to find that a mainstream Jewish opinion would be that as a Gentile, it is acceptable to practice my faith so long as I am focused on worshipping the One God.
Correction
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Jewish beliefs about the afterlife vary quite a bit, are not written in stone. So there are a few possibilities for what might happen to someone after they died if they were not ready to go to gan eden, to heaven. They might be reincarnated and live another lifetime, they might go to a place called gehenna, which is a temporary place (no stay longer than 12 months), and their being there would prepare them to go to gan eden. This might happen by, for instance, them being confronted with all of the wrongs they had done in their lifetime in a way that would temper them so that they would be ready for gan eden. If someone was unable to be transformed in gehenna, then their soul would be extinguished. Odds are, according to this line of thinking, that the individual would not be extinguished, would eventually end up in Gan Eden. Of course, as I said before, these ideas are not written in stone. But these are some of the possibilities that show up in Jewish afterlife theology.
Dauer[/quote]
Dear Dauer,
Lets just say, you are the father of all man kind in this world(you're God). Now as a father you see what is right and wrong, now when they do right you award them, but when they do wrong don't you punish them?. I'm not really sure about hell myself, but maybe its a way of just punishing our mistakes in life. We as human love our sons and daughter very much, but when the sons and daughters do something wrong, there will be accountabilites.
By law if we steal, we go to jail. There's a punishment for every things we do wrong in life.
So what I'm trying to say is, if we do wrong unto God don't we get punish somehow? Whats the point of keeping a log book about the mistake I make if I'm not gonna pay for it?
If I offended anyone, I apoligize.
Thank you.
Corr,
In Judaism we believe that God is just, but we also believe that God is merciful. What kind of father would spank his child for eternity? Also, what is the purpose of punishment? Is it really a way to "get back" at someone, is it about meting out punishment blow for blow, or in its truest form is it really a learning experience that teaches the child they have wronged, to feel bad about it, and to commit never to do it again? That is why you see concepts like reincarnation, where one is sent for example into the body of a particular animal related to things that one has done in life, or gehenna, where one must go through certain experiences, perhaps experiencing the pain one has caused other people in life, in order to to temper oneself so that one might be ready for gan eden. But what kind of God would damn someone to eternal suffering? I just can't equate such a thing with any benevolent concept of God.
Dauer
In Judaism we believe that God is just, but we also believe that God is merciful. What kind of father would spank his child for eternity? Also, what is the purpose of punishment? Is it really a way to "get back" at someone, is it about meting out punishment blow for blow, or in its truest form is it really a learning experience that teaches the child they have wronged, to feel bad about it, and to commit never to do it again? That is why you see concepts like reincarnation, where one is sent for example into the body of a particular animal related to things that one has done in life, or gehenna, where one must go through certain experiences, perhaps experiencing the pain one has caused other people in life, in order to to temper oneself so that one might be ready for gan eden. But what kind of God would damn someone to eternal suffering? I just can't equate such a thing with any benevolent concept of God.
Dauer
Correction
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In Judaism we believe that God is just, but we also believe that God is merciful. What kind of father would spank his child for eternity? Also, what is the purpose of punishment? Is it really a way to "get back" at someone, is it about meting out punishment blow for blow, or in its truest form is it really a learning experience that teaches the child they have wronged, to feel bad about it, and to commit never to do it again? That is why you see concepts like reincarnation, where one is sent for example into the body of a particular animal related to things that one has done in life, or gehenna, where one must go through certain experiences, perhaps experiencing the pain one has caused other people in life, in order to to temper oneself so that one might be ready for gan eden. But what kind of God would damn someone to eternal suffering? I just can't equate such a thing with any benevolent concept of God.
Dauer[/quote]
Dauer,
I always feel the way you have explain that there shouldn't be or isn't a hell. I ask this question to myself also, that if God love his people so much why torment them at the end? I wanna feel safe that even though I make mistake, I will not burn in hell for the rest of my eternal life. Thanks for the quick answer.
Cor.
Dauer[/quote]
Dauer,
I always feel the way you have explain that there shouldn't be or isn't a hell. I ask this question to myself also, that if God love his people so much why torment them at the end? I wanna feel safe that even though I make mistake, I will not burn in hell for the rest of my eternal life. Thanks for the quick answer.
Cor.