The presence of evil

Quahom1 said:
God does not contain the absense of anything. Therefore the absense of "good" is not possible for God. The Laws of physics make this quite clear.

Q
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just wonder whether God has to fit in with the laws of physics. Or should I say, the laws of physics as far as we know them.
I believe I am correct in saying that the laws of physics state that a bumblebee cannot fly. How much more will God defy these laws?
 
cavalier said:
Q
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just wonder whether God has to fit in with the laws of physics. Or should I say, the laws of physics as far as we know them.
I believe I am correct in saying that the laws of physics state that a bumblebee cannot fly. How much more will God defy these laws?

lol, no, we say a Bumble bee can not fly...try telling the bee that. ;)

I was just using physics as a an anlalogy, not trying to box God into a corner.

v/r

Q
 
:confused:Philosophically speaking, evil cannot be "present," since evil is a lack, a privation. That is, something that should be there is not. This does not deny the very real power of evil, since a vacuum can cause a very destructive implosion.

In Christianity, evil is explained by Original Sin, a primal defection from perfection. Cardinal Newman presents a powerful evocaton of this doctrine:


"Starting then with the being of a God, (which, as I have said, is as certain to me as the certainty of my own existence, though when I try to put the grounds of that certainty into logical shape I find a difficulty in doing so in mood and figure to my satisfaction,) I look out of myself into the world of men, and there I see a sight which fills me with unspeakable distress. The world seems simply to give the lie to that great truth, of which my whole being is so full; and the effect upon me is, in consequence, as a matter of necessity, as confusing as if it denied that I am in existence myself. If I looked into a mirror, and did not see my face, I should have the sort of feeling which actually comes upon me, when I look into this living busy world, and see no reflexion of its Creator. This is, to me, one of those great difficulties of this absolute primary truth, to which I referred just now. Were it not for this voice, speaking so clearly in my conscience and my heart, I should be an atheist, or a pantheist, or a polytheist when I looked into the world. I am speaking for myself only; and I am far from denying the real force of the arguments in proof of a God, drawn from the general facts of human society and the course of history, but these do not warm me or enlighten me; they do not take away the winter of my desolation, or make the buds unfold and the leaves grow within me, and my moral being rejoice. The sight of the world is nothing else than the prophet's scroll, full of 'lamentations, and mourning, and woe.'


"To consider the world in its length and breadth, its various history, the many races of man, their starts, their fortunes, their mutual alienation, their conflicts; and then {242} their ways, habits, governments, forms of worship; their enterprises, their aimless courses, their random achievements and acquirements, the impotent conclusion of long-standing facts, the tokens so faint and broken of a superintending design, the blind evolution of what turn out to be great powers or truths, the progress of things, as if from unreasoning elements, not towards final causes, the greatness and littleness of man, his far-reaching aims, his short duration, the curtain hung over his futurity, the disappointments of life, the defeat of good, the success of evil, physical pain, mental anguish, the prevalence and intensity of sin, the pervading idolatries, the corruptions, the dreary hopeless irreligion, that condition of the whole race, so fearfully yet exactly described in the Apostle's words, "having no hope and without God in the world,"—all this is a vision to dizzy and appal; and inflicts upon the mind the sense of a profound mystery, which is absolutely beyond human solution.


"What shall be said to this heart-piercing, reason-bewildering fact? I can only answer, that either there is no Creator, or this living society of men is in a true sense discarded from His presence. Did I see a boy of good make and mind, with the tokens on him of a refined nature, cast upon the world without provision, unable to say whence he came, his birthplace or his family connexions, I should conclude that there was some mystery connected with his history, and that he was one, of whom, from one cause or other, his parents were ashamed. Thus only should I be able to account for the contrast between the promise and the condition of his being. And so I argue about the world;—if there be a God, since there is a God, the human race is implicated in some terrible aboriginal calamity. It is out of joint with the purposes of its Creator. This is a fact, a fact as true as the fact of its existence; and thus the doctrine of what is theologically {243} called original sin becomes to me almost as certain as that the world exists, and as the existence of God."


As Newman says, evil is a "heart-piercing, reason-bewildering fact." And basically it is not a philosophical problem at all, to be decided by the intellect. It is an existential one, to be lived every moment of every day. One of the best existential presentations of the problem is, I think, the Book of Job. Job bitches and pisses and moans though most of the book, while his friends tell him he is getting what he deserves, and he should just accept it. But Job argues with them. maintaining his innocence, or at least his integrity.


Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
But I will maintain my own ways before Him.


Then God appears and says that Job has spoken truly of Him, but that his friends have not. So much for conventional piety.
 
If God is perfect then God will know that if we were perfect we will try to gain power over God (much like the Devil, who allegedly was the first God made and maybe to closest to power)? Or only one perfect being can exist (forget what i said about aquiring perfection). At the end of the day something made this universe, you either believe it (God) is perfect or not? And if you still question, why don't you just ask him?
 
Azure24 said:
If God is perfect then God will know that if we were perfect we will try to gain power over God (much like the Devil, who allegedly was the first God made and maybe to closest to power)? Or only one perfect being can exist (forget what i said about aquiring perfection). At the end of the day something made this universe, you either believe it (God) is perfect or not? And if you still question, why don't you just ask him?

If we were perfect, we would have no need to be like God. We would understand God's perfect will for us, and we would accept it perfectly. As far a the devil, well he isn't perfect either, because he lacks something...God in his "heart" "being" make up what have you. Because of his ambitions or anger, or jealousy, he was removed from the presence of God.

And because we do have God in our lives, and do hold a place in God's heart, the devil hates us (or has even less love, or no love for us).

v/r

Q
 
Ok, ok... I can't think of an explanation apart from the fact we aren't perfect. Why? I don't know, maybe if we stopped trying to be perfect...
 
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